People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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24 [00:14:43] <foul_owl> Hi folks. Where can I find a list of all options available for preseed.cfg?
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26 [00:15:06] <foul_owl> Trying to preseed the ssid and password. I can't be the only person who has ever wanted to do this :)
27 [00:15:13] <foul_owl> Thanks!
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32 [00:24:32] <ChmEarl> foul_owl, replaced-url
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35 [00:25:38] <ChmEarl> foul_owl, see early_command or late_command
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91 [00:54:19] <foul_owl> I want to set the SSID during the install process
92 [00:54:32] <foul_owl> How would I even do that with an early command?
93 [00:55:41] <foul_owl> I can use sed for example to configure /etc/network/interfaces perhaps? Would that even work during install? Would the path be the same? Does the installed have sed or awk available?
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98 [01:01:41] <ChmEarl> foul_owl: d-i netcfg/wireless_essid string xxyy
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109 [01:07:09] <foul_owl> Thank you!!!
110 [01:07:14] <foul_owl> Where can I find the documentation for that?
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116 [01:10:59] <ChmEarl> foul_owl, debconf-get-selections --installer > file
117 [01:11:17] <ChmEarl> first install debconf-utils
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120 [01:11:46] <foul_owl> Awesome
121 [01:11:48] <foul_owl> Thank you again
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123 [01:12:00] <ChmEarl> foul_owl web search for `d-i netcfg`
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127 [01:14:09] <ChmEarl> foul_owl, your media needs firmware for your Nic
128 [01:14:24] <foul_owl> THank you! I'm using the nonfree netinst images
129 [01:14:31] <foul_owl> Always have to use those
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240 [02:09:54] <empty_cup> i'm learning about NSS, PAM, LDAP, RADIUS, and am amused to find in Debian 8 nsswitch.conf compat used (inclusion of NIS user attributes in local system files)
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243 [02:10:34] <empty_cup> why not files as the default for those entries?
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273 [02:42:27] <xp> Can you guys please point me to a good C programming language reference package that runs from the terminal?
274 [02:43:17] <dvs> what? like build-essential?
275 [02:43:20] <Sveta> a cli version of Stroustrup's book would probably work
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278 [02:44:29] <xp> dvs, does build-essential include documentation for c functions and libraries?
279 [02:44:59] <dvs> xp. ah no.
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282 [02:46:47] <xp> I would like to know sintaxe for C functions and the content of its libraries. If I type "man scanf" I get a good description of the function. I want just that
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284 [02:48:23] <dvs> xp, why can't you use a web site?
285 [02:49:11] <xp> dvs, what if I'm programming offline?
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288 [02:49:43] <mnuhmnuh> xp: i knew a guy who swore by just grepping the header files. no more authoritative force than that.
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292 [02:50:45] <Tom01> use man then
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301 [02:53:52] <xp> Tom01: Man doesn't seem to have pages for all functions in C
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303 [02:54:21] <Tom01> which one?
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312 [02:56:06] <xp> Tom01: sleep() at unistd.h for example
313 [02:56:28] <dvs> xp man 3 sleep
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315 [02:57:52] <xp> Oh, my. That's good stuff
316 [02:58:05] <xp> Man rocks
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319 [02:59:36] <xp> Can man show the functions made available by each standard libraries?
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385 [03:47:39] <will> sup guys
386 [03:47:57] <will> so i go ahead to reverse scrolling direction for my trackpad to natural
387 [03:47:59] <bazhang> debian will
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391 [03:48:11] <will> ...and the damn mouse reverses as well :/
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393 [03:48:29] <will> how do you guys deal with all this stuff
394 [03:48:32] *** Quits: zoolook (~zoolook@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
395 [03:48:49] <bazhang> which stuff
396 [03:48:54] <will> I have a host of other issues which I assume are driver related, but i dont even know which drivers/firmware i should be looking for
397 [03:49:07] <will> when i come out of suspend or hibernate i get a black screen
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399 [03:49:18] <will> thats my most pressing issue atm
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401 [03:50:03] <will> how is debian so large and takes forever to install and doesnt work out of the box with my hardware; yet mint is so small and quick to install, and works flawlessly out of the box?
402 [03:50:33] <will> Whats in debian that makes its ISO so large and long to install
403 [03:50:36] <psychoghost> You need the firmware key
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406 [03:51:47] <will> is this of relevance?
407 [03:51:49] <will> replaced-url
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409 [03:52:15] <tx> will: dunno about you, but my debian ISO was ~120mb
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411 [03:52:25] <tx> everything worked OOTB too.
412 [03:52:28] <psychoghost> It's under the non free section
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414 [03:52:48] <psychoghost> Yeah that's the thing
415 [03:53:32] <psychoghost> My laptop needed it so I used it and everything now works normal
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417 [03:53:53] <will> tx, wut?
418 [03:53:59] <will> where is this iso you speak off
419 [03:54:02] <will> of*
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422 [03:54:15] <will> mine was like GB iirc
423 [03:54:25] <will> 2 GB8
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425 [03:54:31] <will> sighhhh **
426 [03:55:04] <will> I'm ready to do a clean install if i'll get some piece of mind
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429 [03:55:30] <will> I'm running into other random issues concerning my work, virtualenv, pip, that I hope are unrelated to this
430 [03:56:30] <psychoghost> Net installation
431 [03:56:45] <psychoghost> Use the net installation it's like 200mb
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434 [03:57:19] <tx> yeah :)
435 [03:57:27] <psychoghost> Debían is a great distro 🙁 shame you have problems with it
436 [03:57:30] <tx> Requires accessible network connection during install obviously.
437 [03:57:34] <will> oohh thats what that is
438 [03:57:44] <will> i went and got the dvd
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440 [03:57:52] <tx> will: the ISO's work like this..
441 [03:58:04] <tx> Get the most popular / important packages, put them on disc 1
442 [03:58:24] <tx> then sort by popularity, keep going and adding discs until you run out of packages.
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444 [03:58:43] <tx> I believe they are also categorized as well.
445 [03:58:53] <will> ok i had considered trying that, but, the DVD and all the extra stuff it presumably comes with, still wouldnt work with my wifi hardware
446 [03:58:56] <tx> I haven't used them for a long time though, netinstall. :)
447 [03:59:11] *** Joins: f10 (~flo@replaced-ip )
448 [03:59:14] <tx> Hmm well, you might need to give it a try.
449 [03:59:20] <will> I was forced to wait a few days until i could hook up and ethernet cord then install drivers for my wifi card
450 [03:59:24] <tx> Hard to tell unless you have the make / model.
451 [03:59:36] <will> of wifi hardware?
452 [03:59:42] <will> how do i get that from console
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454 [04:00:16] <tx> lspci (probably)
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456 [04:01:25] <will> tx, replaced-url
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459 [04:02:30] <tx> will: replaced-url
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461 [04:02:45] <tx> You could use one of these ISOs, which include non-free firmware (such as Intel's wireless firmware)
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464 [04:03:14] <psychoghost> Yes what TX said
465 [04:03:30] <psychoghost> The non free section what I said in the beginning
466 [04:03:42] <psychoghost> It loads on installation
467 [04:03:49] <will> awesome I'll install tonight
468 [04:03:54] <tx> cool!
469 [04:04:04] <psychoghost> The installer will ask if you want to load
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475 [04:07:08] <Henry151> Hi #debian
476 [04:07:16] <Henry151> can somebody help me with some crontab stuff?
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479 [04:07:26] <AlexLikeRock> hi Henry151 welcome
480 [04:07:30] <AlexLikeRock> questions ?
481 [04:07:35] <Henry151> I want to look at my crontab and see if I have correctly formatted "run this command every five minutes"
482 [04:08:04] <Henry151> the line says "*/5 * * * * /path/to/script"
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485 [04:08:22] <AlexLikeRock> Henry151, replaced-url
486 [04:08:52] <AlexLikeRock> mmm
487 [04:09:25] <AlexLikeRock> remove the " */5 " and write " 5"
488 [04:09:50] <AlexLikeRock> 5 * * * user /pat
489 [04:10:02] <themill> AlexLikeRock: no
490 [04:10:06] <themill> Henry151: yes, looks fine
491 [04:10:38] <Henry151> so, next question, how can I look at a log and see that it has been run every 5 minutes?
492 [04:10:38] <AlexLikeRock> themill, well , last time i do like i say, no matter
493 [04:10:42] <themill> Henry151: assuming this is in your personal crontab not /etc/crontab
494 [04:10:47] <AlexLikeRock> Henry151, test
495 [04:10:53] <Henry151> this is "crontab -e" as user
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498 [04:11:26] <themill> Henry151: auth.log will show it being run; if you need more than that, you'd have to make the job do some logging into a file
499 [04:11:41] <Henry151> q!
