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• 15[00:05:51] <n4dir> dngpph: check if a hidden file in the users home directory is owned by root, for example .Xauthority
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• 19[00:07:51] * NordicAaron 's overthinking his beh.
• 20[00:08:07] * NordicAaron clears his throat...
• 21[00:08:23] <NordicAaron> dngpph, but until you have done it i am ready to help you...
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• 23[00:09:18] <NordicAaron> so, where where we, whats about a pasting of the xsession errors log file from the user with the file manager problem?
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• 31[00:13:10] <psychoticwarrior> whats up
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• 69[00:33:12] <tymczenko> how can I install gnome 3.24 ?
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• 71[00:33:46] <psychoticwarrior> hey whats goin gon
• 72[00:34:09] <annadane> psychoticwarrior, if you have a question just ask, otherwise this isn't a chat channel
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• 75[00:34:46] <psychoticwarrior> ok
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• 79[00:37:38] <somiaj> tymczenko: in debian, you should stick with the version of gnome that comes with the debian release. It is a very large collection of packages, and isn't that easy to install versions different than the one that is provided.
• 80[00:38:18] <tymczenko> somiaj, what if just only upgrade gnome-shell?
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• 83[00:38:48] <FinalX> there's not really a "just" when it comes to gnome tbh
• 84[00:38:52] <somiaj> tymczenko: you would want to backport it, it would require complinig and installing a local copy and may not work with the other gnome parts with out some work.
• 85[00:38:59] <tymczenko> FinalX, :D
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• 89[00:40:22] <tymczenko> somiaj, OK, I'll drag the dull burden of using outdated software)
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• 91[00:40:34] <tymczenko> thanks, guys!
• 92[00:40:40] <n4dir> tymczenko: or choose a different distribution of linux.
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• 94[00:41:28] <tymczenko> n4dir, like "sid"? or you're talking about non-debian distros?
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• 96[00:41:57] <somiaj> tymczenko: a frozen system has lots of advantages. All software in debian is known to work well together, and things won't change on you just because you do an upgrade. But it is a give take, other distros provide a different experience.
• 97[00:42:20] <n4dir> sid would be a good choice, imho, though it doesn't seem to have the version of gnome you are looking for neither. I meant a different distro. If you are always looking for the lates versions, debian might not be the best choice
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• 99[00:43:02] <annadane> but be careful recommending sid, it's not for everyone
• 100[00:43:07] <abrotman> n4dir: "good choice" is highly subjective, and unless you already know why it's called unstable, don't use it
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• 102[00:43:21] <abrotman> nor recommend it
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• 104[00:44:14] <n4dir> annadane: abrotman . Sure, i didn't say what i wanted to say. (I wanted to say: if i only had the choice to use a different distro or sid, cause i really desperately need the newest version, then i would choose sid)
• 105[00:44:28] <n4dir> but first of all i would consider if my value system is a good one
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• 109[00:45:55] <tymczenko> n4dir, I think I'll stay with Debian because I'm so accustomed to the ecosystem of .deb programs
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• 112[00:47:42] <n4dir> tymczenko: my point: Debian is the way that it is, with all it's advantages. Always the newest version isn't one of it's advantages (for what reason ever people care for that).
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• 118[00:48:53] <n4dir> replaced-url
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• 120[00:49:13] <tymczenko> ok
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• 123[00:50:10] <rjdp9736> I am using i3wm and some unicode glyphs are not displaying, can somebody guide me in right direction , I tried a solutions i got googling, it has not worked out yet
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• 138[00:59:28] <Epakai> rjdp9736: are you sure your font has those glyphs?
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• 155[01:10:33] <drzraf> Hi, I've a (kernel?) issue (Stretch regression) and I wonder how to debug: laptop's fans do not work unless acpi=off
• 156[01:11:38] <drzraf> I used to run 4.9+80~bpo8+1 which was OK, but 4.9+80+deb9u1 and 4.12+84 = no fan unless acpi=off
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• 158[01:12:15] <drzraf> I thought about "*acpi*" packages but I need a more rational debug-path
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• 180[01:24:30] <foul_owl> Is haproxy still the gold standard for load balancing? Would you prefer it or a different load balancer?
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• 183[01:25:55] <Wulf> foul_owl: it's okay. An alternative I've been thinking about is to use iptables rules and write a program that manages them. In theory it should be a bit quicker than haproxy as no userspace at all is involved.
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• 185[01:25:59] <Wulf> foul_owl: but too much effort
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• 190[01:29:50] <DerLGm> Wulf: foul_owl id use iptables if possible. then again i havent tried haproxy.
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• 194[01:30:50] <Wulf> haproxy got tons of features
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• 198[01:32:08] <abrotman> foul_owl: yes, AFAIK, yes. Unless you have money for hardware LBs I suppose
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• 240[02:04:10] <raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day :D
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• 328[02:57:54] <scriptkiddy> list
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• 360[03:13:38] <juon> Hello everybody
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• 397[03:41:53] <z6016zdw> hello
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• 399[03:43:14] <z6016zdw> What are you doing?
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• 407[03:46:12] <psychoticwarrior> not much just got done eating dinner. how about you?
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• 410[03:47:02] <bazhang> psychoticwarrior, he left
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• 418[03:50:05] <psychoticwarrior> oh ok
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• 505[04:46:13] <nuxis> what is the command again to see the proceses. ps ax ...
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• 507[04:47:00] <nuxis> or ps aux
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• 555[05:33:39] *** Guest54560 is now known as juon
• 556[05:35:00] <juon> I have a problem, which my Driver Video GT630M, and I dont want to suspend my laptop whe close lid.
• 557[05:35:17] <juon> I want suspend my Desktop when lid close
• 558[05:35:26] <juon> I want use the my driver video too
• 559[05:35:34] <juon> Anybodyry can help me ?
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• 598[06:18:20] <malvidx> hey does anyone know if there is a channel for pure os
• 599[06:19:36] <malvidx> just curious cause its debian based and its saying some of my hardware nees non-free firmware to operate
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• 601[06:19:42] <aging_> saw you!
• 602[06:19:59] <aging_> check the debian how-tos
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• 605[06:20:07] <aging_> wireless and video?
• 606[06:20:15] <malvidx> wireless
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• 609[06:21:49] <malvidx> screw it ill just stick with bunsenlabs
• 610[06:21:59] <aging_> ok
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• 615[06:23:07] <cha18> 2
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• 622[06:28:21] <allan_wind> How do I troubleshoot packet loss?
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• 626[06:30:09] <rjsalts> allan_wind: I like mtr (from mtr-tiny package). packet captures through tcpdump/wireshark might also help
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• 631[06:34:40] <allan_wind> mtr is nice, I jury rigged ping in a loop. So I identified a host with problem (packet loss with two diff hosts), and no issues with the two diff hosts. What is the next step?
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• 634[06:35:48] <allan_wind> vent->toofan, pawan->toofan both show packet loss; vent->pawan does not. I replaced the cable and used a different switch port already. Bounced the switch and toofan. What's the next step?
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• 659[06:52:41] <rjsalts> allan_wind: check link utilisation? is it dropping packets because there is too much traffic across that hop?
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• 662[06:54:31] <allan_wind> rjsalts: laptop is idle, nothing going on, also, it seems that I am seeing packet loss from vent->toofan, but not from toofan->vent
• 663[06:54:52] <allan_wind> running mtr concurrent in both directions
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• 665[06:55:36] <allan_wind> how do I check link utilization, btw?
• 666[06:55:38] <DerLGm> so vent is dropping packets?
• 667[06:55:49] <allan_wind> toofan
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• 669[06:56:40] <DerLGm> encryption causing problems? sorry i just got in.
• 670[06:56:43] <allan_wind> I have multiple hosts and toofan shows packet loss to it from each those hosts
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• 672[06:57:57] <DerLGm> you have alot of net traffic?
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• 674[06:58:14] <allan_wind> no, basically idle
• 675[06:59:08] <DerLGm> howvare they communicating?
• 676[06:59:49] <allan_wind> vent and toofan are both connected to a netgear wifi router; I am testing wired connection
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• 678[07:01:16] <DerLGm> wifi router but only using ethernet? have you checked the settings of the router?
• 679[07:01:41] <allan_wind> there isn't really any settings on the router for the wired part
• 680[07:01:49] <allan_wind> (it's a switch)
• 681[07:02:22] <DerLGm> was asking in case theres a ip filter or a timeout setting
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• 684[07:03:03] <rjsalts> allan_wind: if you have a managed switch then snmp counters, etc. If it's a really basic switch then cry a lot and try to infer things from all the things on the network that may be sending data to a specific port
• 685[07:03:17] <allan_wind> dumb switch
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• 690[07:04:10] <rjsalts> allan_wind: so it's toofan that has the loss, and it's over wifi?
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• 692[07:04:35] <allan_wind> I mean, it's a wifi router so not really a dumb switch but I don't see anything in the wired part.
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• 694[07:05:00] <allan_wind> rjsalts: no, wired either. wifi interface is down on both toofan and vent (working host)
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• 696[07:05:09] <allan_wind> ethernet, I mean
• 697[07:06:12] <allan_wind> I used the cable that was on toofan for vent, and did not see packet loss, so I think the cable is fine. Also tried two diff cables.
• 698[07:06:42] <rjsalts> and different switch ports, I assume
• 699[07:06:50] <allan_wind> yeah
• 700[07:07:10] <allan_wind> I have an extra plain switch let me try that, but it seems there is something off with the host
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• 702[07:08:18] <rjsalts> what does ifconfig say about receive/transmit errors?
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• 706[07:10:04] <allan_wind> Both rx and tx shows 0 on both toofan and vent
• 707[07:10:17] <allan_wind> 0 errors, dropped, overruns
• 708[07:10:30] <rjsalts> allan_wind: okay, I'd start looking at packet captures
• 709[07:10:51] <allan_wind> I actually captured tcpdump earlier, but I am not sure how to read it
• 710[07:10:56] <allan_wind> (in wireshark)
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• 713[07:11:29] <rjsalts> allan_wind: yeah, if you do tcpdump -o /your/packet/capture then you can view that in wireshark
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• 722[07:16:46] <allan_wind> I was testing with ssh initially, and when I follow a stream I see the timestamp jumping almost a min within a stream, and wireshark later says TCP Previous segment not captured, and later retransmission
• 723[07:17:07] <allan_wind> I am pretty sure it's toofan, so how do I figure out what the root cause is?
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• 738[07:29:34] <allan_wind> I obtained a tcpdump from vent when there was packet loss, and it just shows that toofan doesn't respond. Let me grab a tcpdump from toofan to see if it gets the request during packet loss
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• 740[07:30:01] <darxmurf> hi all
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• 747[07:36:21] <klys> hi darxmurf
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• 753[07:39:13] <allan_wind> tcpdump from toofan shows that it is not getting the requests from vent; vent shows (in diff tcpdump) that it is sending the requests but does not get the response
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• 755[07:39:44] <pragomer> is there an opensource GUI tool for doing backups to tapes?
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• 757[07:40:42] <allan_wind> pragomer: yeah, bacula. That said, you may want to look into attic/borgbackup
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• 762[07:44:05] <pragomer> mm. both seems very complicated
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• 782[07:58:37] <allan_wind> pragomer: they are not, really, borgbackup is a fork of attic, so they are very similar
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• 785[07:59:51] <allan_wind> pragomer: really, you install on both client and server, then on client run attic/borg init pointing to server, then create and prune
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• 787[08:00:34] <allan_wind> they dedup, and pretty fst if you use no-compression (for borg)
• 788[08:00:40] <allan_wind> fast
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• 791[08:03:57] <allan_wind> I introduced a new switch between only vent and toofan, and still getting packet loss. So how I troubleshoot this on toofan?
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• 803[08:09:43] <pragomer> what I need to do is: copy a few hundred gigs of an usb-hdd to a tape. and dont touch it for years. need no synchronisation or things like that.
• 804[08:09:59] <pragomer> woulnt tar then not be easier then setting up a thing like bacula?
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• 807[08:10:29] <allan_wind> pragomer: sure
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• 822[08:16:08] <themill> verifying that the backup was done correctly and has not degraded are useful features of real backup programs
• 823[08:17:38] <allan_wind> as is error correction (not in tar or cpio, I was checking on pax but cannot tell)
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• 826[08:18:42] <themill> verification and correction are different things
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• 828[08:19:41] <allan_wind> indeed. correction tells you that you are screwed, correction gives you a chance of getting your data back. I imagine there is some of this one tape drives already but haven't touched tape for a while
• 829[08:20:26] <allan_wind> verification, I mean, only tells you that your data is corrupt
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• 835[08:23:03] <allan_wind> (i.e. par2 rather than tar/cpio)
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• 860[08:37:17] <allan_wind> I reran the mtr with toofan in rescue mode, and not seeing any packet loss... so where do I go from here?
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• 877[08:46:51] <elios> hi, where did fglrx went in stable?
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• 879[08:47:22] <klys> elios, that's probably in non-free?
• 880[08:47:46] <elios> mhm
• 881[08:47:53] <somiaj> it was removed in favor of amdgpu I belive
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• 883[08:47:55] <somiaj> ,fglrx-driver
• 884[08:48:02] <Zambezi> A couple of ago I was so close buying a SSD but EXT4 is kind of harsh. Is there something beside the SSD-guide on the wiki I need to consider? Really need to reorganize my harddrives.