500 [04:11:50] <Henry151> lol
501 [04:11:55] <Henry151> oops, meant for the crontab
502 [04:12:08] <Henry151> auth.log ... looking for that now, thank you
503 [04:12:53] <AlexLikeRock> your welcome ;-)
504 [04:13:08] <AlexLikeRock> a small pizza to my home :-D
505 [04:13:49] <Henry151> so, i'm trying now "grep nameofscript /var/log/auth.*"
506 [04:13:52] <Henry151> and getting nothing
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508 [04:14:05] <Henry151> looking directly at the log, i don't see it either
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512 [04:16:11] <themill> «journalctl -u cron.service -f» follow along the relevant logs
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519 [04:19:38] <Henry151> thanks
520 [04:19:41] <Henry151> i see it there
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522 [04:20:06] <Henry151> now the question is, why isn't it doing what i thought it would do, once every five minutes? XD I'll work on that on my own. Thanks for your help.
523 [04:20:24] <Henry151> one more Q though
524 [04:20:26] <Henry151> what's Sep 03 22:20:01 tb CRON[16523]: (CRON) info (No MTA installed, discarding output)
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527 [04:25:28] <dvs> Henry151, it cannot mail the output of the script
528 [04:25:51] <Henry151> hm
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530 [04:27:51] <themill> Henry151: output would be emailed to the crontab owner -- you need a simple MTA installed. Doesn't need to be complex, just something like dma, nullmailer etc to either drop it in the local mail spool or pass it off to another host
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535 [04:30:18] <Henry151> installing postfix now, but super confused; my confusion is because the script i'm running is supposed to send an email
536 [04:30:34] <Henry151> so I'm confused, because if I execute the script manually, it does send an email
537 [04:30:56] <Henry151> but cron is also supposed to mail me the output of the command?
538 [04:31:01] <dvs> Henry151, ah, the cron script doesn't have a path set up
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540 [04:32:30] <drinks2go> so... can someone just name some alternatives in the same vein as fbpanel and tint2?
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542 [04:33:27] <Henry151> dvs: maybe you can help me figure this out?
543 [04:33:35] <Henry151> The script I'm trying to run is this: replaced-url
544 [04:33:47] <Henry151> it's in a folder that is in my system path
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546 [04:34:11] <Henry151> that's /home/henry/Applications/binscripts/batchargemessage
547 [04:34:39] <dvs> Henry151, there is no PATH when running scripts from cron unless you set one up.
548 [04:34:58] <Henry151> ok
549 [04:35:08] <Henry151> so how can I set it up to work XD ?
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551 [04:35:35] <Henry151> right now if I type at a terminal, anywhere, "battery_charge_message" the script runs, and emails a text message to me if the battery is below a certain percentage and discharging
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553 [04:36:39] <dvs> Henry151, type "echo $PATH" in the terminal
554 [04:37:19] <Henry151> as root, I get
555 [04:37:19] <Henry151> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin
556 [04:37:35] <Henry151> as a regular user, I get
557 [04:37:40] <Henry151> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/home/henry/Applications/binscripts:/home/henry/Applications/binscripts
558 [04:38:19] <Henry151> i'm editing cron with crontab -e as henry
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560 [04:38:25] <dvs> Henry151, put "PATH=<output>" at the beginning of the script you're trying to run in cron
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562 [04:39:01] <Henry151> output of echo $PATH as user or as root?
563 [04:39:03] <Vasistha> Having trouble with my thinkpad built-in mic. Volume is extremely low. I've tried adjusting different levels... sometimes I can get a higher volume with ridiculous noise. Used to work, not sure what changed. Running jessie, alsa, kde, not any other sound stuff I'm aware of
564 [04:39:19] <dvs> Henry151, whatever user is running the script
565 [04:39:47] <Henry151> dvs: thank you
566 [04:39:49] <Henry151> will try
567 [04:39:55] <Henry151> wait five minutes and see if it works :D
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581 [04:47:25] <Henry151> dvs: you rock
582 [04:47:28] <Henry151> it works now
583 [04:47:44] <dvs> yay
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585 [04:48:26] <Henry151> :D
586 [04:48:50] <Henry151> i'm super happy about it too. My laptop will now text me if the battery is belor 75% and discharging.
587 [04:48:57] <Henry151> below*
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590 [04:49:22] <Henry151> if that's not the gosh-darned coolest thing ever i don't know what it is
591 [04:49:52] <Henry151> I feel like I should have it text me about all kinds of other stuff too, but I can't think of anything else that I really want it to tell me
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596 [04:51:58] <gerforce> hello, i have a problem with installing mariadb-server. It prompts: dpkg: error processing package mariadb-server-10.1 (--configure):
597 [04:51:59] <gerforce> subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
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599 [04:52:37] <gerforce> i have searched the problem, but couldn't find a way to solve it.
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607 [04:56:31] <crt8086> apt-get update gets me: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.
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609 [04:56:57] <crt8086> any idea what is wrong, and how to fix it?
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612 [04:59:56] <Vasistha> crt8086: you might start by looking at the file permissions: lt -l /etc/apt/trusted.gpg
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615 [05:01:11] <crt8086> Vasistha: 600
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617 [05:02:06] <Vasistha> crt8086: I don't know what it "should" be but mine is readable by all
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619 [05:02:57] <Vasistha> crt8086: are you running as root?
620 [05:03:08] *** Quits: phoenix__ (~phoenix@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
621 [05:03:37] <Vasistha> oh ... replaced-url
622 [05:03:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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624 [05:04:24] <Vasistha> crt8086: so nothing weird there. you could do some tests using just apt-key
625 [05:04:46] <Vasistha> crt8086: like, apt-key list
626 [05:05:03] *** Quits: AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
627 [05:05:06] <Vasistha> should give you a list of all the signatures (and an indication that the file is ok?)
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642 [05:13:46] <crt8086> The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 8B48AD6246925553
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650 [05:20:31] <Henry151> so
651 [05:20:55] <Henry151> I need an "if blahblahblah then" where it is like, "if there have been any unauthorized login attempts, then"
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653 [05:21:32] <nvz> I got a debian 8 box that the user is telling me is popping up a message in firefox saying a critical update is available and when I ssh in it shows the update, but says its being kept back for some reason when I apt-get upgrade
654 [05:21:50] <Henry151> if grep "authentication failure" /var/log/* then"
655 [05:21:57] <Henry151> how's that sound
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658 [05:25:28] <crt8086> hmm, best i can figure, /etc/apt/trusted.gpg is hosed up. if i rm it, how can i rebuild it?
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664 [05:30:41] <crt8086> think i am making progress. The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 8B48AD6246925553 NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
665 [05:31:07] <crt8086> is the public key missing from the server?
666 [05:34:14] <nvz> crt8086: if you've installed the most updated key package and apt-get updated afterward, then yes its possible the mirror is broken
667 [05:35:05] *** Quits: cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
668 [05:35:09] <nvz> most all archives have a package which contains the keys there is no need to deal with them manually
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675 [05:48:42] <crt8086> nvz: how should i reinstall debian-archive-keyring
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685 [05:53:54] <nvz> crt8086: well you could apt-get --purge remove then apt-get install, but a apt-get --reinstall install may be enough
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688 [05:54:54] <nvz> crt8086: you do however have to apt-get update after changing keys
689 [05:57:01] <crt8086> replaced-url
690 [05:57:13] <crt8086> The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 9D6D8F6BC857C906 NO_PUBKEY 8B48AD6246925553
691 [05:57:44] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
692 [05:58:10] <crt8086> not sure what is going on. starting to think it is something on the server end
693 [05:58:37] <nvz> I just installed something on a remote debian 8 box from security
694 [05:58:48] <nvz> moments ago
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700 [06:01:44] <nvz> crt8086: I don't see that 8B48 key anywhere in my keyring but the 9D6D one is for jessie security
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703 [06:03:44] <crt8086> nvz: the jessie keyring would make sense as to why i am having issues
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705 [06:03:58] <crt8086> not sure what is doing that. old package?
706 [06:04:09] *** Joins: JaceAlvejetti (~JaceAlvej@replaced-ip )
707 [06:04:24] <nvz> crt8086: idk we should gather some information and paste it on paste.debian.net
708 [06:04:30] <cerebro> anyone installed 'jupyter' on jessie from pkgs? (replaced-url
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711 [06:05:10] <cerebro> is it just the 'jupyter-client jupyter-notebook' pkgs that are needed?
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715 [06:09:36] <nvz> crt8086: { cat /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-key list; apt-cache policy } > apt.log
716 [06:09:54] <nvz> crt8086: then choose upload on paste.debian.net and upload apt.log
717 [06:10:47] <nvz> crt8086: { cat /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-key list; apt-cache policy; } > apt.log
718 [06:10:53] <nvz> forgot the ending semicolon
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720 [06:12:02] <nvz> not sure why it needs that, but I do know bash won't understand that if all commands don't end with a semicolon
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723 [06:13:18] <nvz> these are the kinds of things I want to make a program to automate, compiling these logs and making them available for support, the same way reportbug does
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729 [06:17:38] <Blendify> where is a good place to install additional software?
730 [06:17:45] *** Quits: cerebro (~cerebro@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
731 [06:17:52] <nkuttler> Blendify: additional software?
732 [06:18:05] <nvz> Blendify: synaptic or aptitude package managers
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734 [06:18:43] <Blendify> just some cmdline stuff composed of a couple php scripts
735 [06:19:03] <nkuttler> Blendify: ~/local
736 [06:19:40] <nvz> Blendify: if you mean a VFS location for optional packages common options are the users homedir ~/.local/bin/ or for global /usr/local/bin or /opt/
737 [06:19:43] *** Joins: cadillac_ (~omab@replaced-ip )
738 [06:20:16] <cerebro_> '/opt', also
739 [06:21:09] <nvz> I personally use all three for different purposes. I use /opt/ for larger packages like say a upstream firefox or crossover or something, I use /usr/local/bin/ for small things used by all, and ~/.local/bin/ for things specific to the user
740 [06:21:14] <Blendify> what is the best place for a directory of scripts? just put the dir in the bin folder
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742 [06:21:47] <nvz> Blendify: no, use /usr/local/bin/ if it needs to be for all users, because debian packages wont touch any of those three locations I mentioned
743 [06:22:07] <OtakuSenpai> hello
744 [06:22:12] *** Quits: lsv (~nn@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ( ##replaced-url
745 [06:22:22] <Blendify> replaced-url
746 [06:22:27] <nvz> I have some scripts that are in /usr/local/bin/ that also call scripts in ~/.local/bin/ so the user can add their own hooks
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750 [06:23:16] <OtakuSenpai> when i come back after a few mins on gnome de,gdm asks for login password and then the mouse just disappears...
751 [06:23:35] <OtakuSenpai> any help?
752 [06:23:36] <OtakuSenpai> i am without mouse
753 [06:23:37] <nvz> Blendify: if you use a subdirectory you'd have to alter the PATH variable, just dump em in /usr/local/bin/ which is empty by default
754 [06:23:49] <Blendify> ok
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756 [06:24:07] <OtakuSenpai> oh it came back
757 [06:24:09] *** Quits: kchz (~dschulz@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ZZzzz…)
758 [06:24:44] <nvz> OtakuSenpai: I imagine you mean the mouse cursor, because if the mouse is dissapearing you should go to the hospital and get a drug test
759 [06:24:59] <nvz> or an eye exam :P
760 [06:25:04] <OtakuSenpai> ;)
761 [06:25:27] <OtakuSenpai> yeah,it disapears and reappears
762 [06:26:08] <nvz> I think I've seen that before, not sure what causes it, but some machines i believe I've seen the cursor disappear during inactivity. Not sure what process is doing this
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765 [06:27:02] <nvz> I think I'd actually rather my cursor vanish when its not moving
766 [06:27:27] <nvz> I know gpm does that on console
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775 [06:31:33] <nvz> ,info unclutter
776 [06:31:34] <judd> Package unclutter (x11, optional) in stretch/amd64: hides the mouse cursor in X after a period of inactivity. Version: 8-20+b1; Size: 17.2k; Installed: 52k; Homepage: replaced-url
777 [06:32:03] <nvz> this seems to be the most popular method of hiding the mouse cursor, maybe you have that installed. Its most common on machines with touchscreens to do this
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780 [06:34:41] <nvz> OtakuSenpai: gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.cursor active false
781 [06:34:54] <nvz> that is also said to help some people experiencing similar issues
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784 [06:35:39] <OtakuSenpai> ok
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786 [06:36:05] <OtakuSenpai> whts gsettings?
787 [06:36:52] <nvz> well the same setting would be in roughly the same location in dconf
788 [06:36:59] <nvz> that was from an ubuntu forum
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790 [06:37:25] <nvz> it could also be your video driver's hw cursor is the issue, you can revert back to sw cursor by making an xorg conf.d file
791 [06:38:48] <OtakuSenpai> ok
792 [06:39:23] <abulletforfree> I just installed virtualbox and restarted because I was getting warnings about some kernel modules which had not been loaded or installed. After restarting lightdm now just shows a mouse and the login prompt is missing. I have no idea where to start troubleshooting that without a browser
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799 [06:44:47] <nvz> OtakuSenpai: a user with Intel gfx made a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf like this replaced-url
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801 [06:45:19] <nvz> to disable their HW cursor, which may or may not be what's causing your issue
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806 [06:46:59] <abulletforfree> exit
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876 [07:38:35] <crt8086> think i have all the keyring errors fixed. down to: replaced-url
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878 [07:38:50] <crt8086> get this from apt-get update
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935 [08:16:04] <Haohmaru> i'm running debian9 on an old hardware.. i don't shut it down, i put it on "suspend" at the end of the day.. sometimes i can't wake it up
936 [08:16:11] <Haohmaru> any ideas what could the reason be?
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938 [08:16:18] <themill> I normally use coffee for that.
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942 [08:16:46] <Haohmaru> you must be using some kind of special coffee then
943 [08:16:50] <Haohmaru> can i have some?
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945 [08:17:10] <AlexLikeRock> what say log of power.log
946 [08:17:16] <AlexLikeRock> Haohmaru,
947 [08:17:28] <Haohmaru> where is that located?
948 [08:17:35] <Haohmaru> /var/log ?
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950 [08:18:33] <AlexLikeRock> /var/log/pm-suspend.log
951 [08:18:41] * themill wonders what creates power.log
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954 [08:19:03] <Haohmaru> AlexLikeRock i don't have such log
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956 [08:19:30] <AlexLikeRock> search somting at /var/log/...
957 [08:19:47] <Haohmaru> nothing similar there
958 [08:19:48] <AlexLikeRock> power.log foo.log
959 [08:19:55] <Sveta> themill: upower ?
960 [08:20:12] <AlexLikeRock> oh! system-Shit-D
961 [08:20:23] <AlexLikeRock> i forget , they are remplace
962 [08:20:30] <themill> AlexLikeRock: you're incoherently not helping people again. Please stop.
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964 [08:21:27] <Haohmaru> AlexLikeRock do you have such a log file? are you running debian9? do you have old log files from previous versions of debian hanging around in your system?
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966 [08:21:39] <Haohmaru> cuz this is a clean debian9 install here
967 [08:21:59] <Haohmaru> i guess i need to look into the power manager
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969 [08:22:19] <AlexLikeRock> Haohmaru, sorry, themill not allowed to talk
970 [08:22:31] <AlexLikeRock> yes, i have this file
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975 [08:24:13] <Haohmaru> AlexLikeRock why are you advertising something that looks like a different distro via private message?
976 [08:24:21] <Haohmaru> ..when i need help for debian
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978 [08:24:28] <Haohmaru> that's not a good thing
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1046 [09:03:15] <Haohmaru> i don't have pm-suspend to begin with
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1051 [09:04:02] <Haohmaru> i'm not sure what's used.. i am clicking "Suspend" from the logout menu in lxpanel (LXDE)
1052 [09:04:25] <Haohmaru> and about 9 out of 10 times it just works
1053 [09:04:26] <AlexLikeRock> yeah yeah ,
1054 [09:04:34] <AlexLikeRock> you tell us about
1055 [09:04:38] <AlexLikeRock> 15 min ago
1056 [09:04:46] <Haohmaru> AlexLikeRock be quiet
1057 [09:05:18] <Haohmaru> your solution is to use a debian fork without systemd, this however, doesn't work for me
1058 [09:05:33] <AlexLikeRock> no
1059 [09:05:36] <AlexLikeRock> but
1060 [09:05:42] <AlexLikeRock> you have less problems
1061 [09:05:51] <AlexLikeRock> like this
1062 [09:05:55] <AlexLikeRock> bye bye
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1076 [09:13:24] <Walakea> is there a guide on how to make Debian live usb with persistence?
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1078 [09:14:15] <Haohmaru> Walakea if you can't find anything, an option is to just install debian onto a usb stick as if it was a hard disk
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1080 [09:15:21] <Walakea> i found something, but GParted behaved weirdly and did not recognize one partition
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1082 [09:15:36] <Walakea> how do i install debian on a usb?
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1087 [09:18:08] <slax0r> the same as you would install it on a hard drive
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1101 [09:20:18] <Walakea> from bios?
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1133 [09:33:00] <Walakea> if i "cp" the debian iso image on a usb, that will just be the installer, no?
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1135 [09:34:04] <cruncher> Walakea, if you cp the installer iso, yes
1136 [09:34:38] <k_sze> How do I tell whether a machine rebooted "spontaneously" (i.e. not because somebody issued `sudo reboot` or similar commands)
1137 [09:36:16] <Walakea> do i need to go trough bios and debian installer and have the usb plugged in in order to install debian on it with all the filesystem hierarchy?
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1139 [09:36:35] <cruncher> Walakea, to do what?