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• 886[08:48:55] <somiaj> ,v fglrx-driver
• 887[08:48:56] <judd> Package: fglrx-driver on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 1:12-6+point-3; wheezy-backports/non-free: 1:15.9-4~deb8u1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 1:15.9-4~deb8u2; jessie-backports/non-free: 1:15.12-2~bpo8+4
• 888[08:49:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1568
• 889[08:49:44] <somiaj> yup, it was removed after stretch, in stretch use the amdgpu driver. There really isn't a non-free optoin fro amd in stretch
• 890[08:50:05] <elios> heh, interesting.
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• 893[08:52:05] <allan_wind> Zambezi: somewhat recent kernel with trim support, and mount with noatime and that's pretty much it
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• 895[08:53:41] <towo^work> somiaj, s/amdgpu/amdgpu or radeon
• 896[08:53:58] <towo^work> not all amd cards ar supported by amdgpu
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• 900[08:56:29] <Zambezi> allan_wind: Probably going to use Stretch. Need to check the options for the system harddrive.
• 901[08:57:08] <allan_wind> Zambezi: If you haven't used a ssd yet, then you are in for a treat
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• 907[09:00:01] <Zambezi> allan_wind: It's an ancient 80 GB. My wifes bought a M2 so I can probably get his to evalute. Trying to avoid large harddrive for personal files after a major harddrive failure. Sorting the recovered data to for ever.
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• 914[09:04:14] <yangsx> After my last Friday apt-get upgrade, fcitx stops start-up upon entering X, and manually start fcitx gives me an error: (ERROR-2133 /build/fcitx-SJV5lg/fcitx-4.2.9.1/src/lib/fcitx/ime.c:432) fcitx-keyboard-cm-mmuock already exists.
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• 916[09:04:58] <yangsx> fcitx was not updated in the process, but gcc/g++ were updated. Anybody has a solution?
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• 920[09:07:35] <banished> where do you add an .asc key?
• 921[09:07:45] <banished> say for apt
• 922[09:07:54] <banished> xterm
• 923[09:07:56] <banished> file
• 924[09:08:43] <banished> busy ch
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• 927[09:10:37] *** Seto_Kaiba is now known as Hunterkll
• 928[09:11:01] <annadane> !enter
• 929[09:11:01] <dpkg> The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
• 930[09:11:39] <banished> !flood
• 931[09:11:40] <dpkg> It's considered impolite to paste many lines of text on IRC. Please don't do it. Pasting one line is fine. Pasting two lines you can usually get away with. Pasting three lines will get you insulted. Pasting four or more lines will get you kicked. If you want to paste, ask me about <paste>
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• 955[09:25:11] <jelly> banished: depends, which debian release? jessie and stretch have /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ directory
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• 957[09:25:49] <jelly> banished: assuming you're talking about a signing key for a repo
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• 959[09:27:57] <banished> jelly, Well apt-key worked yet apt update still gives an error at Oracle so I'm thinking it Oracle
• 960[09:29:09] <banished> jelly, "did apt-key" list for "apt-key del" yet the Oracle key still stays there.
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• 963[09:31:05] <banished> So which part of this:
• 964[09:31:21] <banished> pub 4096R/2B90D010 2014-11-21 [expires: 2022-11-19]
• 965[09:31:32] <banished> uid Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (8/jessie) <ftpmaster@debian.org>
• 966[09:31:39] <banished> is the keyid?
• 967[09:32:01] <banished> Tried all and it still remains
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• 971[09:33:40] <themill> the full output of "apt-key list" and the full output of "apt-get update" might be instructive
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• 976[09:35:40] <banished> !paste
• 977[09:35:41] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
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• 987[09:37:23] <banished> replaced-url
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• 998[09:41:36] * banished feels like idiot
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• 1000[09:42:03] <banished> had synaptic buried and minimized
• 1001[09:42:09] <banished> locked it up
• 1002[09:42:32] <banished> :P
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• 1010[09:46:23] <banished> other problem still exists for stretch
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• 1013[09:46:59] <banished> install without network connected and no networking is configured for cards
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• 1018[09:50:52] <banished> Do the weekly-builds fix the network configuration issues when installing from ISO?
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• 1020[09:51:20] <yangsx> fcitx-diagnose reports it canot find many of its fcitx-*.so modules while they all are available at /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/fcitx/
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• 1028[09:54:32] <themill> banished: what network configuration issue? (it should nor surprise you that there is no configuration if there was nothing to configure; you can go and configure it yourself if you need it)
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• 1036[10:00:26] <banished> yangsx, fcitx: ...."w/intuitive graphical configuration tools" which is why I have to run stretch in terminal (console) so I can get to the legacy drivers since my old NV card didn't make the default probe list and drivers.
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• 1039[10:01:49] <banished> Will try the weekly build and see if it works.
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• 1043[10:03:17] <yangsx> fcitx was working perfectly normal before last Friday's "apt-get upgrade". So I suppose it is not an issue of configuring fcitx.
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• 1069[10:15:59] <mmpmmp> hey, I want to configure a ntp-server. In ntp.conf I have the option to use pool or server. What is the difference? In the manpage is meantioned only server, but in the default file is only pool.
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• 1083[10:19:22] <McErroneous> Hi, how do i resolve "unvisible mouse pointer" in squeeze ?
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• 1088[10:23:14] <mmpmmp> McErroneous: This should be a workaround: replaced-url
• 1089[10:23:15] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 1092[10:24:17] <yangsx> a bug #806567 was filed against fcitx 29 Nov 2015 for the same problem. There is a follow-up info says that installing fcitx-libs-dev can make the "Cannot find file xxx.so of addon xxx" error go away.
• 1093[10:24:18] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1094[10:26:18] <McErroneous> i could not find a "hotplug" service in debian to restart...
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• 1096[10:26:45] <McErroneous> relunching usbhid, did not solved it either...
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• 1100[10:27:16] <McErroneous> "apt-cache search fcitx" = nothing found...
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• 1103[10:28:18] <k_sze> Just because /tmp is not listed as tmpfs in the output of `mount`, does it actually mean it's not tmpfs?
• 1104[10:28:28] <k_sze> It seems a bit strange the tmp to not be tmpfs.
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• 1145[10:48:24] <diabel> Can someone explain me why is 404 on left link (from changelog) on site:
• 1146[10:48:26] <diabel> replaced-url
• 1147[10:48:33] <diabel> replaced-url
• 1148[10:48:49] <diabel> that is not first time i see this
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• 1181[11:08:14] <nindustries> Hi, does anyone have /etc/environment for stretch?
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• 1188[11:14:32] <nadersith> good morning
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• 1198[11:20:13] <nindustries> If anyone could pastebin their /etc/environment, I would be grateful
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• 1202[11:22:41] <slax0r> nindustries: don't have stretch running, but the docker container debian:stretch has an empty /etc/environment
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• 1204[11:23:51] <nindustries> slax0r: aha, good point. thanks.
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• 1207[11:25:37] <cruncher> nindustries, slax0r, yes, its empty on stretch
• 1208[11:26:00] <nindustries> Thanks cruncher & slax0r
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• 1222[11:30:15] <john_rambo> Just reinstalled Debian ... Installed all the updates...Restored the Chromium profile from old /home ...Now when I open Chromium I see this >>> replaced-url
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• 1244[11:48:22] <nindustries> close
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• 1270[12:00:46] <nadersith> /
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• 1293[12:10:41] <nbl> Hello
• 1294[12:10:50] <nadersith> hi
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• 1297[12:11:49] <nbl> I did a minimal install on debian Stretch and I installed xorg with xserver-xorg-core for my graphic chipset but I don't have 3d hardware acceleration
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• 1299[12:12:03] <nbl> when I type startx on tty1 I have this error message
• 1300[12:12:16] <nbl> gbm: failed to open any driver (search paths /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri:${ORIGIN}/dri:/usr/lib/dri)
• 1301[12:12:19] <nbl> gbm: failed to open any driver (search paths /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri:${ORIGIN}/dri:/usr/lib/dri)
• 1302[12:12:46] <nbl> anyone knows which package missing ?
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• 1306[12:15:12] <towo^work> nbl, does anyone here know your graphics hardware?
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• 1321[12:21:38] <jezebel> hi :) i'm trying to have my laptop connect to my mobile phone under headset audio gateway without success, anyone familiar with the process? :)
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• 1325[12:22:18] <gpunk> have you installed bluetooth ?
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• 1327[12:22:27] <jezebel> yep
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• 1329[12:22:30] <jezebel> bluez5
• 1330[12:22:40] <jezebel> pulse UDIO TOO O
• 1331[12:22:42] <jezebel> oops
• 1332[12:22:45] <jezebel> pulseaudio too
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• 1336[12:23:09] <jezebel> i'm getting a "Failed to change profile to headset_audio_gateway" error
• 1337[12:23:13] <mmpmmp> hey, I want to configure a ntp-server. In ntp.conf I have the option to use pool or server. What is the difference? In the manpage is meantioned only server, but in the default file is only pool.
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• 1341[12:23:59] <nadersith> bluez-pulseaudio
• 1342[12:24:02] <nadersith> something like that
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• 1344[12:24:37] <nadersith> replaced-url
• 1345[12:24:40] <nadersith> this
• 1346[12:25:04] <nadersith> unpair and untrust, reboot and try again
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• 1348[12:25:20] <jezebel> yep, i have that installe
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• 1350[12:25:24] <jezebel> dpkg --list shows it as ii
• 1351[12:25:24] <dpkg> jezebel: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
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• 1354[12:25:49] <jezebel> ii pulseaudio-mod 10.0-1+deb9u amd64 Bluetooth module for PulseAudio s
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• 1360[12:28:07] <nadersith> maybe it's a bug. I had to turn off device then switch to headshet or a2dp
• 1361[12:28:10] <nadersith> in the past
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• 1363[12:28:25] <jezebel> hmmm
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• 1365[12:28:42] <jezebel> a2dp works interestingly, just not hsp/hfp
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• 1370[12:29:40] <nadersith> I got the same problem but I fixed it by installing the package mentioned above
• 1371[12:29:56] <nadersith> I had to kill Pulseaudio after installing it, of course
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• 1373[12:30:15] <jezebel> even loaded the non free firmware :/
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• 1375[12:30:21] <GilesB> Hi, I am wondering why I am seeing such different results with `iw link` speed vs iperf: replaced-url
• 1376[12:30:27] <nadersith> replaced-url
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• 1378[12:30:52] <nadersith> check Troubleshooting
• 1379[12:30:55] <nadersith> in that page
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• 1392[12:36:01] <ben25> hello
• 1393[12:36:06] <GilesB> hi
• 1394[12:36:14] <nadersith> hi
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• 1396[12:36:45] <ben25> since debian 9 i can't access the console, le screen just freeze until i ctrl+alt+F7 back
• 1397[12:37:02] <ben25> any idea why or how to fix ?
• 1398[12:37:27] <nadersith> you mean ctrl+alt+f1 is not working?
• 1399[12:38:21] <ben25> it freeze the X screen
• 1400[12:38:35] <ben25> freezes even
• 1401[12:38:42] <ben25> zzz
• 1402[12:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1611
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• 1404[12:39:46] <Somelauw> Is there an anki package on stretch?
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• 1406[12:40:14] <nadersith> replaced-url
• 1407[12:40:26] <nadersith> no stretch nor buster package
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• 1410[12:40:56] <nadersith> replaced-url
• 1411[12:40:58] <nadersith> binaries here
• 1412[12:40:59] <Somelauw> was it removed, why would it not inherit the package from wheezy?
• 1413[12:42:41] *** Quits: notpaleo (uid239674@replaced-ip) ()
• 1414[12:42:55] <nadersith> replaced-url
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• 1421[12:45:46] <Somelauw> will installing the binary result in problems in the long term? (conflicting libraries or something)
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• 1423[12:46:46] <FinalX> Somelauw: if packages are no longer actively maintained, they risk being taken out of the next releases. even if there's nothing wrong with it at that time.
• 1424[12:47:17] <FinalX> it needs an active maintainer for in case something does go wrong with the software
• 1425[12:47:35] <darxmurf> I have this machine with this SATA controler: 09:00.0 SATA controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE9128 PCIe SATA 6 Gb/s RAID controller with HyperDuo (rev 11)
• 1426[12:47:52] *** Quits: mavhq (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1427[12:47:55] <darxmurf> how can I see if there is a RAID configured ?
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• 1429[12:48:51] <FinalX> if it's hardware raid, you'll need the controllers tools for it
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• 1435[12:49:24] <darxmurf> not sure if marvell is selling this kind of cards
• 1436[12:49:30] <darxmurf> it smells like those fake raid
• 1437[12:49:41] <darxmurf> on the machine there is apparently no mdRaid conf
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• 1439[12:49:48] <FinalX> SATA controllers are not per definition RAID-capable.
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• 1441[12:49:59] <FinalX> my Marvell card is just that, a SATA controller with no RAID capabilities.
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• 1443[12:50:29] <FinalX> (and that's what I wanted!)
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• 1445[12:50:33] <Somelauw> nadersith: unfortunately, i was unable to install the compiled binary
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• 1447[12:51:09] <ben25> hi, since the upgrade to debian 9 the fonts used in firefox and thunderbird ui are ugly, any idea how to fix that
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• 1449[12:51:28] <SuperSeriouCat> Install prettier fonts
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• 1454[12:52:24] <ben25> hmm
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• 1457[12:52:37] <Somelauw> I don't understand the error replaced-url
• 1458[12:52:37] <ben25> like what?