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1141 [09:37:22] <Walakea> i want to have Debian installed on my usb, so it is bootable and does not touch computer's HDD
1142 [09:37:42] <cruncher> k_sze, you can check the logs for "shutdown", or "reboot", then you know it was inititated
1143 [09:38:02] <Walakea> or to have a persistent live usb
1144 [09:38:07] <cruncher> Walakea, like slax0r said, just use it as if it were a hd
1145 [09:38:53] <Walakea> i don't know what it means specifically
1146 [09:39:03] <cruncher> are you going "through bios" (whatever you mean with that) and have to have the harddisk plugged in when you want to install debian on a harddisk? ;-)
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1150 [09:39:53] <Walakea> i only ever installed debian straight on the PC' disk as a primary OS
1151 [09:40:10] <cruncher> Walakea, so the same now, just select the usb as the "hd"
1152 [09:40:14] <Walakea> so i always went through bios
1153 [09:40:26] <cruncher> why bios?
1154 [09:40:53] <Walakea> i was using installer DVD and had to boot from it
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1156 [09:41:07] <cruncher> ok, so select in bios the DVD to boot
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1158 [09:41:45] <cruncher> Walakea, just do the same, just use the usb stick as the hd to install debian to. I really think all is said with that
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1162 [09:42:10] <cruncher> slax0r said it all already ;-)
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1165 [09:42:32] <cruncher> just be sure you select the usb stick, and not the harddisk
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1167 [09:42:46] <Walakea> ok, i think i would know what to do
1168 [09:42:46] <Walakea> just to remind myself during the installation, how are the disk devces recognized during installation?
1169 [09:42:56] <slax0r> I admit nothing!
1170 [09:43:01] <Kitty> Is there a convienent file I can backup that contains the list of all packages installed on a machine ?
1171 [09:43:09] <slax0r> ah, usb install... yes, I did say that
1172 [09:43:16] * slax0r crawls back into his pit
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1175 [09:44:07] <cruncher> Kitty, no, but you can create one easily: dpkg --get-selections >filename.txt
1176 [09:44:29] <Kitty> cruncher: ok. Where does dpkg get that info from to generate that list?
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1178 [09:45:28] <cruncher> Walakea, what you mean "how"... the names? they can change, sda, sdb, etc.. you will recognize the usb stick in the partitioning page, iirc you can see the size and name
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1181 [09:46:28] <Walakea> whetref i will have to identify it as /dev//sdX or by those long hexcodes
1182 [09:46:33] <Walakea> *whether
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1185 [09:48:24] <Keloo> If i want to creat a ramdisk and move minimal tools to it to shred my main drive how do i determine the tools that need to be moved
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1187 [09:49:22] <Keloo> more like whats the minimum directories to be copied into ramdisk
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1190 [09:50:29] <cruncher> Keloo, you eman you want to wipe your main hd? why not i.e. use a live cd?
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1198 [09:52:51] <Keloo> cruncher: theres a reason for this method any ideas?
1199 [09:53:08] <vlt> Keloo: And what do you want to do *after* shredding the main drive?
1200 [09:53:11] <cruncher> Kitty, from its package list, it filters it out whats installed
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1202 [09:53:43] <Kitty> cruncher: so there's no easy way I can just backup where it get's it's info from ?
1203 [09:53:55] <cruncher> Keloo, so you want to have some sort of shell/os, boot to it to be able to wipe /
1204 [09:54:10] <cruncher> Kitty, i told you the easy way
1205 [09:54:25] <klys> kitty, /var/lib/dpkg
1206 [09:54:28] <Kitty> that isn't the easy way, that involves creating another file, not just a simple rsync this directory...
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1208 [09:54:47] <Haohmaru> Walakea if you can, disconnect the computer's hard disks, and any other storage devices.. use just the device which has the installation, and the usb stick where debian will be installed onto
1209 [09:55:12] <cruncher> Kitty, you can of course backup all the dpkg working folder, but what does it help you, because when you would have to restore... good luck filtering all things out
1210 [09:55:23] <Haohmaru> during the installation, you will be able to see each device's name/brand/model and size, and hopefully you'll recognize the right one
1211 [09:55:30] <cruncher> Kitty, its not only about backing it up, its also about comfortable restore
1212 [09:55:41] <Kitty> cruncher: aye,
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1214 [09:56:01] <cruncher> you dont want to restore from a huge file where you have to filter every packagename and state out, when you can have the list nice and clean with dpkg--get-selections
1215 [09:56:25] <Keloo> cruncher: yes I want to be able to pivot root while my box is running to a ramdisk then shred everything
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1217 [09:56:58] <Kitty> cruncher: it's just a faff to have to run the remote command to dump the state, so I can then back it up
1218 [09:57:23] <vlt> Keloo: And then? Why not just shred everything?
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1220 [09:57:58] <babilen> Kitty: /var/lib/dpkg/status in particular, but it's common to just create a "nice" file with dpkg --get-selections as mentioned by others
1221 [09:57:59] <cruncher> Kitty, you may think its easier to backup the dpkg state file, but like i say, its not because it doesnt help you when you have to restore
1222 [09:58:23] <babilen> dpkg: aptitude clone
1223 [09:58:23] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
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1225 [09:58:25] <cruncher> like babilen says.. thats the file, but good luck restoring the package state from that
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1229 [09:59:01] <babilen> Kitty: The aptitude clone method also keeps information as to which packages were explicitly installed (doesn't treat dependencies identically)
1230 [09:59:03] <Kitty> would be nice if dpkg created the nice file as part of it's every day usage
1231 [09:59:04] <cruncher> Keloo, if wiping is all you want, you can dd it all even without ramdisk... just brutally overwrite everything on sda as root
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1234 [09:59:27] <vlt> Keloo: And there’s `shred`.
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1236 [09:59:30] <cruncher> babilen, as far as i understand, kitty doesnt want to run any program, just "backup files"
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1238 [09:59:47] <Kitty> that said,
1239 [09:59:48] <Kitty> aptitude
1240 [09:59:48] <Kitty> bash: aptitude: command not found
1241 [09:59:49] <cruncher> Kitty, then you would have to have the files created already at backup time
1242 [09:59:51] <babilen> Kitty, cruncher: Typically just run a dpkg and aptitude dump as a cron job and backup the output location
1243 [10:00:01] <Keloo> cruncher: kernal anic ?
1244 [10:00:07] <Keloo> vlt: ^
1245 [10:00:11] <Keloo> panic
1246 [10:00:12] <cruncher> exactly
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1248 [10:00:25] <cruncher> Keloo, what?
1249 [10:00:26] <Kitty> pushing out a cron job to every debian machine, rather than just doing an rsync of each machine is a pain.
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1251 [10:00:31] <Kitty> but if it's the only way forward
1252 [10:00:33] <Keloo> its gonna stop when the kernal panics
1253 [10:00:35] <Kitty> this is what interns are for...
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1256 [10:00:54] <babilen> Kitty: Install aptitude if you want to use it and either create script that runs during your backup or run it from cron and make sure to include its output files in your backup
1257 [10:00:56] <cruncher> Kitty, you are seeing the problem just from one side (backup time, not restore time)
1258 [10:01:08] <Kitty> cruncher: yes and no.
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1261 [10:01:34] <vlt> Keloo: What is going to stop and why should the kernel panic?
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1263 [10:02:05] <cruncher> Kitty, no, not no. You would have to write a script or something to be able to restore all packages from /var/lib/dpkg/status, (filter out names, and state)
1264 [10:02:07] <babilen> Kitty: You can run those commands remotly .. How many boxes does this concern and how to you manage them now in terms of updates and other orchestration/configuration management tasks?
1265 [10:02:15] *** Joins: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip )
1266 [10:02:16] <cruncher> but do what you want...
1267 [10:02:28] <Kitty> babilen: we're moving towards ansible as we reached the limit of what we could do by hand
1268 [10:02:36] <cruncher> "/var/lib/dpkg/status" is the file you were asking for initially
1269 [10:03:01] <babilen> Kitty: It is trivial to create cron jobs with Ansible or similar tools such as SaltStack
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1271 [10:03:19] <Keloo> vlt: when the root files system starts getting dumped it will wont it
1272 [10:03:26] <Kitty> babilen: yeah,
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1274 [10:04:09] <vlt> Keloo: Why? Can you demonstrate that?
1275 [10:04:19] <babilen> Kitty: replaced-url
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1279 [10:04:40] <Kitty> babilen: danke!
1280 [10:04:55] <Keloo> vlt: I will try and dump a machine and find out
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1282 [10:05:13] <Keloo> ill shred the whole sda if you think it will work
1283 [10:05:29] <babilen> If you have further questions #ansible or #salt are probably better, but I wouldn't settle for a sub optimal solution just because you haven't solved the "manage k boxes" problem yet :)
1284 [10:05:41] <Keloo> but its gonna cause issues id imagine trying to shred the shred util etc while in use
1285 [10:05:52] <Kitty> babilen: aye
1286 [10:06:40] <Keloo> vlt: I see i didnt understand dd
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1288 [10:06:55] <Keloo> the issue is i dont want to clone the whole drive
1289 [10:07:04] <cruncher> Keloo, the only issue would be that it stops prematurely as your goal is to wipe the whole drive
1290 [10:07:14] <cruncher> why are you takling now about cloning?
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1292 [10:07:46] <cruncher> which is not the case (stopping prematurely)
1293 [10:07:48] <Keloo> dd clones right ?
1294 [10:07:52] <vlt> Keloo: I will not cause issues. Running `shred` (or `dd`) on a bock device like /dev/sda has nothing to do with files on a file system.
1295 [10:07:52] <cruncher> Keloo, no
1296 [10:07:59] <Keloo> cruncher: what does it do then
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1298 [10:08:04] <cruncher> i mean, yes, but not only
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1300 [10:08:17] <cruncher> or to be exact, you can clone with dd
1301 [10:08:24] <Bock> I am not a device.
1302 [10:08:29] *** Joins: schu-r (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1303 [10:08:34] <kriech0r> morning :)
1304 [10:08:45] *** Quits: m8 (~m8@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1305 [10:08:45] * cheapie puts an "l" between "B" and "o"
1306 [10:08:53] <cheapie> There. Now you're a device.
1307 [10:09:01] <Bock> :D
1308 [10:09:29] <vlt> Bock: Hi! Just wanted to shred you :-)
1309 [10:09:32] <kriech0r> hdparm, disk sleep, smartd ... its a pain >.<
1310 [10:09:42] <Kitty> erm, that aptitude method from dpkg bot linked above
1311 [10:09:49] <Kitty> unless I am misunderstanding, it doesn't work
1312 [10:09:49] <Kitty> search: You must provide at least one search term
1313 [10:09:55] <Bock> :D
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1316 [10:11:00] <Keloo> vlt: So anyway i can find a link on this issue of a minimal ramdisk boot
1317 [10:11:00] <tdn> I have a number of virtualbox guest VMs with both debian 8 and debian 9 running KDE desktop. All have the virtualbox additions installed. However, performance is significantly better on debian 8. Debian 9 is so slow that it is almost unusable. Resizing windows has a visible lag. And alt+tab between running windows is also maybe half a sec to change. Is anyone else experiencing this? The host is a modern quad c
1318 [10:11:06] <tdn> ore intel i7 CPU with 32 GB RAM and all storage is on SSD.
1319 [10:11:10] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1320 [10:11:19] <tdn> cruncher, I did install vbox guest additions on the guest with stretch
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1322 [10:11:42] <cruncher> Keloo, to finish the topic, you can dd it, or wipe it while running, no need for a ramdisk
1323 [10:11:49] <tdn> cruncher, I installed vbox guest additions from the cdrom iso that is provided by the host virtualbox
1324 [10:12:07] <tdn> cruncher, that is vbox 5.1.26
1325 [10:12:13] <cruncher> but of course you are free to do it your way if you "like" it more
1326 [10:12:21] <Kitty> babilen: has something changed in the aptitude behaviour since that dpkg bot entry was writtend?
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1329 [10:12:56] <cruncher> tdn, so the additions are uptodate
1330 [10:13:27] <babilen> Kitty: Why?
1331 [10:13:31] <tdn> cruncher, yes, I believe so
1332 [10:13:41] *** Joins: AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@replaced-ip )
1333 [10:13:48] <Kitty> babilen: well I run the command as described and I get:
1334 [10:13:48] *** Quits: abulletforfree (~abff@replaced-ip ) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1335 [10:13:53] <Kitty> aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p'~i!~M!~v'
1336 [10:13:54] <Kitty> search: You must provide at least one search term
1337 [10:14:08] <kriech0r> anybody has a working setup that puts his disk to sleep for more than an hour?
1338 [10:14:23] *** Joins: sIRwa2 (~remko@replaced-ip )
1339 [10:14:23] <tdn> kriech0r, hdparm -S?
1340 [10:14:30] *** Parts: AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@replaced-ip )
1341 [10:14:44] <kriech0r> all setup but obviously smartd wakes the disk up
1342 [10:14:46] <cruncher> kriech0r, i guess you mean a setup that doesnt write anything to the disk for 1h so it doesnt get woken up?
1343 [10:15:14] <babilen> Kitty: The command is aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' (note the extra space)
1344 [10:15:17] <tdn> cruncher, is this your system disk? That is, do you have /, /var and so on on this disk?
1345 [10:15:25] <tdn> cruncher, sorry, was for kriech0r
1346 [10:15:29] <Kitty> aah!
1347 [10:15:29] <tdn> kriech0r, is this your system disk? That is, do you have /, /var and so on on this disk?
1348 [10:15:45] <kriech0r> no its my storage md array raid1
1349 [10:15:49] <tdn> kriech0r, if something is writing to your disk, it will wake up
1350 [10:15:53] <kriech0r> home and shares on it
1351 [10:16:12] <tdn> kriech0r, but if you seldomly write to your /home /srv, etc. you can put these on a separate drive and have that drive sleep.
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1353 [10:16:40] <kriech0r> understood, currently watching iotop logging all IOs and the only thing that fits the times when the disks are waking up is the smartd -n entry
1354 [10:16:55] <Kitty> dpkg things to backup
1355 [10:16:55] <dpkg> Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/replaced-url
1356 [10:16:55] <tdn> kriech0r, otherwise you will have to go through anything on the system that will write once in a while. Things that logs, crond, etc. and configure those. That will likely be a lot of work
1357 [10:17:37] <tdn> kriech0r, you can disable smartd if you do not need it. You may also be able to increase the delay so that it only writes e.g. every 24 hours
1358 [10:18:10] <kriech0r> smartd has the -n standby,q option but it does not seem to work for me
1359 [10:18:32] <tdn> kriech0r, do you need smartd?
1360 [10:18:49] <kriech0r> its a raid where i would like to know if a disk is about to fail ;-)
1361 [10:19:16] <kriech0r> but i might set it to 24hrs or even 48hrs
1362 [10:19:22] <tdn> kriech0r, another option is to locate where stuff is written to. And if you do not need what is written. You might mount that path as a tmpfs. And then sync whatever is there to real disk on reboot. Or just live with losing it. Please be mindful of what you put in tmpfs :)
1363 [10:19:43] <kriech0r> irssi logs :D
1364 [10:19:46] <kriech0r> haha
1365 [10:19:53] <tdn> kriech0r, put irssi logs on tmpfs?
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1367 [10:20:21] <tdn> kriech0r, and then have a script sync them to disk every 48 hours if you want to really keep them.
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1369 [10:20:23] <kriech0r> just kidding , i was keeping irssi open in a screen session and notices that this is also causing alot of noise on the disks
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1375 [10:21:36] <Keloo> cruncher: the issue with dd is data is still recoverable
1376 [10:21:44] <Keloo> cruncher: i dont want that
1377 [10:21:51] <kriech0r> tdn, so smartd has the smartd.conf file with the lines and timings for checks in it. but i haven't found the location where smartd is triggered. its not in the cron.* folders
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1379 [10:22:03] <cruncher> Keloo, true, in a lab you could easily as its only 1 pass
1380 [10:22:14] <cruncher> thats why i mentioned wipe
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1382 [10:23:13] <Keloo> cruncher: what would the proccess be to use shred or wipe?
1383 [10:23:27] <cruncher> man wipe
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1386 [10:24:15] <Keloo> cruncher: I know how to use shred but you think while my box is running it will wipe the whole thing kernal and all?
1387 [10:24:36] *** Quits: forexample (~mkurma@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1388 [10:24:39] <cruncher> if you are really paranoid so even a lab coulndt get anythign out, you would need something like >30 passes
1389 [10:24:41] <cruncher> yes, it will
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1392 [10:25:17] <Keloo> cruncher: even on a flash drive?
1393 [10:25:31] <cruncher> Keloo, wht you mean with "even"
1394 [10:25:33] <Keloo> 30 passes?
1395 [10:25:55] <cruncher> Keloo, you seem to have an idea of what you want to do, not really knowing the facts behind
1396 [10:26:32] <cruncher> and when someone tries to tell you something, you hold on to your idea
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1401 [10:27:45] <cruncher> i dont know why you said that about the flash drive, but it is basically handled the same as a hd, just its with cells, not magnetic
1402 [10:28:11] <Keloo> cruncher: from what ive read 30 passes isnt used on flash much lower
1403 [10:28:22] <Keloo> cruncher: im just wanting your opinion
1404 [10:28:39] <cruncher> "isnt used" doesnt matter
1405 [10:28:55] <cruncher> its about what security level you want
1406 [10:29:22] <cruncher> of course, on drive using cells, i dont think you need to do 30 passes to achieve the goal
1407 [10:29:37] <cruncher> but if there is really sensible data, you do >30 anyway
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1409 [10:29:54] <cruncher> hell, if it was me, i would burn the drive myself with some torch
1410 [10:30:01] <cruncher> its all about security
1411 [10:30:04] <cruncher> (level)
1412 [10:30:11] <cruncher> so its up to you to decide
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1415 [10:31:06] <cruncher> if its nothing really important, you dont do 30 passes on a flash drive as it wears off the cells life
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1417 [10:31:38] <cruncher> i thik now you have all the facts, find your own level of "comfort" in the "security"
1418 [10:31:38] <Keloo> so your gonna have a torch by your box set up to burn on tamper
1419 [10:31:54] <cruncher> Keloo, again. that depends on your security/paranoia level
1420 [10:32:17] *** Joins: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip )
1421 [10:33:00] <cruncher> Keloo, im just saying you have to read more about security, and choose the right settings for yourself
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1423 [10:33:59] <cruncher> Keloo, but i see you want to have some sort of remote wipe.