• 1459[12:52:43] <Somelauw> Should I ask here or in #anki?
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• 1467[12:59:07] <C3NT4URO> hi all. I'm so newbie with debian... so... I'm having a little problem looking for resolv.conf ... how can i add new nameservers here?
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• 1469[13:00:19] <C3NT4URO> or is it mandatory to do that via network-manager?
• 1470[13:00:34] <darxmurf> C3NT4URO: if you use the network manager it will add them from there
• 1471[13:00:42] <darxmurf> else, you have to edit by hand
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• 1475[13:01:23] <darxmurf> if you want to do it by hand, just open your resolv.conf as root and add something like
• 1476[13:01:27] <darxmurf> nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
• 1477[13:01:28] <edi> C3NT4URO, there's also smt like resolvconf cmd
• 1478[13:01:40] <edi> to update the resolf.conf file
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• 1481[13:02:42] <C3NT4URO> thx for the response so... i did the modifications in etc/network/interfaces, but there is no /etc/resolv.conf (just one moment, i will check it now)
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• 1485[13:05:00] <darxmurf> is the network manager running ?
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• 1511[13:17:08] <Trap-Chan> if i get an upgrade harddrive for my computer how challenging is the process to migrate my debian install?
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• 1516[13:20:20] <colo-work> Trap-Chan, generally speaking, it's rather easy. you can use something like Clonezilla to skip manual work that the migration would otherwise entail
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• 1518[13:21:08] <cyphix> Hi. I'm trying to install debian on a lenovo ideapad 110-15ISK. My wireless card is not detected. I'm trying to identify the kernel modules to install, but I can't find what is required. The command 'lspci -knn | grep -i netw -A2' gives me the following output: "02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation Device [8086] (rev 99) Subsystem: Intel Corporation Device [8086:4210]". There's no mention of
• 1519[13:21:09] <Trap-Chan> and that'll get everything i need like mbr and exploding the partition(s)?
• 1520[13:21:10] <cyphix> the drivers used, so I don't know what to install.
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• 1523[13:21:48] <bolt> Trap-Chan: just switch the drives and restore your backup. you have a backup, right? ^^
• 1524[13:21:59] <bolt> Trap-Chan: your answer is "yes" :)
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• 1527[13:22:46] <Trap-Chan> no backups it's a very young install.
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• 1529[13:23:55] <Trap-Chan> if it's just an HTPC is a total backup advised or don't backup my roms/movies/shows to save backup media?
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• 1532[13:25:41] <slax0r> why not just install on the new harddrive then, and copy over your stuff?
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• 1537[13:28:12] <Trap-Chan> wouldn't it be faster to clone/migrate than to fresh install and then install kodi/retroarch via apt and top it off by migrating my media?
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• 1539[13:29:07] <colo-work> Trap-Chan, only you can decide/know that :)
• 1540[13:29:17] <colo-work> from what info you have provided, the answer is probably "yes"
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• 1543[13:30:20] <state> Hello, earlier this morning I was testing out some mp3 recordings and opened more than one instance of Audacity, which seems to be a no-no. My xsession crashed and when I try to log in, I get "warning: unable to write to /tmp; X session may exit with error" How do I get bck into my install?
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• 1571[13:39:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1603
• 1572[13:39:23] <cyphix> no idea how I can identify the required kernel driver?
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• 1577[13:40:31] <colo-work> cyphix, when was that notebook put on the market? and what Debian release are you trying to install/set up on it?
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• 1579[13:40:44] <colo-work> (if it's recent, chances are the driver needed is "iwlwifi")
• 1580[13:41:13] <cyphix> colo-work It's recent indeed. And I have the stable debian release.
• 1581[13:41:26] <colo-work> so that is 9.1/stretch?
• 1582[13:41:35] <cyphix> I installed iwlwifi-firmware, but I don't know what to do next
• 1583[13:41:47] <colo-work> try `sudo modprobe iwlwifi`
• 1584[13:42:04] <colo-work> if that doesn't work, try `sudo modprobe -r iwlwifi` first
• 1585[13:42:06] <colo-work> then the above again
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• 1588[13:42:20] <colo-work> then check/nopaste the output of `sudo dmesg | tail -n 20`
• 1589[13:42:41] <cyphix> colo-work: ah, non, c'est la version 8.9
• 1590[13:42:51] <state> Hello, earlier this morning I was testing out some mp3 recordings and opened more than one instance of Audacity, which seems to be a no-no. My xsession crashed and when I try to log in, I get "warning: unable to write to /tmp; X session may exit with error" How do I get bck into my install?
• 1591[13:42:54] <colo-work> cyphix, you should give 9.1 a go then :)
• 1592[13:43:08] <colo-work> chances are the jessie kernel doesn't know about your adapter's PCIID yet
• 1593[13:43:10] <cyphix> colo-work: sorry for my french :)
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• 1595[13:43:33] <state> I already tried ctrl alt f3 and did 'rm -rf /tmp/* ' to no avail
• 1596[13:45:03] <cyphix> colo-work: ok, I'll upgrade, and try to load the module manually to see if it works
• 1597[13:45:29] <colo-work> cyphix, chances are you won't have to do anything manually after the upgrade
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• 1599[13:45:38] <cyphix> ok, good
• 1600[13:46:02] <colo-work> state, can you paste the output of `ls -ld /tmp/' in here?
• 1601[13:46:06] <jelly> judd: pciid 8086:4210
• 1602[13:46:07] <judd> [8086:4210] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
• 1603[13:46:55] <jelly> cyphix: that's probably the wired ethernet interface, anything else network related in lspci -nn output?
• 1604[13:47:21] <cyphix> jelly: no, that's what worries me, I can't find a wireless mention
• 1605[13:47:23] <state> Yeah, I will have to log out from here and come back. I dualboot, my Windows install is fine. Just Debian side is borked.
• 1606[13:47:36] <state> : -(
• 1607[13:47:56] <state> Normally it is Windows that is borked.
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• 1610[13:48:24] <state> I ran more than one instance of Audcaity, had no idea that was a no-no
• 1611[13:48:30] <state> Audacity
• 1612[13:48:34] <colo-work> state, can you paste the output of `ls -ld /tmp/' in here?
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• 1614[13:48:51] <colo-work> did you start audacity as root/via sudo?
• 1615[13:49:02] <state> colo-work, no
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• 1620[13:49:55] <jelly> ,kernels
• 1621[13:49:56] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.13.0-rc5-686 (4.13~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 4.12.0-1-686 (4.12.6-1); buster: 4.12.0-1-686 (4.12.6-1); stretch-backports: 4.11.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.11.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-3-686 (4.9.30-2+deb9u3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.3-686 (4.9.30-2+deb9u2~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.43-2+deb8u3); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
• 1622[13:49:57] <judd> (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.89-2)
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• 1632[13:55:35] <jelly> judd: pciid 8086:4210 --release stretch-backports
• 1633[13:55:36] <judd> [8086:4210] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch-backports. See also replaced-url
• 1634[13:55:44] <jelly> no drivers there yet
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• 1639[13:58:13] <state> colo-work, you there?
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• 1643[13:59:24] <state> 'drwxrwxrwt 8 root root 4096 Aug 28 07:55 /tmp/ '
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• 1678[14:10:53] <colo-work> state, those look sane to me
• 1679[14:11:02] <colo-work> so it's not a permission problem
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• 1681[14:11:33] <state> Hrm, and I cannot get into my xsession what-so-freakin-ever
• 1682[14:11:34] <colo-work> hmm, does the login manager have PrivateTemp these days?
• 1683[14:11:42] <colo-work> did you reboot already?
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• 1685[14:11:57] <state> yeah, that is how I got the output you sought
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• 1702[14:18:27] <hoijui> when i run debian 9.1 live from USB (or installed on my HD), i get a black screen late in the booting process, and nothign hapens anymore
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• 1704[14:18:41] <hoijui> when i add the kernel param acpi=off, i get into X just fine
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• 1707[14:19:04] <hoijui> this is on an IBM ThinkPad X60 with libreboot
• 1708[14:19:38] <hoijui> so the question is... can i somehow find out what part of ACPI is causing the problem?
• 1709[14:19:46] <hoijui> can i turn off parts individually?
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• 1713[14:23:05] <armin> am i correct that i would need to call logrotate one time per hour from cron.hourly if i would want some logfiles for some services to be rotated hourly?
• 1714[14:23:26] <armin> i keep asking myself if i would actually call a rotation when triggering this manually for testing purposes.
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• 1738[14:36:46] <d3lphi> hi.Running Debian Jessie and cups wont start.I already purged everything related to cups and reinstalled by "apt-get install cups" but the service fails with "22271 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/cupsd -f (code=exited, status=226/NAMESPACE)" systemd[22271]: Failed at step NAMESPACE spawning /usr/sbin/cupsd: Operation not permitted systemd[1]: cups.service: main process exited, code=exited, status=226/NAMESPACE systemd
• 1739[14:36:52] <d3lphi> [1]: Unit cups.service entered failed state. I have no clue what else to try, any help appreciated
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• 1741[14:37:21] <d3lphi> OS is up-to-date (apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade(
• 1742[14:40:19] <andrew2221> Hi everyone. A quick question, maybe not debian specific.. I need a customized grep/ack, thought there are some foo-s here to help me out. Basically I need to find a string recursively in many folders, but only in specific file. Meaning, I have several folders, which may, or may not contain a specific subfolder, in which there is an .inc file (text
• 1743[14:40:19] <andrew2221> ). Inside that file (if exist), I need to get the line containing the specified string, and print the line and the filename. Any ideas?
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• 1745[14:42:13] <gpunk> andrew2221: man grep
• 1746[14:43:56] <FinalX> ...and "find"
• 1747[14:44:09] <gpunk> grep -r... will replace the find
• 1748[14:44:17] <JyZyXEL> sudo apt-get build-dep mesa
• 1749[14:44:19] <JyZyXEL> E: Build-Depends dependency for mesa cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package libdrm-dev can't satisfy version requirements
• 1750[14:44:42] <FinalX> gpunk: no, he wants to only grep in specific files. if he has a huge dataset, recursively grepping might grep through terabytes of data, where otherwise it might only grep a few bytes.
• 1751[14:44:48] <FinalX> it's _really_ not the same thing
• 1752[14:45:02] <andrew2221> gpunk: Right.. That should be the first stop. This command "find . -name '*.inc' -exec grep -i 'server_sqldb' {} \; -print > ~/slqdb.txt" does almost what I need, but there are a lot of .inc files in many folders, and the .inc file I am interested in can be any of 3 filenames..
• 1753[14:45:03] <gpunk> in some cases yes I agree
• 1754[14:45:34] <FinalX> andrew2221: -name 'name1.inc' -o -name 'name2.inc' -o 'name3.inc'
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• 1756[14:46:13] <FinalX> you can also specify min- and maxdepth of directory levels, and possibly even the specific dirname in the name, like -name 'specialdir/name1.inc'
• 1757[14:46:45] <andrew2221> FinalX: Oh, ok.. Let me try that.. (What I wanted is to speed up the process, it takes too long to execute like I did before, 5min+..)
• 1758[14:46:57] <FinalX> so if you know your files are a maximum of 3 levels deep, and not deeper, but you might have a lot of deeper structured dirs, you can skip find looping over those with -maxdepth, saving time
• 1759[14:47:29] <FinalX> and if you know it's exactly 3 levels deep, you can use -mindepth 3 -maxdepth 3 to make sure that it _only_ searches 3 levels deep, and skips 1-2 levels and 4+
• 1760[14:47:45] <andrew2221> FinalX: Great, thank you.. Let me test out those tips..
• 1761[14:48:21] <FinalX> and then you can also make it so it only searches for *real files* with -type f (will skip directory names and links)
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• 1764[14:49:17] <FinalX> there's a lot of other options you can narrow it down with if you have even more specifications available, like special user id, group id, size, modification time, etc.
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• 1769[14:51:03] <andrew2221> FinalX: I guess there's no need to be that specific, user/group may vary, but giving -o -name it seems doesn't help that much in performance. I am trying to include the directory as well now.
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• 1774[14:52:19] <andrew2221> FinalX: Is there a way to print the results in the same line? Should I check the man?
• 1775[14:52:40] <andrew2221> I mean the resulted line and the filename with path..
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• 1777[14:53:25] <FinalX> andrew2221: xargs echo -n ? :)
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• 1790[14:58:32] <Krennic> hmm
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• 1792[14:59:09] <andrew2221> FinalX: Specifying | xargs.. does not show me any results (tho it's working in the background), and adding the path to the file (which I know), and using -wholename instead of -name, same, doesn't print anything out.
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• 1794[15:00:09] <FinalX> andrew2221: | xargs will get processed once it has enough lines to go on, so basically at the end of find
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• 1796[15:00:16] <tw> | tr $'\n' ' ' might also work.
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• 1799[15:00:45] <petemc> if you use the absolute path for find it will print absolute path
• 1800[15:01:01] <andrew2221> FinalX: Did not know that neither, thank you, let's see..
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• 1803[15:01:40] <andrew2221> petemc: I can't use absolute paths, folders are different, and need recursion.