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1436 [10:37:34] <BCMM> getting data of a traditional rotary hard drive after a single overwrite certainly used to be possible, but it is not publicly known to have been demonstrated with anything approaching modern hardware
1437 [10:37:54] <rotaticus> u need a fault-tolerant-secure switch ... and a block of magnesium to start with ... also sufficient is a room with only 1 entrance
1438 [10:37:54] <toruvinn> cruncher, do you actually have some sort of experience with data recovery of... data which was "dd'd" with just one time? cause i recally there was a guy who tried various companies and they all said that it was impossible.
1439 [10:38:01] *** Joins: locrian9 (~mike@replaced-ip )
1440 [10:38:15] <BCMM> thus, a single zero overwrite is sufficient unless your potential adversary is the NSA or something
1441 [10:38:23] <cruncher> toruvinn, BCMM, its certainly NOT impossible at all. for a lab even quite easy with only 1 pass
1442 [10:38:29] *** Joins: zeitsofa (~zeitsofa@replaced-ip )
1443 [10:38:34] <toruvinn> cruncher, replaced-url
1444 [10:38:58] <BCMM> cruncher: has it been done on something with even half the density of a modern disk?
1445 [10:39:02] *** Joins: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip )
1446 [10:39:08] *** Joins: super_gollum (~ich@replaced-ip )
1447 [10:39:51] <toruvinn> i honestly wonder, we hear "sure, it's possible", or "nsa can do that", but can they really? and i mean, something more than, say, one sector (or even less).
1448 [10:41:12] <BCMM> i'm not even saying "nsa can do that". i'm just saying that since it's not publicly known to be possible, people who aren't worried about the kind of threats that might know something we don't shouldn't worry
1449 [10:41:24] *** Joins: moozer (~moz@replaced-ip )
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1451 [10:41:55] <toruvinn> hrmf i recall reading something considerably newer than the above challenge, regarding reading magnetic, erm, bits with some sort of ability of determining the past values there, but i've read that it was reliable when it comes to reading like 2-3bits? not more?
1452 [10:42:16] <BCMM> i'd be very curious to read about that
1453 [10:42:59] <BCMM> the theory has always been that, due to imperfect alignment of the magnetic track on the disk, you can often read previous data from the space either side of the track
1454 [10:43:08] <cruncher> it is, why else you think there are standards for governments to use multiple passes, even for low security things
1455 [10:43:15] <BCMM> but that was a long time ago, and with increasing storage densities, the alignment is far more precise now
1456 [10:43:15] *** Joins: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip )
1457 [10:43:18] <cruncher> if they knew 1 is enough, they wouldnt use more
1458 [10:43:29] <petemc> those standards are old
1459 [10:43:41] <cruncher> as a fact, there would be no "-passes" parameter (to be able to select more than 1) if 1 was enough
1460 [10:43:47] <petemc> one pass with zeroes should be enough
1461 [10:44:04] <BCMM> 1. those standards are old 2. what makes you think decision-makers in the military government know anything about computers 3. they have a level of paranoia that is not justifiable for most people
1462 [10:44:11] <petemc> this argument comes up here fairly regularly
1463 [10:44:16] <toruvinn> BCMM, im googling it now, but since google is generally crap for the past 3 years or more and even if you input phrases in "" it still KNOWS BETTER, i might not be able to find it...
1464 [10:44:40] <cruncher> yeah, its a thing noone of use can prove, so better not debate
1465 [10:44:47] <BCMM> their standards are over-the-top because they have to be concerned with adversaries that might be capable of things that are currently assumed not to be possible
1466 [10:44:47] <toruvinn> this is seriously fascinating, i wonder what modern technology can and cant do
1467 [10:45:01] <cruncher> but i know for a fact that a lab you can recover from dd
1468 [10:45:25] <BCMM> a typical user trying to throw away a disk with his browser history, financial information, whatever on it does not have to be concerned about that, and can confine himself to things that are actually possible
1469 [10:45:38] <cruncher> we send harddisk to labs to recover data. now you can believe me or not. End of topic
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1471 [10:46:04] <BCMM> you sent hard drives to a lab for recovery after *what* had happened to them, exactly?
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1475 [10:46:22] <BCMM> nobody is disputing that data recovery labs exist
1476 [10:46:38] <cruncher> after deleting files, and i remember cases of 1p wipe
1477 [10:46:51] <BCMM> was the entire filesystem overwritten?
1478 [10:46:54] <BCMM> deleting files is meaningless
1479 [10:47:11] <BCMM> depending on the details of the filesystem used, overwriting a single file can be almost as meaningless
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1481 [10:47:43] <cruncher> BCMM, of course, thats not what we are talking about, so dont mention the files
1482 [10:47:49] *** Joins: remo (~user@replaced-ip )
1483 [10:47:55] <toruvinn> replaced-url
1484 [10:48:02] <BCMM> *you* said "after deleting files", not me...
1485 [10:48:12] <cruncher> BCMM, yes, but you didnt read the rest obviously
1486 [10:48:17] <toruvinn> replaced-url
1487 [10:48:45] <Keloo> toruvinn: even on flash memory ?
1488 [10:49:00] <rotaticus> melting the disk may work ... have magnesium ready for starters
1489 [10:49:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1632
1490 [10:49:09] <BCMM> Keloo: flash memory is weird and different
1491 [10:49:19] <rotaticus> naaah it all burns
1492 [10:49:34] <toruvinn> Keloo, SSD drives are kinda more difficult, tbh even if you overwrite them im not sure if you can be sure you've actually overwritten the data. remember SSDs use weirdish acocunting to minimize wear of cells...
1493 [10:49:42] <BCMM> Keloo: if that seems vague, that's intentional. the behaviour of the memory controllers that drives them is rather opaque
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1497 [10:50:09] <toruvinn> Keloo, i remember military-grade ssd drives which you could just fry, literally a SCSI command to make the drive burn the flash memory on them ;-D
1498 [10:50:10] <cruncher> toruvinn, true, but you can address the cells directly and wipe so the whole drive too
1499 [10:50:28] *** Joins: Robhein_ (~Mutter@replaced-ip )
1500 [10:50:35] <BCMM> Keloo: and overwrite of a given logical bit on an ssd may not correlate to the same physical memory cell as the original write did
1501 [10:50:40] <TalkingHead> Hey guys, I've just installed debian, and for some reason it's not recognizing my main monitor, and is only using my secondary monitor? I'm using XFCE, how do I get my main monitor to show up?
1502 [10:50:40] <BCMM> ^an overwrite
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1507 [10:51:09] <Hoolootwo> it definitely makes sense, for a certain class of requirements, to have a panic button
1508 [10:51:40] <BCMM> most SSDs come with a "secure erase" command (implemented in the drive's firmware, not in main CPU software). the long and short of it is that you do not know how that secure erase command works or how effective it is, and kinda have to trust the manufacturer
1509 [10:52:16] <Keloo> BCMM: so basically the best idea is to have the smallest sd card you can and shred then sfill right ?
1510 [10:52:17] <BCMM> Hoolootwo: can you pastebin the output of xrandr please?
1511 [10:52:23] <toruvinn> BCMM, as far as i know, most just erase the "accounting" data so that the cells still have their values/bits, but you cant really read them back in, uhmm, meaningful otder.
1512 [10:52:31] <Hoolootwo> why?
1513 [10:52:39] <toruvinn> BCMM, so yeah, you probably still have a chance some of the data could be read, but other - not so much.
1514 [10:52:59] <toruvinn> BCMM, i think you meant TalkingHead
1515 [10:53:06] <BCMM> toruvinn: i'm struggling to see how that's different from that "factory reset" option that basically TRIMs the whole drive, but the again maybe it *isn't* different
1516 [10:53:11] <Hoolootwo> replaced-url
1517 [10:53:19] <toruvinn> BCMM, yeah i wonder :-|
1518 [10:53:23] <BCMM> Hoolootwo: yeah sorry, mishighlight
1519 [10:53:31] <toruvinn> but thanks for your xrandr! ;^)
1520 [10:53:33] <BCMM> TalkingHead: can you pastebin the output of xrandr please
1521 [10:53:34] <Hoolootwo> well, there you go :P
1522 [10:53:37] <cruncher> toruvinn, which would be greatly improved if the drive was encrypted
1523 [10:53:45] <BCMM> Hoolootwo: haha, i like the .wat extension
1524 [10:53:54] <toruvinn> cruncher, erasing an encrypted drive is kinda... i dont do that. HAVE FUN, WHOEVER GETS IT. ;-)
1525 [10:54:01] <Hoolootwo> heh, needed to pipe it to something
1526 [10:54:01] <toruvinn> but then again im not government. ;^P
1527 [10:54:18] <BCMM> Hoolootwo: eww, is that a laptop?