• 1804[15:01:51] <petemc> what?
• 1805[15:02:03] <petemc> find /top/dir -type f...
• 1806[15:02:05] <andrew2221> Tho find is recursive afaik..
• 1807[15:02:12] <FinalX> andrew2221: oh, eh. I misread earlier. what path do you need to add to what file? the filename find outputs? and path being the full path it finds it in?
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• 1809[15:02:39] <FinalX> find is recursive, yes, and if you do find /full/path instead of find ., it will display /full/path as start instead of ./
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• 1812[15:03:42] <andrew2221> FinalX: I know where those 3 .inc files might be (if they are present), e.g. app/config/environment.inc, so I thought I can user -wholename 'app/config/environment.inc' -o ...
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• 1815[15:04:19] <andrew2221> FinalX: right, but in my case full path is not needed, so it's ok with ./
• 1816[15:04:33] <forcerecon> Hello Debian, I have been too #evolution and #pgp but no one is around so I am going to ask here.. - I am trying to understand pgp a little better.. when I download my public key and send it to someone as a text file. What lets say if they were using evolution or thunderbird would they do with it so that when they sent ME an email it was encrypted by default
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• 1818[15:04:39] <forcerecon> any information is appreciated
• 1819[15:04:47] <placko> I have TPLink TL-WN722N WiFi installed and it was working on my jessie intallation. After I updated and upgraded jessie WiFi stopped working. [Actually i am using backport repo here [in /etc/apt/sources.list I have 'deb replaced-url
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• 1821[15:04:50] <FinalX> andrew2221: -wholename would need to match the *ENTIRE* path, like /full/path/to/app/config/environment.inc and not app/config/environment.inc
• 1822[15:05:27] <tw> If you're using find -exec grep 'filtre' {}, you probably want grep -H 'filter' {} +
• 1823[15:05:40] <tw> -H prints filenames on matches.
• 1824[15:06:06] <jelly> andrew2221: you're allowed to use globs in -path, so find wherever -type f -path '*/app/config/environment.inc' ought to find those specific subfolders containing a specific file
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• 1830[15:07:45] <andrew2221> FinalX: :) I'm a newbie, hope you got it by now.. :) Thanks for specifying this.
• 1831[15:08:06] <andrew2221> jelly: Oh, ok.. Thank you.
• 1832[15:08:10] <FinalX> np :) think jelly's comment might help better
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• 1836[15:09:44] <jelly> not hard to go from there to: find ... -type -f \( -path ... -o -path ... -o -path ... \)
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• 1838[15:09:55] <andrew2221> jelly: Yes, this seems to speed up things a bit.. Now let's see with the -maxpath param..
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• 1840[15:10:18] <jelly> -maxdepth is nice yes
• 1841[15:11:48] <andrew2221> I ended up with this: find . -maxdepth 4 -type f -wholename '*/app/config/environment.inc' -o -wholename '*/app/config/environment_stage.inc' -exec grep -i 'server_sqldb' {} \; -print
• 1842[15:12:22] <jelly> put \( \) around those -wholename ... -o -wholename ...
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• 1844[15:12:51] <andrew2221> And it performs quite well, the only thing is missing now is the "path/to/file" "line with values" on the same line, each find in separate lines..
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• 1847[15:13:22] <jelly> tell grep to output the file name.
• 1848[15:13:31] <andrew2221> FinalX: |xargs put me everything in one line..
• 1849[15:14:04] <andrew2221> jelly: Ok, \(\) is present now.
• 1850[15:14:09] <GilesB> Is there anything I would do differently upgrading from wheezy to stretch? (prepare for an upgrade, check system status, change apt sources, minimal package updates then full package updates)
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• 1852[15:15:40] <FinalX> andrew2221: yeah, like I said, I misread your question
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• 1855[15:16:50] <andrew2221> Well, it's good enough for me the way it is like now. Greatly appreciate your help guys. :)
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• 1857[15:17:25] <andrew2221> FinalX: Thank you. jelly: Thank you.
• 1858[15:17:32] <FinalX> no prob, glad you got it sorted :)
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• 1862[15:18:31] <andrew2221> Have a nice day/night everyone.. :) Bye.
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• 1876[15:22:58] <person_> hi
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• 1878[15:23:59] <person_> for some reason music plays much more silent in rhytmbox than in clementine, but on ubuntu clementine plays louder than on debian
• 1879[15:24:03] <person_> what could be the reason?
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• 1883[15:26:58] <GilesB> What does `W: Ignoring Provides line with DepCompareOp for package xxxxxxx` mean
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• 1892[15:29:04] <person_> GilesB: I duckduckgoed it and this is what I found replaced-url
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• 1894[15:29:13] <tyrone> can somebody help me with my phone
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• 1896[15:29:32] <person_> does it run debian?
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• 1905[15:31:10] <GilesB> person_: Oh I guess because I am upgrading apt is too old.
• 1906[15:31:37] <jelly> person_: (install and) open pavucontrol, configure volume for each app while it plays something
• 1907[15:32:21] <jelly> GilesB: it means you're using repositories with features newer than what your apt version considers as valid
• 1908[15:32:36] <GilesB> jelly: Thanks got it.
• 1909[15:33:16] <jelly> either you're mixing repos from different releases (that leads to breakage!) or using a repo that's not properly configured for your debian release
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• 1917[15:37:02] <person_> jelly: thanks this solved the problem :) perhaps you know why it happens?
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• 1920[15:39:03] <jelly> person_: mostly because pulseaudio remembers things on a per-application basis, but distros forget to point you to the one most useful tool where you can actually see that
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• 1922[15:40:13] <jelly> desktop environment, like Gnome, also force their own mixer apps which inevitably also do not show the whole picture
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• 1925[15:40:29] <person_> jelly: good to know! I hope increasing the volume doesn't decrease the sound quality, but I assume it does when it's about 100%?
• 1926[15:40:44] *** Quits: sysvalve (~sysvalve@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1927[15:41:02] <jelly> you might get clipping if you go _above_ 100%
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• 1930[15:41:32] <person_> alright thanks!
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• 1932[15:42:41] <nvz> has there ever been a chkdisk substitute for checking and repairing ntfs made for Debian? I got a brand new passport 1tb on a remote system that I've been trying to backup to and its just over half full and everytime I log back in its remounted to a different location with buffer read errors in dmesg
• 1933[15:42:45] <eugenmayer> is there any way to use a boot-flag for the debian installer to avoid predictable names for interfaces like net.ifnames=0 ?
• 1934[15:42:45] *** Joins: sysvalve (~sysvalve@replaced-ip)
• 1935[15:43:42] <nvz> eugenmayer: the debian installer has a bootloader just like anything else, you should be able to edit the kernel command line and as I recall there is a kernel param to disable systemd's naming scheme though I don't remember what it is
• 1936[15:43:45] <johnkeates> nvz: ntfsfix?
• 1937[15:43:59] *** Quits: simmaniac (~sysvalve@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1938[15:44:30] <nvz> johnkeates: is this something third party? I checked the apt-cache on this machine and couldnt find anything. Its running jessie
• 1939[15:44:36] <jelly> nvz: there's no actual fsck for NTFS for Linux, use native tools
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• 1942[15:44:47] <johnkeates> nvz: it was part of ntfsprogs and is part of ntfs-3g now
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• 1944[15:44:54] <nvz> johnkeates: oh ok.
• 1945[15:44:55] <eugenmayer> nvz: the point is, if that will be valid "in-target"
• 1946[15:45:03] <eugenmayer> during the possibel chroot or whatever is done
• 1947[15:45:11] <jelly> nvz: the ntfsfix thing can only deal with a couple very simple issues
• 1948[15:45:16] <nvz> jelly: yes I been trying to get hold of someone out there to put it onto a windows machine and chkdisk it but nobody is answering
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• 1950[15:45:26] <johnkeates> ntfsfix is limited indeed.
• 1951[15:45:30] *** Parts: person_ (~person_@replaced-ip)
• 1952[15:46:10] <Devastator> I'm about to install debian to use samba as AD, any ideas on how can I partition my HDD for it? maybe use LVM? HDD size is 750GB
• 1953[15:46:59] <johnkeates> alway use lvm
• 1954[15:47:07] <johnkeates> maybe zfs or btrfs
• 1955[15:47:25] <nvz> well let me ask you this, what does these " Buffer I/O error on device" suggest to you? normally when I seen old drives failing its an issue of read/write IO, I never seen it say "buffer" before this is a new USB WD Passport 1TB that is only about 54% full so far
• 1956[15:47:38] *** Quits: remy (~remy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1957[15:47:40] <jelly> nvz: you could just download and boot a windows iso image, I _think_ those have chkdsk on them
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• 1960[15:48:00] <nvz> I mean I'm sure a chkdisk could correct any filesystem errors but if the hardware is failing thats a problem
• 1961[15:48:01] <Devastator> johnkeates does debian support zfs natively now?
• 1962[15:48:02] <johnkeates> get one of those free microsoft browser test images
• 1963[15:48:06] <johnkeates> Devastator: yes
• 1964[15:48:16] <johnkeates> Devastator: also no, but mostly yet
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• 1966[15:48:40] <Devastator> johnkeates eh, what? haha
• 1967[15:48:42] <nvz> jelly: this is a remote system, though it does already have several versions of windows in virtualbox but that doesn't really help me from here
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• 1971[15:49:40] <jelly> nvz: a remote system can run a VM solution like vbox, that can boot off iso and attach a usb drive
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• 1977[15:50:34] <nvz> jelly: well if you really think that's a resonable solution then I need some help with getting vnc to work over ssh because I tried it last night and it was giving me errors trying to connect
• 1978[15:50:35] <johnkeates> Devastator: i boot my debian from zfs directly
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• 1981[15:51:04] <jelly> nvz: vbox GUI is a X11 app, just run it over ssh -X
• 1982[15:51:18] <arosusi> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian buster/sid • CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz (1.46GHz) • Memory: Physical: 15.3 GiB Total (4.8 GiB Free) Swap: 64.8 GiB Total (64.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 5.4 TB / 12.4 TB (7.1 TB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Oland GL [FirePro W2100] @ Intel Corporation Core Processor DMI • Uptime: 5d 4h 29m 19s
• 1983[15:51:24] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip)
• 1984[15:51:38] <nvz> jelly: hmm.. does that have more overhead on my end because I am still on this damn orangepilite :P
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• 1987[15:53:00] * nvz logs off to reconnect with -X and try something simpler than vbox first
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• 1989[15:54:12] <nvz> is this a problem? it said "Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding." when I logged in.
• 1990[15:54:18] *** Joins: remy (~remy@replaced-ip)
• 1991[15:55:03] <nvz> apparently not, I ran a mate-terminal from the remote machine
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• 1996[15:57:35] <nvz> another thing that worries me about doing this is that I can't seem to run these apps in something like screen so if the connection gets lost and I'm trying to do a chkdsk in virtualbox thats not gonna be pretty
• 1997[15:57:36] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1998[15:58:40] <nvz> if I did vnc then the apps would stay running even if I lost connection
• 1999[15:58:51] <nvz> jelly: any thoughts on that aspect^
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• 2003[16:00:31] <nvz> I'm also thinking vnc would decrease overhead on the client side which is definately an issue considering I have less than 500mb ram and no video acccel on this machine
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• 2005[16:02:15] <jmcnaught> nvz: maybe try xpra?
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• 2008[16:02:41] <numbdewd> nvz: program 2>&1 & ?
• 2009[16:02:51] <numbdewd> (to run in backgruond.. however).. maybe not?
• 2010[16:03:13] <nvz> jmcnaught: hmm I never heard of that, seems interesting I'll test it with mate-terminal running htop and see if that works
• 2011[16:03:14] <jelly> nvz: valid point
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• 2013[16:03:25] <jelly> wrt losing connection
• 2014[16:03:35] <jelly> not wrt vnc, vnc is crap
• 2015[16:03:53] <jelly> or at least, linux vnc clients and servers are.
• 2016[16:04:05] <nvz> yes but thats the advantage in this case, its crap so I can lower the bpp and screen res and make it run real light
• 2017[16:04:13] <nvz> heh
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• 2019[16:04:36] <Devastator> does anyone here uses debian with samba and can advise me if I should use separated folders or all in / is ok?
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• 2022[16:05:01] <nvz> problem was I was doing ssh -L 5901:localhost:5901 and when I tried vncviewer :1 I got an error in ssh on the remote side
• 2023[16:05:04] <jelly> arosusi: you might want to disable (or avoid doing) that in #debian
• 2024[16:05:32] *** Joins: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip)
• 2025[16:05:32] * nvz tries this xpra thing
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• 2028[16:06:06] <numbdewd> set vnc to a non-default port as well, not 590x .. just a tip...just incase, yknow.. ^_-
• 2029[16:06:28] <tremolo> Devastator: If it's a file server and you have everything in one partition, you'll want to enable quotas or similar to make sure samba users don't fill your root partition.
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• 2032[16:06:50] <nvz> numbdewd: this is over ssh with key only access and highly temporary changing the port (which ssh is on a non-standard port) is hardly increasing security any
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• 2036[16:07:51] <numbdewd> o..
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• 2038[16:08:41] <nvz> hmm.. apparently I needed to install xpra on this side.. heh. I installed it on the remote side and read the manpage and it seems this is a viewer app not a server app. idk how the heck that works when it needs to stay running on the server side not here
• 2039[16:08:43] <Devastator> tremolo it will be an AD, any advise? maybe separated /home from /?
• 2040[16:09:12] *** Quits: pepsipeacecorp (uid245968@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2041[16:09:31] <tremolo> I've never used samba as a domain controller, so I probably don't have much useful input there.
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• 2046[16:11:11] <Devastator> tremolo hum, as a test I'm gonna try separated /home, let's see how it goes
• 2047[16:11:13] <Devastator> thank you!
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• 2052[16:13:11] <nvz> you may need to put in checks to make sure the filesystem is mounted before allowing a user to login when using a remote /home
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• 2054[16:13:19] <jelly> numbdewd: vnc is only safe bound to localhost, and accessed via ssh tunnel; port number is irrelevant after that
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• 2056[16:13:43] <numbdewd> oo.. not sure how that'd happen,but sounds smart ..nice
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• 2061[16:14:46] <jelly> ssh -L ...:localhost:... does the "accessed via ssh tunnel' bit
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• 2063[16:16:11] <nvz> numbdewd: many apps by default will bind to * or 0.0.0.0 which listen on all interfaces, but for particularly insecure applications you bind only on loopback, localhost, or 127.0.0.1 and then the only way to access them outside that machine is via ssh port forwarding
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• 2067[16:18:36] <numbdewd> nvz: aah.. cool.. nice
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• 2079[16:26:16] <nvz> numbdewd: changing ports only really stops the dumbest automated attacks anyhow, it will cut down on abuse but someone actually targeting you will just portscan you, and in that case your only defenses are things like fail2ban, active firewalls that detect this sort of thing, or using port knocking which keeps the port closed until a secret sequence of "knocks" are applied to the right ports, which will fool s
• 2080[16:26:22] <nvz> omeone port scanning
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• 2095[16:30:08] <nvz> problem I'm currently having is figuring out how to properly specify the non-standard ssh port on this xpra thing.. it seems to say ssh:user@host:port/display but that didn't work either.
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• 2100[16:31:15] <nvz> ah no, fwiw its ssh/user@host:port/display :)
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• 2107[16:35:25] <nvz> there was a mild learning curve but this xpra is really slick
• 2108[16:35:56] <numbdewd> "sslh accepts connections on specified ports, and forwards them further based on tests performed on the first data packet sent by the remote client." --- is this kinda like a 'port knocking' app ?
• 2109[16:36:13] <numbdewd> ( replaced-url
• 2110[16:36:33] <numbdewd> "Applicative Protocol Multiplexer (e.g. share SSH and HTTPS on the same port"
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• 2113[16:37:33] <nvz> wow.. this is incredibly smooth.. I'm running a 64bit XP off a remote machine via virtualbox on this orangepilite and its running as smooth as if it were running natively on the core2 duo on the other end, no lag at all
• 2114[16:37:34] <jelly> numbdewd: it's like a reverse proxy.
• 2115[16:38:06] <numbdewd> o..uh, hummm... hm . . . .
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• 2117[16:38:46] <nvz> jelly: an mc esher proxy :P
• 2118[16:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1615
• 2119[16:39:16] <jelly> something that looks at incoming requests and forwards the traffic to an appropriate backend service
• 2120[16:39:47] <numbdewd> o.. so kinda like port knocking with built-in forwarding routing-rules..kinda ?
• 2121[16:40:10] <jelly> it's not really port knocking, it's protocol knocking since only one port is used
• 2122[16:40:19] <nvz> nothing like port knocking, connecting to ssh binds the local port to a remote port
• 2123[16:40:34] *** Quits: dijenerate (~dijenerat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2124[16:40:42] <numbdewd> hm
• 2125[16:40:45] <numbdewd> ..k...hmh.
• 2126[16:41:19] <nvz> I could run vnc on a non-standard 7000 and bind that remote:7000 to local:5901 and then connect to localhost:1 with a vnc viewer and ssh handles the rest
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• 2128[16:41:46] <nvz> and does so over an encrypted connection without needing additional ports open on the router
• 2129[16:42:11] <SerajewelKS> it's a bit like a "light VPN", but not exactly
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• 2132[16:43:06] <jelly> port knocking is used when you don't want a service exposed right away. sslh does a bit of the opposite, multiple services are exposed
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• 2134[16:43:43] <jelly> not sure how it deals with protocols that require a banner on the server side
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• 2136[16:43:48] <jelly> like ssh
• 2137[16:44:30] <apollo13> you a) probably can just have one of those and b) it will present that after a certain timeout
• 2138[16:44:35] <SerajewelKS> maybe sslh can figure some out based on details of the TLS handshake
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• 2140[16:44:57] <SerajewelKS> e.g. HTTPS will probably using SNI, but ssh probably will not be
• 2141[16:44:59] <apollo13> SerajewelKS: there would be no tls handshake involved
• 2142[16:45:12] <apollo13> also on ssh the server is the one to send the first byte…
• 2143[16:45:25] <jelly> ssh doesn't try TLS at all, so that's a clue
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• 2145[16:45:32] <SerajewelKS> oh right, i forgot ssh does its own thing
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• 2149[16:45:48] <apollo13> jelly: clue is relative, the client doesn't provide __anything__ for ssh :)
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• 2152[16:46:17] <FinalX> we actually made a little program in the past that did autodetection of ssl/tls and ssh. if it was trying to do ssl/tls, it would forward it to the webserver, if not, to openssh.
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• 2155[16:46:31] <numbdewd> are there anywhere maintaining a list of hosts to "bounce" pings between for some reasons...like, one ping hostA, hostA pings hostB, if hostB up pings hostC etc..?
• 2156[16:46:50] <numbdewd> just wondered about uses, and possible reliability of something like ..(the following~>)
• 2157[16:46:51] <numbdewd> "pingfs is a filesystem where the data is stored only in the Internet itself, as ICMP Echo packets (pings) travelling from you to remote servers and back[..]implemented using raw sockets and FUSE[..]To run pingfs you have to create a lists of hosts to bounce your data on. Hosts far away give greater latency and bigger storage capacity, while very close hosts lower both properties by around a facto
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• 2161[16:47:24] <numbdewd> while possibly not disturbing the "natural flow" either..or much. maybe even take advantage of some lag for once
• 2162[16:47:37] <apollo13> FinalX: so basically your program detected if it got a byte from the client in the first 500ms and then redirected accordingly? :D I'd bet you can probably to that with iptables alone
• 2163[16:48:03] <SerajewelKS> apollo13: iptables is not stateful, not sure how you would implement that
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• 2167[16:48:43] <apollo13> SerajewelKS: not stateful? that is something you have to explain to me
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• 2169[16:49:09] <apollo13> if iptables is not stateful, how can you even know what return traffic is?
• 2170[16:49:17] <SerajewelKS> apollo13: iptables (generally) doesn't keep track of connections, it mostly operates on discrete packets. there are some exceptions (mostly in -m state).
• 2171[16:49:21] *** Quits: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2172[16:49:25] <apollo13> ;)
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• 2174[16:49:44] <babilen> replaced-url
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• 2178[16:50:20] <SerajewelKS> and for MASQUERADE it will keep track of some state. but generally, iptables has no context for a packet outside of that specific packet. plus, what you're talking about is triggering behavior if no packet is received for 500ms. i'm positive iptables doesn't have any mechanism to trigger behavior without an incoming packet.
• 2179[16:50:21] <apollo13> yeah, I was thinking of conntrack mainly, which is imo something basically everyone uses?
• 2180[16:50:22] <FinalX> apollo13: not sure exactly what we did. I still have the source here, but we stopped using it :) it was so people with firewalls that blocked ssh could ssh to port 443 while we would still have our website there.
• 2181[16:50:56] <SerajewelKS> iptables reacts to packets, it doesn't do anything on its own
• 2182[16:50:58] <apollo13> SerajewelKS: you might be right on the latter one, would have to check that
• 2183[16:51:00] <FinalX> apollo13: actually, I'm entirely wrong, checking the source now. I remember wrong: It didn't check for SSL/TLS. Only plain HTTP and SSH otherwise.
• 2184[16:51:14] <FinalX> And it was obviously only running on port 80, then.
• 2185[16:51:29] <apollo13> FinalX: not that it would make any diff ;)
• 2186[16:51:38] <FinalX> no, not really :)
• 2187[16:51:51] <SerajewelKS> FinalX: it's much easier to just configure the web server to permit "CONNECT 127.0.0.1:22" ;)
• 2188[16:52:08] <FinalX> nowadays, sure.
• 2189[16:52:12] <SerajewelKS> and proxy ssh over HTTP. i've done this before.
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• 2191[16:52:50] <FinalX> but with that thing you didn't need to do anything on the client side. ssh -p 80 would just work, as would replaced-url
• 2192[16:52:54] <numbdewd> also, and also good for places like..hotels, businesses etc. with some landing page when u connect to their wifi demanding registration.... if it allows dns or ping, may tunnel traffic thru that instead (icmp and/or dns queries apparently rarely disallowed,) too
• 2193[16:53:11] *** Joins: albertguedes (~albertgue@replaced-ip)
• 2194[16:53:18] <numbdewd> stunnel , shadowsocks .. ?
• 2195[16:53:22] * FinalX runs multiple VPN-servers on multiple ports and protocols :)
• 2196[16:53:33] *** Joins: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip)
• 2197[16:53:35] <FinalX> especially 53 udp is usually not blocked
• 2198[16:54:02] <numbdewd> oo..cool..good to know--will continue on that track then..hopefully figuring such a relay myself some time =D hmh
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• 2201[16:54:23] <SerajewelKS> a hotel we stayed at recently had paid wifi, but had free ethernet. good thing laptops are easily made into routers. :)
• 2202[16:54:30] <FinalX> hehehe
• 2203[16:54:39] <SerajewelKS> was faster anyway, no radio interference
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• 2206[16:54:45] <apollo13> FinalX: mhm I am getting more and more wifis were external DNS is blocked and TCP over DNS is no fun :D
• 2207[16:54:46] <numbdewd> ..any idea if when setup with dnscurve / curve dns , or possibly alternatively dnssec & dnscrypt , would still work as well (or at all), or those things complicate things..?
• 2208[16:54:46] *** Quits: k000_ (~k000@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2209[16:54:52] <FinalX> I always carry around a raspberry pi 3, it comes with both ethernet and a wlan built in
• 2210[16:55:09] <SerajewelKS> yeah for awhile i was making a point to take a wireless router with me when i traveled
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• 2212[16:55:19] <SerajewelKS> but that's kind of redundant when you have a computer, too
• 2213[16:55:21] <FinalX> there's little devices that do all of that now
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• 2215[16:55:28] <numbdewd> phone, cable, adapter + huge antenna hidden under coat
• 2216[16:55:44] <FinalX> trenchcoat, and get called a pervert?
• 2217[16:55:52] <SerajewelKS> i mean as much as i dislike windows, there's a single button you can press on windows 10 that creates a wireless AP for sharing access to an ethernet connection
• 2218[16:56:05] *** Quits: nse (~leo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2219[16:56:09] <FinalX> yeah. same with android 6/7 though.
• 2220[16:56:19] <FinalX> hook up wifi, mobile hotspot, done
• 2221[16:56:21] <SerajewelKS> well yeah, but for cellular
• 2222[16:56:28] <SerajewelKS> which usually isn't free ;)
• 2223[16:56:29] <jelly> there's a button for that in N-M, hidden quite well
• 2224[16:56:30] <FinalX> no, mine does for wifi too :)
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• 2226[16:56:44] <FinalX> (Samsung S7 with Android 7)
• 2227[16:56:45] <SerajewelKS> i mean it shares your cellular connection over wifi
• 2228[16:56:57] <apollo13> SerajewelKS: replaced-url
• 2229[16:56:57] <FinalX> it also reshares wifi connections over wifi
• 2230[16:57:00] <numbdewd> open wifi..and some app preset to auto remote root exploit & insert itself onto every visiting device, dns spoof,arp poison etc. along with sslstrip,sslsplit, mitmproxy, bettercap etc. and possibly injecting JS and some persistent backdoors of sorts too to top it off... so many phones connect to any open wifi...
• 2231[16:57:03] <apollo13> it is one click on gnome too ;)
• 2232[16:57:03] <FinalX> not just cellular
• 2233[16:57:13] <SerajewelKS> FinalX: that's.... very situational?
• 2234[16:57:34] <numbdewd> disaster waiting to happen ive bn thinkin.. too lazy to try get that sorta setup^ goin in a proper interesting way myself , lol, but assuming working as ive thought seems just a matter of gettin to it..hm
• 2235[16:57:46] <SerajewelKS> apollo13: maybe it's better than it used to be. i've had very bad luck with features like that just working.