1528 [10:54:19] <toruvinn> BCMM, i'd prefer "take.dat" ;-)
1529 [10:54:24] *** Quits: setra (~setraz@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1530 [10:54:25] * Keloo Lived through an fbi raid where they couldnt decrypt fde
1531 [10:54:27] <cruncher> no, i mean when the flash was erased like you say,
1532 [10:54:41] <Hoolootwo> I have a script to push files from my laptop to my server
1533 [10:55:05] <Hoolootwo> so I pipe to xrandr.wat, and it throws it on the server, and puts the link in my clipboard
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1535 [10:55:32] <BCMM> Keloo: sfill should be irrelevant here. to have any reasonable chance of actually overwriting the data, you should overwrite the whole filesystems, not just the files you're interested in
1536 [10:55:56] <toruvinn> at least since around when journaling in filesystems happened. ;-)
1537 [10:56:05] <Keloo> BCMM: and a ramdisk and changing root to it is not needed to do such ?
1538 [10:56:09] <BCMM> Keloo: there are multiple layers here which could cause your overwrite to not actually apply to the same physical location that the initial write did. you can take care of the filesystem by shredding/dding the block device
1539 [10:56:19] *** Quits: idonob (~Owner@replaced-ip ) (Quit: host lost)
1540 [10:56:48] <Keloo> BCMM: that would be my intention to attack the whole block device
1541 [10:57:00] <Keloo> along with using fde
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1543 [10:57:30] <BCMM> Keloo: ok. i mention it because sfill is meaningless when you've already destroyed the filesystem
1544 [10:57:59] <Keloo> ohh fotcha didnt think about all that BCMM
1545 [10:58:18] <rotaticus> there is no savety ... melt your old disks with the super important files if nobody should see them, DON'T sell them on ebay
1546 [10:58:24] <Keloo> BCMM: so the ramdisk thing is not needed to pull this off on the block device ?
1547 [10:58:28] <BCMM> Keloo: sfill is an attempt to deal with the "filesystem layer" of the mapping problem
1548 [10:58:39] <BCMM> Keloo: force the filesystem to overwrite "free space" basically
1549 [10:58:58] <BCMM> Keloo: what's the "ramdisk thing"?
1550 [10:59:02] *** Quits: moozer (~moz@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1551 [10:59:13] <BCMM> Keloo: are we talking ways to wipe the disk you're currently booted from?
1552 [10:59:13] *** Quits: _KaszpiR_ (quasselcor@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1553 [10:59:21] <Keloo> BCMM: pivoting root to a ramdisk then shred block device from that point
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1555 [10:59:35] <Keloo> BCMM: yes currently booted from
1556 [11:00:02] <BCMM> Keloo: tbh, i think you could just remount the root filesystem as ro and then shred it while the machine is running
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1559 [11:00:18] <Keloo> BCMM: only 500mb of ram
1560 [11:00:22] <BCMM> Keloo: so?
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1562 [11:00:34] <Keloo> BCMM: how much will root take up?
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1564 [11:00:43] <BCMM> Keloo: you don't need to copy your rootfs to RAM
1565 [11:00:55] <BCMM> Keloo: running processes are already copied to ram
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1567 [11:01:11] <BCMM> so you can execute them on the cpu, that's how modern computers work
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1571 [11:01:33] <BCMM> dd will happily keep running after /bin/dd has been erased from the disk
1572 [11:01:45] <BCMM> you won't be able to start a new instance of it, but who cares?
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1574 [11:02:36] <cruncher> BCMM, thats what i keep telling him since half an hour, but he insists on the ramdisk, or likes it very much at least
1575 [11:02:41] <BCMM> i'm just saying to mount -o remount,ro / first, to avoid data accidentally getting written back to the disk after you've erased it
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1578 [11:03:16] <BCMM> cruncher: hmm, joining conversations without reading the history is a bad habit of mine i think
1579 [11:03:29] <cruncher> but Keloo you said you loved through an raid with fde, and you have fde
1580 [11:03:42] <cruncher> plus at least 1pass wipe..
1581 [11:04:00] <cruncher> s/loved/lived :D
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1583 [11:04:30] <Keloo> cruncher: please show me where you have said this >>> mount -o remount,ro /
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1585 [11:04:45] <cruncher> i didnt say i said that
1586 [11:04:48] <cruncher> Keloo, ^
1587 [11:04:50] <toruvinn> Keloo, he siad to remount root as ro.
1588 [11:05:13] <BCMM> cruncher: oh christ, we're talking about, like, a police raid as opposed to a redundant array of inexpensive disks, right?
1589 [11:05:23] <Keloo> BCMM: yes
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1592 [11:05:38] <toruvinn> hahahaha
1593 [11:05:40] <cruncher> BCMM, as per keloos text, yes
1594 [11:05:42] <BCMM> i wanna ask what the hell you're doing but you're presumably smart enough to not answer that
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1596 [11:05:54] <cruncher> unles he meant a redundant array of inexpensive disks :p
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1598 [11:06:25] <Keloo> BCMM: nothing it was a bs case i beat
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1600 [11:06:47] <Keloo> the point is its a wakeup that you better know wtf your doing for that rainy day
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1602 [11:07:11] <cruncher> Keloo, no, im sure you are right, encrpytion is still the best protection
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1604 [11:07:30] <cruncher> and yes, being prepared is always good
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1608 [11:07:54] <BCMM> in the USA they can compel you to hand over encryption keys now can't they?
1609 [11:08:03] <Keloo> BCMM: no
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1612 [11:08:31] <TalkingHead> BCMM, replaced-url
1613 [11:08:59] <Keloo> BCMM: this happened in the last year all my gear was sent to quantico they offered a plea deal for them but i chose trial they dropped everything after almost a year in jail
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1615 [11:09:21] <Keloo> BCMM: so no they cant
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1617 [11:10:09] <Keloo> cruncher: I was told the same thing stick with huge keys the shred thing was just extra comfort
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1619 [11:10:37] <cruncher> i agree
1620 [11:10:54] <TalkingHead> Restarting machine momentarily, I will return
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1624 [11:13:15] <Keloo> cruncher: so really id be better to just shutdown on tamper with huge keys ? My concern is malware backing up the keys even though the box in question is not online
1625 [11:13:35] <TalkingHead> I am back\
1626 [11:13:41] <cruncher> Keloo, so we are talknig about a remote system?
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1631 [11:14:50] <BCMM> TalkingHead: it looks like it's only seeing one output on your graphics card...
1632 [11:14:55] <Keloo> cruncher: no its not internet connected but I burn cds with data use them on this box to read the data then use another box to encrypt messages burn it to cd then use that cd put it in my box and send encrypted data that way
1633 [11:15:12] <BCMM> TalkingHead: but is 1280x1024 really native resolution for that monitor? i'm thinking maybe you're not using the right graphics driver here
1634 [11:15:19] <BCMM> TalkingHead: do you know what type of gpu you have?
1635 [11:15:23] <cruncher> Keloo, dont get me wrong, im not saying dont use wipe, just dont rely too much / only on it, but its really good as additional protection
1636 [11:15:26] <TalkingHead> BCMM, That would seem to be the case, but how do I get it to see the other? When I was on ubuntu earlier it was just fine.
1637 [11:15:32] <TalkingHead> Yes, that's my second monitor.
1638 [11:15:38] <TalkingHead> And I have a GTX 960
1639 [11:15:40] <cruncher> (except multiple passes)
1640 [11:15:55] <cruncher> and yesm the best you can do is huge keys like you say
1641 [11:15:56] <Keloo> so main box burn cd >> read on safe box >> write on second safe box >> send on main box
1642 [11:16:10] <BCMM> TalkingHead: can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log please?
1643 [11:16:18] <TalkingHead> Yeah, sure thing
1644 [11:16:33] <cruncher> now we could debate about that too, you can read for yourself what the chances are to crack a fde with 128bit key.
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1648 [11:17:41] <Keloo> cruncher: explain in bobo terms im thinking they will infect first safe box with the cd it reads i have no doubts i dont want the malware to store the key somewhere and it not get wiped
1649 [11:17:53] <cruncher> Keloo, so to your question, yes, shutdown on tamper, and if you do an additional wipe the better
1650 [11:17:56] <TalkingHead> BCMM, replaced-url
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1652 [11:18:05] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1653 [11:18:26] <Keloo> cruncher: what do i do to stop that ?
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1656 [11:18:52] <Keloo> i know im still f'ed from a cold boot at that point but i think i got that covered
1657 [11:18:59] <cruncher> Keloo, but if its a single purpose box, not connected to internet, you could also do a read only root system
1658 [11:19:01] <Keloo> with nonn removable ram
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1661 [11:19:15] <Keloo> cruncher ahhhhh brilliant
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1666 [11:20:28] <frechdachs69> Q: how do I download files and install them from within a Debian package installation?