• 2236[16:58:02] <apollo13> SerajewelKS: same can be said about that feature in win 10 XD
• 2237[16:58:22] <FinalX> howso? works excellently. I use my cellphone to share my cellular data _and_ wifi points on my own wifi network ("mobile hotspot") to all my other devices. only have to configure the phone. I always have my phone on, my laptop isn't always on
• 2238[16:58:25] <SerajewelKS> not had any issues with it before
• 2239[16:58:42] <numbdewd> mayb add dormancy to , besides dump wifi-info n other credentials, wait until into other network (like work/office) before it launches its mass attack , lol
• 2240[16:58:58] <numbdewd> ...wifi...bluetooth...all that......those packets flyin thru the air.. scary stuffz^^
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• 2244[16:59:17] <numbdewd> lol
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• 2248[17:01:43] <numbdewd> btw., i used the "gnuroot debian" on my old android phone.. just changed the repository list to state "stretch" instead of "jessie".....somewhere along the way i think something major got screwed? ..it keeps complaining about libc6 (and libc6- related thingies..) doesn't match..blabla...i can't remove it either.. that a very critical component is it..? maybe I did something wrong, does this s
• 2249[17:01:47] <numbdewd> ..sound like it should work..?
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• 2251[17:02:08] <numbdewd> ("along the way"; "apt-get update & apt-get dist-upgrade" )
• 2252[17:03:17] <JyZyXEL> can somebody tell me where can i find the actual build log on this page: replaced-url
• 2253[17:03:27] <jelly> numbdewd: you really want && there, not &
• 2254[17:03:36] <JyZyXEL> none of the links seem to go to the actual build log
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• 2256[17:04:15] <Dan2gM82hrbE5Qi5> hi guys
• 2257[17:04:38] <numbdewd> yeah sry, was meant for spelling, not the code.. my bad,not clarified... was thinkin bout taht myself after :z
• 2258[17:05:09] <numbdewd> thx tho! ..good info had i not known it already,n apprecciate the continued input despite my n00b-ness :P =]
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• 2260[17:05:14] <JyZyXEL> ah, you have to click the green "Installed" button :D
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• 2283[17:17:28] <Ormu> :O
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• 2289[17:18:35] <diamjdk> Is this channel for support?
• 2290[17:18:57] <Ormu> yes
• 2291[17:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1624
• 2292[17:19:25] <diamjdk> Ormu: thank you
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• 2294[17:20:16] <jelly> !ask
• 2295[17:20:17] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 2296[17:20:24] <Ormu> is FLEXlm/FLEXnet stuff still problematic to Linux bootloaders? Should I expect problems if I install some commercial software that apparently uses it, to this laptop that has both Lunux and Windows? I'm not completely sure if FLEXthing is mandatory with this software (I'm going to use USB hardlock) but I don't like nasty surprises :|
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• 2309[17:23:28] <diamjdk> I have a wireless card (Realtek) which only if i set parameter ant_sel=1 is having a strong signal. Otherwise it only shows one wifi network. I have tested this also with unstable kernel (4.12.x) and it is even worse. There i have to recompile the module from a github repository. Should i report it as a bug?
• 2310[17:23:45] <diamjdk> Module name: rtl8723be (forgotten!)
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• 2313[17:24:57] <Ormu> sounds like a bug to me judging by its consequences (deterioration of performance)
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• 2321[17:27:44] <jhutchins_wk> Is there an ntpd configuration that will prevent ntpq queries on localhost?
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• 2332[17:30:10] <diamjdk> jhutchins_wk: i am not sure.
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• 2346[17:34:19] <jhutchins_wk> I'm not sure that if you set a default of noquery and don't specifically allow queries from local host it will block them.
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• 2377[17:44:40] <jhutchins_wk> Answer: yes, if you do not exempt localhost (add a localhost line with only the restrictions that apply), ntpq will time out.
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• 2398[17:53:10] <mandeep> is ifconfig no longer installed by default?
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• 2400[17:53:38] <mandeep> or is ip the same thing
• 2401[17:53:39] <nvz> mandeep: idk but its on my stretch box, most use "ip" now instead, but either way you gotta be root to use it
• 2402[17:53:48] <mandeep> nvz: thanks
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• 2405[17:54:16] <nvz> mandeep: afaik ip does everything ifupdn,ifconfig,and route do all in one and probably more I havent really studied the manpage
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• 2410[17:56:21] <jelly> mandeep: "ip" is not the same thing but roughly equivalent.
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• 2413[17:57:23] <mandeep> nvz: jelly thanks
• 2414[17:57:31] <nvz> jelly: I'd only glanced at it and did one of those things where I'm too stubborn to learn a new command when the old ones work, but it looked to me like it could fully configure interfaces replacing all those other commands even route
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• 2417[17:58:09] <jelly> !ifconfig stretch
• 2418[17:58:10] <dpkg> Starting with Debian 9 <stretch>, net-tools package with ifconfig, route, netstat tools is not installed by default. replaced-url
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• 2420[17:58:38] <nvz> I probably have it because I upgraded from jessie
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• 2423[17:59:28] <nvz> mandeep: I hadn't considered the fact that I did a dist-upgrade from jessie, it appears you do need to manually install net-tools on stretch
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• 2427[18:00:13] <jelly> or learn to use the tools that Linux networking people have tried to recommend since kernel 2.4
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• 2429[18:00:39] <jelly> ip a <-- shorter to type than ifconfig
• 2430[18:00:55] <jelly> ip r <-- shorter than route
• 2431[18:00:57] <nvz> yeah but the syntax is a lot more cumbersome because it does so much more
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• 2434[18:01:18] <jelly> you don't need to learn all of it right away
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• 2436[18:01:59] <nvz> if you saw the script I have you'd probably laugh.. cause it wraps ifconfig, ifup/dn, iwconfig, etc and works pretty much exactly like ip :P
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• 2446[18:04:49] <nvz> I was resistant to even learn systemd until Don made some very compelling arguments. I'm starting to get comfortable with systemd and journalctl now. I suppose it wouldnt kill me to take a look at ip
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• 2449[18:05:29] <AreYouLoco> test
• 2450[18:05:34] <nvz> AreYouLoco: fail
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• 2453[18:05:42] <jelly> nvz: it still doesn't have automation-friendly output
• 2454[18:06:20] <nvz> jelly: you mean IP? Cause iwconfig/iwlist doesn't really either
• 2455[18:06:30] <jelly> you want to write scripts, still need to awk/grep the hell out of it. Worse than ifconfig
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• 2457[18:06:46] <nvz> I've played hell trying to get those leading whitespaces out of iwlist output
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• 2469[18:09:48] <nvz> I think some apps tend to use these weird chars that look like one thing but aren't. Because they didnt seem to behave like tabs or spaces. I wrote a scraper recently in python and came across a : char that was not a code 58, but like 8115 or something
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• 2476[18:13:51] <ChrisH> Is there any option to allow an ordinary user to start/stop Systemd services without the use of sudo? With SystemV init it was possible.
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• 2480[18:14:49] <zerocool> ChrisH: do the users not have sudo that need to start/stop the service?
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• 2482[18:15:08] <SerajewelKS> ChrisH: how was that possible with systemv?
• 2483[18:15:47] <zerocool> Im also curious... i can't think of a service i'd like a regualr user to be able to start/stop.
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• 2488[18:17:06] <zerocool> you might be able to script something... have an alias to a command that will edit a file (which is editable by them) then have a root crontab checking that file
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• 2493[18:18:06] <nvz> zerocool: transmission-daemon can be run as a normal user, and is start/stopped by systemd for example
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• 2497[18:18:56] <nvz> I'm at a loss for why not sudo though, its fairly simple to setup a command alias in sudo and give a user/group permissions to run that alias which contains all the start/stop/restart commands
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• 2499[18:19:22] <zerocool> nvz: well isn't this the reason there are init scripts in either /etc/systemd/system or /etc/systemd/user?
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• 2503[18:20:26] <nvz> zerocool: idk. I just crawled out from under a rock a few months ago and I'm still banging rocks and poking sticks at systemd trying to figure out if I should kill it and if so, can I eat it.. heh
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• 2505[18:20:52] <ChrisH> With SystemV init everyone an start scripts and if you have the needed permissions to open ports, logfiles, etc the service will start.
• 2506[18:21:00] <zerocool> don't fear systemd it's not as bad as they say.
• 2507[18:21:30] <ChrisH> I do not like sudo that much.
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• 2510[18:22:12] <zerocool> ChrisH: even if what you're saying is true those ports would be over 1000's somewhere, because everything under is protected and only accessible via either root or sudo.
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• 2512[18:23:22] <nvz> yeah well in my first few weeks every problem I encountered traced back to systemd somehow, and after some compelling arguments in favor of it, I began to learn the basics and I'm not really unhappy with it, and I'm learning. It makes complex things easy and easy things complex :P
• 2513[18:23:30] <zerocool> i do know that there are services that regular users can control but yeah they aren't allowed to open ports under like 1024... maybe that's your issues. it's a user level daemon that is trying to access privilaged ports
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• 2517[18:24:51] <zerocool> nvz: it's a break in compatibility from sysvinit and a lot of the help out there walks you through everything assuming you at least have the compatibility scripts in place to translate the old sysvinit commands into systemd language... it can be really annoying in that respect.
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• 2519[18:25:10] <nvz> I had a system failing to boot to the desktop the other day just because I added an fstab entry for a USB drive that was not mounting properly. Thats one example of how the big async machine that is systemd can complicate a simple matter
• 2520[18:26:18] <ChrisH> zerocool: I know very well about reserved ports and Co. These services are running as the given user and X all I now want is: allow this user X to start and stop the service. Permissions, Ports and Co are no problem here.
• 2521[18:26:25] <nvz> I haven't had time to further experiment with that, but I think it may need a bug filed, because a non-critical fs mounting to /media/ should not cause the unit to fail other units that depend on it. the vital fs should be seperated from the rest
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• 2523[18:26:56] <apollo13> nvz: did you had nofail in the fstab?
• 2524[18:27:17] <nvz> apollo13: I actually never thought of that. Good point
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• 2526[18:27:28] <apollo13> or nobootwait and friends
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• 2528[18:27:44] <nvz> I just had dump/pass set to 0 I never thought about other options
• 2529[18:28:04] <zerocool> nvz: what apollo13 said, i think this option predates systemd but i have been using systemd since it was in testing so i may be wrong. this is standard though, you have to add options to automounted volumes that might not be present at boot or are required for boot.
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• 2531[18:28:32] <apollo13> replaced-url
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• 2536[18:29:43] <nvz> zerocool: I'll try that, because I wanted to specify the mount point for that USB drive because I was going to be doing some semi-automated stuff remotely on it, and I didnt want it to be moving around and changing permissions on me.. which it has been doing ever since I commented that line out. It fails, and remounts to /media/user/My Passport1/ or such as normal perms and screws stuff all up
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• 2542[18:30:59] <bamb> how can i rename my new ethernet iface name to eth0?
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• 2544[18:31:14] <bamb> i have some new long hex name for the device thats hard to remember
• 2545[18:31:21] <zerocool> nvz: alternatively you can mount the volumes later as user but you have to do it via script basically just 'mount /dev/whatever /path/to/mount', when you login it'll run the script and mount the volume... i never do this myself so i can't remember where you'd do this but i think it's... /etc/rc.local
• 2546[18:31:38] <nkuttler> !tell bamb about udev mac
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• 2553[18:32:30] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: There's a kernel option to revert to the old interface naming convention.
• 2554[18:32:30] <annadane> does !tell work like that? or do you need dpkg: tell blah about blah
• 2555[18:32:32] <apollo13> nvz: in that case you might even wanna write your own mount unit and just ignore fstab
• 2556[18:32:51] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: For your own use /msg dpmg <factoid>.
• 2557[18:32:53] <bamb> which is the better way to do it? kernel arg or udev rules?
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• 2559[18:33:05] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: !tell is intended to send a PM to another user.
• 2560[18:33:07] <annadane> for your own use yes, but i mean in the chan
• 2561[18:33:11] <annadane> okau
• 2562[18:33:13] <annadane> okay*
• 2563[18:33:15] <apollo13> nvz: you could then write single shot units which react on the fact that you mounted the drive
• 2564[18:33:17] <nvz> alright well there is something seriously wrong here and IDK if its the drive, a USB port/hub or what.. because I was running chkdsk on this WD Passport (remotely) in virtualbox/win7 and yet again it did a Buffer I/O error and remounted while windows was running chkdsk
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• 2568[18:34:17] <nvz> that error is incredibly vague, I don't know if its saying the disk's IDE buffer is the issue, or if its talking about the cache on the system side
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• 2570[18:34:35] <nvz> perhaps I should check the smart data
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• 2572[18:35:01] <zerocool> ChrisH: honestly i thought X use to run as system and since maybe jessie they changed it to where X would run as user....
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• 2574[18:35:34] <zerocool> for security reasons
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• 2579[18:37:48] <donald1> I have a kali linux partition wich does not boot. I save datas of kali linux from another system I want to use dpkg --get-selections "*" to save the datas of kali from another system to save config of kali. when I run it it save the data of my own working system. how to execute it to rescue config files of kali?
• 2580[18:37:55] <nvz> zerocool: I'm running stretch with nodm on here, and jessie with lightdm on the remote machine and they are both running X as root, nodm su's to the user it autologs and lightdm does same, but the actual X server and initial DM process both run as root on both machines
• 2581[18:38:05] <ChrisH> zerocool: X is just a variable for $SOMEUSER not X as in X-Window
• 2582[18:38:52] <bamb> if /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules is not there, should i create it?
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• 2588[18:39:24] <nvz> donald1: first and foremost, welcome to #debian, we don't support kali linux here, its not debian. On a side note, that command only makes a list of installed packages nothing more
• 2589[18:39:43] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: No. It should be created automatically.
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• 2592[18:40:12] <nvz> donald1: try #kali-linux
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• 2595[18:40:36] <bamb> jhutchins_wk: how can i create it?