1667 [11:20:37] <BCMM> TalkingHead: i know more about radeon hardware than geforce, but i think the issue might be an old version of the NOUVEAU driver that doesn't support your card
1668 [11:20:45] <BCMM> i'm trying to find out more
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1671 [11:22:40] <BCMM> TalkingHead: yeah, the relevant bit of the log is the bit under "[ 4.016] (II) NOUVEAU driver for NVIDIA chipset families :"
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1673 [11:22:55] <BCMM> TalkingHead: your card is an NV110
1674 [11:23:07] <TalkingHead> Ah
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1676 [11:23:40] <BCMM> TalkingHead: so it's falling back to using the VESA driver, which is a generic graphics driver that works on nearly anything
1677 [11:23:48] <BCMM> but only supports a few standard resolutions, no multi-head, etc.
1678 [11:24:07] <BCMM> basically like Windows before you install a graphics driver, if you remember the XP era when it didn't come with nvidia and amd drivers
1679 [11:24:16] <TalkingHead> Alright
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1681 [11:24:28] <TalkingHead> So I'll update it then
1682 [11:24:31] <TalkingHead> Thanks!
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1684 [11:24:39] <BCMM> TalkingHead: had you decided whether you were going with NOUVEAU or the proprietary nvidia driver yet?
1685 [11:25:09] <TalkingHead> Hmm, I'm not sure. I'm leaning towards NOUVEAU, I think I'll at least start with that.
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1687 [11:25:29] <TalkingHead> I might switch if it can't handle a couple games I intend to play, I'm pretty sure the proprietary gets better performance.
1688 [11:26:14] <BCMM> btw how are you going to update it? is the machine very out of date or something?
1689 [11:26:39] <BCMM> its just if you're running debian stable, it's quite possible you've already got the latest driver for that distro
1690 [11:26:45] <abulletforfree> It's true the proprietaries are usually better, but the nouveau guys are pretty rad ifyou as me
1691 [11:26:45] <TalkingHead> Oh
1692 [11:26:58] <TalkingHead> I was just assuming the wiki would save me
1693 [11:27:01] <TalkingHead> But maybe that's not the case
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1695 [11:27:20] <BCMM> TalkingHead: what release are you on currently?
1696 [11:27:36] <TalkingHead> Debian 9
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1699 [11:27:53] <pabs3> dmidecode says my RAM is type "DDR" but it has the same speed as the RAM in another computer where dmidecode says the type is "DDR3". does that mean my RAM is actually DDR3 and that the RAM in the other computer is compatible with this computer?
1700 [11:28:17] <BCMM> TalkingHead: yeah 1.0.13 is the current release of xserver-xorg-video-nouveau for Stretch
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1702 [11:28:23] <BCMM> there might be something in backports...
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1704 [11:28:32] <TalkingHead> Dang
1705 [11:28:51] <BCMM> TalkingHead: recent hardware is a weak point of debian stable
1706 [11:28:54] <cruncher> tdn, as it was yesterday, i dont remember which vm was the slow one... but am i guessing correctly that the slow one wa created on a previous vbox version, even in jessie maybe?
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1714 [11:31:54] <BCMM> TalkingHead: looks like the Stretch version of the proprietary driver *does* support your hardware however replaced-url
1715 [11:32:04] <TalkingHead> Hmm
1716 [11:32:28] <TalkingHead> I suppose I will just use that, then. Thanks for your help.
1717 [11:32:32] <BCMM> so, uh, might be a matter of use a more bleeding-edge debian release, or accept a kernel tainted by proprietary code
1718 [11:32:51] <AndreasLutro> there's a package+binary nvidia-detect that will tell you which drivers your hardware supports
1719 [11:32:54] <TalkingHead> Well, I did intend to install some games, so I'm fudged any ways.
1720 [11:33:27] <TalkingHead> I feel bad repeatedly pinging will, but he's probably used it it.
1721 [11:34:50] <BCMM> heh how did you even notice? does your IRC client highlight words you say that are nicks in the channel or something?
1722 [11:35:38] <TalkingHead> This is a fresh install, so I just used kiwiirc since I had not yet install a proper client, so yeah.
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1724 [11:36:15] <BCMM> if i were him, i'd only trigger a highlight on will: with a colon after it
1725 [11:36:27] <BCMM> so if he wasn't annoyed before i guess he is now. sorry.
1726 [11:36:42] <TalkingHead> Heh
1727 [11:37:06] <TalkingHead> From what I've seen people use different things after names, like I use commas, but maybe I'm just a jerk
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1729 [11:40:31] <TalkingHead> Alright, thanks for your help, BCMM, I'm going to restart now and hope it's solved! Have a good night.
1730 [11:40:49] <BCMM> when i have to use windows, i use hexchat, which defaults to , on tab complete. it feels weird.
1731 [11:40:51] <BCMM> good luck!
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1734 [11:41:41] <cheapie> BCMM: Settings->Preferences, Interface->Input box, Nick completion suffix
1735 [11:42:07] <BCMM> yeah, just haven't got around to it yet
1736 [11:42:09] <BCMM> thanks
1737 [11:42:43] <BCMM> also when i'm next running windows it will be a PITA to read these logs so i'll just have to google it anyway :)
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1769 [12:03:08] <Nawab> are there any debian mirrors tht support https?
1770 [12:03:08] *** Joins: tuv (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1771 [12:03:18] <Nawab> besides deb.debian.org
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1775 [12:05:15] <babilen> Nawab: I think most of them do
1776 [12:05:34] <Nawab> deb.debian.org is being slow....and i want https
1777 [12:05:55] <babilen> replaced-url
1778 [12:06:02] <Nawab> i looked it up
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1780 [12:06:54] <Nawab> isnt mirrors with ftp prefix gonna get removed on the next month?
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1783 [12:08:20] <babilen> ftp is, not the mirrors
1784 [12:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1640
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1788 [12:10:29] <Nawab> ok
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1801 [12:18:31] <frechdachs69> Q: do Debian packages always have to include all files to be installed? or can I manually install files, e.g. by downloading files from net and copying them to the correct folders?
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1804 [12:19:44] <bsdnoob> guys today my repo seems to be broken?
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1806 [12:20:32] <babilen> frechdachs69: If you install a package you'd get all of its content, but nothing stops you from extracting the .deb and copying files around as you please
1807 [12:20:39] <Haohmaru> frechdachs69 the recommended way is to use the packaging system to install/remove stuff from your system
1808 [12:20:50] <bsdnoob> Err:3 replaced-url
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1810 [12:20:59] <Haohmaru> if you break your debian, who you gonna blame?
1811 [12:21:03] <bsdnoob> I am getting bunch of errors like this ^
1812 [12:21:27] <babilen> bsdnoob: You could try a different mirror (such as deb.debian.org)
1813 [12:21:33] <DLange> bsdnoob: DFN (German IP network) has massive routing issues
1814 [12:21:39] <DLange> do as babilen advises
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1822 [12:26:27] <hcvpmr> whois
1823 [12:27:00] <bsdnoob> babilen, lets try that
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1828 [12:29:42] <bsdnoob> babilen, um
1829 [12:29:52] <bsdnoob> Err:6 replaced-url
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1840 [12:35:21] <TalkingHead> It would seem I'm not getting off so easy
1841 [12:35:33] <TalkingHead> So
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1844 [12:37:32] <TalkingHead> I followed these instructions here: replaced-url
1845 [12:37:32] <TalkingHead> fter that I used nvidia settings to generate an xconfig again, and then tried lightdm instead, only to receive the same flashing text.
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1850 [12:38:21] <TalkingHead> Oh, it would seem the person helping me has left
1851 [12:38:46] <TandyUK> hey guys, how can i instruct apt-cache to search for something (protoc) _without_ using wildcards
1852 [12:38:57] <TandyUK> of i get a billion results for "protocol"
1853 [12:39:00] <TandyUK> ofc*
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1856 [12:39:32] <TandyUK> pretty sure I just installed it along with some other stuff, but im not finding the executable on my system
1857 [12:39:36] <TalkingHead> I will give up and go back to ubuntu, good bye.
1858 [12:39:39] <TalkingHead> Sorry will
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1861 [12:40:39] <themill> TandyUK: 'protoc\b'
1862 [12:40:58] <TandyUK> ty
1863 [12:41:05] <TandyUK> ahha, its protobuf-c-compiler
1864 [12:41:51] <TandyUK> there we go, thanks :)
1865 [12:42:14] <themill> np
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1868 [12:45:43] <amnay> Hi, I'm having hang up issues with an NFS server (on which I have to privilege, I'm merely a client using the debian nfs package). I'm having a fair load of IO, and I get read timeouts: replaced-url
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1899 [13:05:57] <tdn> Where can I find a list of services and packages that require extra attention when upgrading from jessie->stretch? When going from 7 to 8, I remember I had to take special care with stuff like postgresql and apache.
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1902 [13:08:46] <Iridos> apt will ask you during upgrade
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1907 [13:09:42] <tdn> Iridos, yeah, but then it is a bit too late to plan
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1926 [13:18:38] <Iridos> then do the upgrade on a (possibly virtual) test machine
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1933 [13:22:54] <Epakai> !release notes
1934 [13:22:54] <dpkg> The release notes for Debian 9 "Stretch" are at replaced-url
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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