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• 2598[18:40:48] <bamb> manunally or do i have to run some scripts?
• 2599[18:41:20] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: replaced-url
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• 2601[18:41:44] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: It would be created automatically at boot by the old system, the new scheme replaces that function.
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• 2603[18:42:28] <bamb> the new system is udev. whats the old system called?
• 2604[18:42:55] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: The new system is part of systemd, the old is udev. I think the one before that was hald.
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• 2607[18:43:16] <bamb> ok
• 2608[18:43:17] <nvz> and devfs before that *shudders*
• 2609[18:43:34] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: Please read that page, it explains the system and offers three options to fix it.
• 2610[18:43:46] <bamb> jhutchins_wk: that freedesktop link doesnt say how to create the /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file
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• 2613[18:44:31] <nvz> bamb: because you don't have to create that file, you can do it via a kernel command line option among other things, the rules.d file is auto-generated as he said numerous times
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• 2616[18:45:04] <nvz> bamb: if you really want to see that file from jessie I can show you what it contains, but its not going to solve your problem. Just read that link and try one of the options it says
• 2617[18:45:04] <bamb> ohh i thought im supposed to either modify that file XOR use kernel args
• 2618[18:45:13] <bamb> ok
• 2619[18:45:49] <zerocool> ChrisH: I'm going to stay from my limited experience... the easiest and safest way to allow a non-sudo user to restart a system service is to have root check a file via cronjob, using a script. stick an alias in the users bashrc or what have you... so that 'service postfix restart' will echo '1' to a file that the script will check, if 1 in file then root will 'systemctl restart postfix'
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• 2623[18:47:06] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: That file is no longer relevant. That's an old page.
• 2624[18:47:22] <jhutchins_wk> bamb: One of the hazards of documenting an evolving system on the internet.
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• 2626[18:47:51] <zerocool> i wouldn't do this for a number of reasons but it seems safer than giving someone sudo that you don't trust but still allows them the ability to restart a specific privilaged service
• 2627[18:48:50] <jhutchins_wk> We need to update that factoid.
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• 2631[18:50:29] <zerocool> also remember to include if root finds 1 in file set to 0 or else it'll restart forever ;P
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• 2634[18:51:41] <nvz> dpkg udev mac ~= s#<udev>.#<udev>. This is outdated, for Stretch see replaced-url
• 2635[18:51:41] <dpkg> nvz: okay
• 2636[18:51:58] <nvz> !udev mac
• 2637[18:51:58] <dpkg> udev has the ability to statically rename Ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules, edit this file to change the mappings. To apply changes: «udevadm trigger» or reload the relevant driver module. See also <udev>.
• 2638[18:52:25] *** Quits: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2639[18:52:29] <nvz> dpkg udev mac =~ s#<udev>.#<udev>. This is outdated, for Stretch see replaced-url
• 2640[18:52:29] <dpkg> nvz: that doesn't contain '<udev>.'
• 2641[18:52:31] <jelly> msg the bot
• 2642[18:52:59] <nvz> jelly: dually noted. but I figured I was gonna screw up and it'd be better if someone saw it and told me wth I was doing wrong :P
• 2643[18:53:14] <jelly> =~ vs ~=
• 2644[18:53:43] <nvz> jelly: so I was right the first time then?
• 2645[18:54:01] <ChrisH> zerocool: I am not looking to workaround ideas. The users beeing able to login as user $USER are also allowed to login as root. It is the simple question, it it possible with systemd as it was with systemV init? From my resarch it looks like: no way without sudo.
• 2646[18:54:15] <jelly> yes :-)
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• 2656[18:57:42] <nvz> dondelelcaro: I'll be gone probably when you get this, but we were trying to update <udev mac> and dpkg isnt showing the changes.
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• 2665[19:01:13] <donald1> nvz: right see you soon
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• 2712[19:28:44] *** Joins: Mr-IRC-Worldwide (5b8703f0@replaced-ip)
• 2713[19:28:46] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> HI!
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• 2721[19:33:15] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> hi
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• 2725[19:33:57] <Tenkawa> hi all
• 2726[19:34:21] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> hi tenkawa!
• 2727[19:34:25] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> are you a native indian?
• 2728[19:34:27] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> i like your nick
• 2729[19:34:40] <Tenkawa> Its an old anime character
• 2730[19:34:54] <Tenkawa> Akito Tenkawa
• 2731[19:34:57] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> you into that kind of stuff then?
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• 2733[19:35:15] <Tenkawa> I use to watch a lot of anime
• 2734[19:35:24] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> i watch family guy
• 2735[19:35:34] <Tenkawa> always wanted to do music for them
• 2736[19:35:45] <Tenkawa> but never got into it
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• 2738[19:35:57] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> u good at making music then?
• 2739[19:36:01] <jelly> !offtopic
• 2740[19:36:02] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 2741[19:36:13] <Tenkawa> heh knew that was coming
• 2742[19:36:21] <Mr-IRC-Worldwide> sorry dkpg, will move to off-topic
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• 2749[19:37:43] <Tenkawa> now on to a real question.. anyone done much debugging on the sdio mmc code in recent kernels? trying to figure out why a cherrytrail device can see the controller but not the cards
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• 2753[19:38:28] <jelly> those low-power platforms are still missing a lot of support
• 2754[19:39:11] <Tenkawa> yeah I know ..
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• 2762[19:45:30] <bamb> is statelessness of the system Image a goal of Linux? ie if i put the linux hard disk into another computer, it should still boot?
• 2763[19:46:03] <nix64bit> jelly: i think its time for the naughty list
• 2764[19:46:42] <nix64bit> whats the smallest device that has ever supported linux?
• 2765[19:46:54] <allan_wind> bamb: it will probably boot if same architecture unless it's efi then you usually need to configure that
• 2766[19:47:07] <teraflops> bamb: depends on the setup/hw, usually yes it should
• 2767[19:47:31] <teraflops> bamb: same for windows i think
• 2768[19:48:03] <hazzy> bamb: I move my SSD around to different machines all the time, always boots fine
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• 2771[19:48:56] <jelly> bamb: even when it doesn't, it usually isn't too hard to fix it
• 2772[19:49:02] <hazzy> I don't even shut down, just hibernate :P
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• 2774[19:49:41] <jelly> hazzy: now that's unsupported really
• 2775[19:49:41] <allan_wind> I am seeing packet loss with a freshly installed debian 9.1 install. There is no packet loss in rescue mode. How do I troubleshoot this?
• 2776[19:49:52] <jhutchins_wk> hazzy: It's still possible to hit hardware that doesn't get all of the packages it needs without manual intervention.
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• 2778[19:50:50] <jelly> allan_wind: how are you testing for packetloss?
• 2779[19:51:36] <allan_wind> jelly: mtr from a remote host on same wireless router / switch, and using wired ethernet 1gbit
• 2780[19:52:07] <jhutchins_wk> allan_wind: Do you see losses for ping?
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• 2782[19:53:03] <bamb> which way of changing my net interface name back to eth0 is better? "ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link" or passing net.ifnames=0 to the kernel through grub?
• 2783[19:53:07] <allan_wind> jhutchins: yes, tcpdump from mtr session shows sender (vent) sends packets but does not get response, and troubled laptop (toofan) does not get said echo request packages
• 2784[19:53:13] <teraflops> allan_wind: same kernel? same driver? do you have sw running while not in rescue mode that is using all your bandwidth? (as in p2p).
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• 2787[19:54:36] <teraflops> it could even be malware that is opening a bunch of connections :P
• 2788[19:54:38] <allan_wind> teraflops: hmm... not sure exactly what diff is between normal and rescue boot is other than it doesn't start a bunc of servers. vanilla install, nothing running on it other than xfce, ssh, print server, and apache
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• 2790[19:55:02] <teraflops> so you start a bunch of servers whatever that means
• 2791[19:55:03] <allan_wind> teraflops: tcpdump suggest it's pretty much idle
• 2792[19:55:16] <allan_wind> teraflops: just select that stuff during install
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• 2794[19:55:37] <allan_wind> (task select, I believe)
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• 2796[19:56:06] <teraflops> run netstat and iftop/nethogs
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• 2799[19:56:23] <jelly> allan_wind: uh, you said wireless. Some package loss is normal.
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• 2801[19:56:42] <jelly> the difference between rescue mode and normal boot, however, is weird
• 2802[19:56:43] <teraflops> nethogs > iftop ;)
• 2803[19:56:43] <allan_wind> netstat shows 0 for errors, collisions. I am using wired, wireless not configured yet
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• 2805[19:57:52] <jelly> if tcpdump on your destination does not even get to see incoming packets, it's a driver or hw issue
• 2806[19:57:54] <teraflops> allan_wind: see bandwitdh usage and opened connections, that's a start
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• 2809[19:58:24] <jelly> allan_wind: is there any difference between machine on AC power and machine on battery power?
• 2810[19:58:28] <allan_wind> teraflops: I ran a bandwidth test, iperf, and it looks fine. If hardware issue why would rescue mode work?
• 2811[19:58:37] <allan_wind> jelly: let me try...
• 2812[19:59:02] <jelly> power saving features may cause performance degradation
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• 2814[19:59:12] <teraflops> allan_wind: when you say rescue mode you mean chroot?
• 2815[19:59:16] <teraflops> same kernel?
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• 2818[19:59:47] <teraflops> compare installed kernel with running one
• 2819[19:59:48] <allan_wind> teraflops: it's a grub option, I think it runs a different run level
• 2820[20:00:00] <jelly> teraflops: grub menu -> advanced options -> recovery ("single user mode", used to be called)
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• 2823[20:00:28] <teraflops> oh I was thinking on the debian installer
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• 2825[20:00:36] <teraflops> it has a rescue mode too
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• 2827[20:01:33] <allan_wind> nethogs show 0, btw
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• 2832[20:02:15] <allan_wind> one other weird thing is that it asymmetric; mtr from vent to toofan shows packet loss, but not from toofan to vent. toofan is laptop with issues
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• 2835[20:03:18] <teraflops> checked nic with e.g ethtool?
• 2836[20:03:30] <teraflops> it can be the cable too
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• 2841[20:04:00] <allan_wind> teraflops: well, kinda, both shows 1000 duplex auto negotiated. Tried swapping cables, and switch
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• 2843[20:04:38] <allan_wind> jelly: packet loss on ac and battery
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• 2845[20:05:04] <jelly> allan_wind: and in rescue mode, no loss with either?
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• 2849[20:05:54] <teraflops> allan_wind: maybe it's just coincidence? because what you describe is a bit odd
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• 2852[20:06:49] <allan_wind> teraflops: it's very odd, and I am totally stumped. The two laptops are quite similar
• 2853[20:06:54] <allan_wind> (btw)
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• 2856[20:07:18] <allan_wind> I was thinking hardware till I saw no packet loss in rescue mode
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• 2858[20:07:30] <jelly> once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action
• 2859[20:07:34] <allan_wind> dmesg, syslog look clean
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• 2861[20:07:58] <allan_wind> this is 100% reproducable within 50 or 100 packets or so
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• 2864[20:09:11] <jelly> allan_wind: boot to rescue mode, test things out, then don't reboot but do... um, "systemctl start graphical.target" I think
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• 2866[20:09:25] <jelly> whatever the equivalent of "init 3" is
• 2867[20:09:33] <jelly> sorry, init 2 on debian
• 2868[20:10:30] <allan_wind> sorry, it's called recovery mode (not rescue mode; that might be the installer)
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• 2872[20:10:49] <jelly> that thing.
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• 2890[20:17:26] <vook> how can I prevent modules in kernel/zfs from being loaded and instead force modules in extra/zfs to be loaded?
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• 2895[20:18:35] <vook> in a way that persists across kernel upgrades, etc.
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• 2899[20:19:22] <allan_wind> hmm.... recovery mode does not start the network like it did earlier (with a 9.1 install that I had made some config changes, installed packages, nvidia drver etc). I think you mean graphical.target, jelly, no?
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• 2901[20:20:06] <jelly> probably
• 2902[20:20:28] <jelly> isn't that what I wrote
• 2903[20:21:11] <allan_wind> systemctrl isolate graphical?
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• 2905[20:22:16] <jelly> dunno, try "replace" first
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• 2907[20:22:53] <allan_wind> jelly: ah... start works but you need to specify the full graphical.target name
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• 2911[20:24:03] <jelly> still broken after that?
• 2912[20:24:16] <allan_wind> jelly: running mtr... fine so far
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• 2915[20:24:46] <allan_wind> and we got packet loss
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• 2918[20:27:01] <jelly> great. So now you "just" have to look at the differences in set of services started for recovery.target and graphical.target, and do a binary search to find which service is to be blamed :-)
• 2919[20:27:07] * jelly hides
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• 2923[20:27:21] <allan_wind> heh
• 2924[20:27:39] <teraflops> allan_wind: does netstat -s say something interesting?
• 2925[20:27:47] <allan_wind> teraflops: not to me
• 2926[20:27:48] <jelly> I'd bet on something power-save related
• 2927[20:27:59] <teraflops> jelly: hmm
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• 2931[20:29:25] <jelly> allan_wind: on easy thing to try is go recovery, then multi-user.target instead of graphical
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• 2935[20:30:37] <teraflops> indeed that's the only difference
• 2936[20:30:56] <jelly> the only difference between what
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• 2939[20:31:08] <teraflops> recue mode and normal system
• 2940[20:31:12] <jelly> nope
• 2941[20:31:54] <allan_wind> testing multi-user...
• 2942[20:32:09] <teraflops> there are more? or there arent any?
• 2943[20:32:19] <allan_wind> takes a few min to run
• 2944[20:32:27] <jelly> it's a different set of services.
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• 2946[20:32:56] <teraflops> powersaving is about kernel driver if you meant the nic
• 2947[20:33:02] <jelly> multi-user.target resembles "init 3" on redhat, running system without GUI
• 2948[20:33:06] <teraflops> not sure how the target is related
• 2949[20:33:08] <allan_wind> packet loss
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• 2951[20:33:28] <jelly> so it's something that gets started even without GUI
• 2952[20:33:28] <allan_wind> I am trying to convince systemctl to give me a dependency graph
• 2953[20:33:31] <teraflops> unless he is running powertop or whatever
• 2954[20:33:50] <allan_wind> powertop is installed by default
• 2955[20:33:55] <teraflops> :S
• 2956[20:34:16] <jelly> but you didn't tell it to enable stuff
• 2957[20:34:39] <allan_wind> right, complete vanilla debian 9.1
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• 2962[20:35:35] <jelly> so let's assume it's not powertop because it never actually runs
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• 2964[20:35:59] <allan_wind> sysinit -> multi-user -> graphical
• 2965[20:36:25] <allan_wind> sysinit -> basic -> multi-user -> graphical, I mean
• 2966[20:36:36] <jelly> is there a basic?
• 2967[20:36:40] <allan_wind> yeah
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• 2969[20:37:12] <allan_wind> there are other targets too, not sure how they come into pic yet
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• 2972[20:38:26] <jelly> I'd ask in #systemd about the easiest way to do something like a binary search to find out which service from multi-user.target results in degradedation you're seeing
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• 2976[20:39:00] <jelly> because masking services one by one, rebooting and testing would be painful
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• 2980[20:40:31] <allan_wind> playing with list-dependencies arg now... isn't it weird that behavior of recovery mode changed? In previous install it started the network, and I had mtr running all night without packet loss, after reinstall it doesn't start the network
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• 2982[20:41:10] <jelly> same debian release?
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• 2985[20:41:39] <allan_wind> yeah, only diff is that I customized the older install (added a user, packages, nvidia drver etc)
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• 2987[20:41:56] <allan_wind> I mean, it's not strange like the packet loss stuff just unexpected to me
• 2988[20:42:10] <psychoticwarrior> whats up
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• 2990[20:43:10] <jelly> I don't have any ready excuse for that. jessie with sysvinit used to set up networking for single user, no idea what stretch is supposed to do
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• 2992[20:43:58] <allan_wind> systemctl -r list-dependencies is the ticket for listing the dependency graph. pretty and all
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• 3016[20:56:06] <allan_wind> what is the systemd equivalent of figuring out your current run-level?
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• 3019[20:57:36] <allan_wind> I think recovery mode is sysinit.target but I would like to verify
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• 3024[20:58:48] <greycat> I think the nearest equivalent is systemctl list-units --type=target
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• 3036[21:02:44] <jmcnaught> 'systemctl list-units --type=target --all' to all of them. rescue.target is probably what allan_wind wants. 'systemctl list-dependencies rescue.target' lists networking.service
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• 3042[21:05:59] <allan_wind> well, trying to figure out current state
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• 3059[21:17:22] <Agiofws> is there such a thing as debian minimal? i'm thinking of setting up a samba server
• 3060[21:17:45] <greycat> Do a netinst and un-select everything that isn't "Standard" or possibly "SSH Server"
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• 3066[21:20:59] <jelly> or just deselect everything and build on that
• 3067[21:21:13] <jelly> doesn't get a lot more minimal than that
• 3068[21:21:36] <jmcnaught> allan_wind: 'systemctl get-default' to see what it will boot into. there's also a set-default command.
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• 3070[21:22:10] <jmcnaught> allan_wind: otherwise targets are like other systemd units, you can check their status, dependencies etc
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• 3072[21:24:06] <bamb> how can i make eth0 drop its dynamic IP?
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• 3076[21:25:22] <Agiofws> greycat, i already have debian 9 with gnome on that host maybe i could convert that into a minimal server by removing packages? or maybe i should install minimal debian through the net install cd
• 3077[21:25:49] <greycat> Either way should work. It's a toss-up which one is more effort.
• 3078[21:26:05] <jmcnaught> bamb: is eth0 configured in /etc/network/interfaces? Did you try 'ifdown eth0'?
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• 3080[21:26:44] <bamb> jmcnaught: is that different than ifconfig eth0 down?
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• 3084[21:27:33] <bamb> jmcnaught: ifdown looked like it released the ip, but then ifup eth1 looks like it renewed the lease
• 3085[21:27:51] <jmcnaught> bamb: yes. now's probably a good time to stop using ifconfig (use ip command from iproute2 instead)
• 3086[21:28:09] <bamb> i have "iface eth0 inet manual" in my interfaces file
• 3087[21:28:10] <jmcnaught> bamb: of course ifup would renew the lease, why wouldn't it?
• 3088[21:28:27] <bamb> jmcnaught: it shouldnbt renew the lease because of my interfacves file
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• 3091[21:29:34] <jmcnaught> bamb: can you make a pastebin of your interfaces file, and also the commands and output you have been using?
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• 3109[21:37:24] <bamb> jmcnaught: here is the info you requested: replaced-url
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• 3111[21:37:57] <bamb> "ifdown eth0" correctly releases the IP on eth0
• 3112[21:38:04] <bamb> but upon reboot, the IP is back
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• 3115[21:38:33] <bamb> jmcnaught: i have a network bridge setup, so eth0 should not have an IP. on xenbr0
• 3116[21:38:41] <bamb> only xenbr0*
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• 3129[21:43:03] <bamb> jmcnaught: any idea what im doing wrong?
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• 3131[21:45:03] <TealFlamingo> Trying to install Debian 9 I get the "No Kernel Modules Found" error. I tried with the "debian-9.1.0-i386-netinst.iso" and the "debian-live-9.1.0-i386-mate.iso" (both times I wrote the images using the recommended cp method). I googled around but I couldn't find anything helpful, any ideas?
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• 3145[21:48:28] <jmcnaught> bamb: any files in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ ?
• 3146[21:48:30] <SerajewelKS> TealFlamingo: at which point do you receive that error?
• 3147[21:48:50] <bamb> ya
• 3148[21:48:52] <bamb> setup
• 3149[21:49:05] <bamb> ohh shot
• 3150[21:49:06] <bamb> shoot
• 3151[21:49:09] <bamb> thats the issue
• 3152[21:49:11] *** Joins: AreYouLoco (~areyouloc@replaced-ip)
• 3153[21:49:16] <bamb> iface eth0 inet dhcp
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• 3158[21:49:52] <bamb> can i just delete that setup file?
• 3159[21:50:24] <TealFlamingo> SerajewelKS, at the start of installation process after selecting language and keymaps.
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• 3162[21:50:39] <jelly> bamb: you're the second person with an /etc/network/interfaces.d/setup file that I've heard of
• 3163[21:50:52] <jelly> bamb: and yes, it's okay to delete it
• 3164[21:51:11] <jhutchins_wk> This is on stable?
• 3165[21:51:17] <jmcnaught> bamb: any time you're unsure about deleting a file, mv it somewhere else instead
• 3166[21:51:19] <bamb> 9.1
• 3167[21:51:20] <bamb> ya
• 3168[21:51:20] * jelly wonders wtf that comes from
• 3169[21:51:32] <greycat> ,file interfaces.d/setup
• 3170[21:51:36] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
• 3171[21:51:48] * Unline hi
• 3172[21:51:53] <allan_wind> systemctl start networking did not not fire up my network in recovery mode, so just to ensure my sanity in recovery mode, I added my network to /etc/network/interfaces and ifup -all. Not seeing packet loss. So next step is to start each service one by one?
• 3173[21:51:55] *** Joins: Scaniatrucker (~mindaugas@replaced-ip)
• 3174[21:51:58] <bamb> also, in my interfaces file, should i add "auto eth0" line?
• 3175[21:52:27] *** Joins: donald1 (~donald@replaced-ip)
• 3176[21:52:29] <jelly> replaced-url
• 3177[21:52:30] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 3178[21:52:49] <bamb> since its a bridge, i dont want it to have an IP, but i want it to be "bridgeable"
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• 3180[21:52:55] <jmcnaught> bamb: no you don't want auto eth0
• 3181[21:52:59] <bamb> k
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• 3186[21:53:46] <greycat> dpkg, auto is <reply>Interfaces marked "auto" are waited for by things that wait for the network to be up (like systemd's network-online.target). "allow-hotplug" means the interface is removable or not always needed, so network-online won't wait for it.
• 3187[21:53:46] <dpkg> greycat: okay
• 3188[21:54:04] <greycat> dpkg, allow-hotplug is <reply>see auto
• 3189[21:54:05] <dpkg> greycat: okay
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• 3192[21:54:47] <jmcnaught> allan_wind: was your network not already in /e/n/interfaces? All networking.service does is bring up those interfaces
• 3193[21:54:50] <donald1> I asked how to do something in kali linux here. somebody told me to ask in #kali-linux but here they told it is not a kali specific question and I can ask here. I have a kali linux partition wich does not boot. I save datas of kali linux from another system I want to use dpkg --get-selections "*" to save the datas of kali from another system to save config of kali. when I run it it save the data of my own working system. how to execute it to rescue c
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• 3196[21:55:52] <jmcnaught> allan_wind: look at 'systemctl cat networking' and check the directives that start with Exec
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• 3198[21:56:09] <annadane> donald1, that somebody is wrong
• 3199[21:56:14] <annadane> !based on debian
• 3200[21:56:14] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 3201[21:56:54] <greycat> Also your text was so long you got cut off before the actual question.
• 3202[21:57:10] <SerajewelKS> donald1: if the problem happens with kali linux then it is kali linux specific
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• 3204[21:57:29] <greycat> Don't msg people.
• 3205[21:57:48] <greycat> 15:57 <-donald1[~donald@unaffiliated/donald] when I run it it save the data of my own working system. how to execute it to rescue config files of kali? Fell free to get example from debian
• 3206[21:57:50] <donald1> if I got the error with debian what would you do?
• 3207[21:57:59] <greycat> WHAT ERROR
• 3208[21:58:30] <greycat> All you said was "partition would not boot" but that could be ANYTHING. Is it a swap partition? Is it a random file system like /usr or /porn?
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• 3210[21:59:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1642
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• 3213[22:00:29] <greycat> If your actual question is "how to I use dpkg --get-selections", then /msg dpkg reinstall
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• 3216[22:01:21] <[itchyjunk]> i tried booting with the debianlivecd on several laptops and none of them showed wifi options.. does the livecd no come with any wireless card drivers?
• 3217[22:01:32] <[itchyjunk]> tried on 4 different ones..
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• 3220[22:01:57] <jelly> SerajewelKS: apparently #kali-linux policy is to push any question that looks like an issue anywhere upstream to some place else. It results in a ping-pong with users given #debian's policy to push any issue in a derivative distro downstream
• 3221[22:02:21] <jelly> it's annoying and frankly rude, from both channels
• 3222[22:02:42] <jmcnaught> [itchyjunk]: Debian ISO images don't come with non-free firmwares. Look in replaced-url
• 3223[22:03:03] *** Joins: HugsWontletgo (~HugsWontl@replaced-ip)
• 3224[22:03:47] <antena-cli> Hi! I have a huge problem. I've installed Debian stretch and it's all up to date. But when I try to rename files in certain folders (Downloads/ and Vídeos/) I just can't do it anymore. Out of nowhere this started to happen in Nemo 3.2.2. I'm using Cinnamon. What can I do, other than installing another file manager? I can't rename the files in those folders with the rename option in the menus or
• 3225[22:03:51] <[itchyjunk]> ahh excillent! ty jmcnaught
• 3226[22:04:00] <antena-cli> pressing F2. Nothing happens. It's like I didn't even tried.
• 3227[22:04:12] <donald1> jelly: I just hope the lead will not extend to #linux ;)
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• 3230[22:04:24] <annadane> jelly, will keep that in mind. wasn't trying to be intentionally rude
• 3231[22:05:01] <greycat> jelly: do you honestly thing it's wrong of us to send non-Debian users to their respective channels?
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• 3235[22:05:31] <jhutchins_wk> donald1: You might also /msg dpkg apt-clone
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• 3237[22:05:38] <greycat> If we don't, then we end up supporting ALL of the ubuntu users. And if that happens, I'm gone. Period.
• 3238[22:05:47] <jhutchins_wk> I think he's talking about having an ofline backup parttion.
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• 3241[22:06:36] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: If it's a generic question, we can try to answer, but we can't be sure a generic anwer applies to their derivative.
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• 3244[22:06:59] <jhutchins_wk> We can say "try at your own risk", but they'll never hear that.
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• 3246[22:07:12] <annadane> donald1, this all being said you really should be able to ask that in kali no matter what they tell you
• 3247[22:07:32] <annadane> anyway
• 3248[22:07:42] <greycat> They probably reflex-kicked him because he couldn't ask a simple, straight question that anyone could understand.
• 3249[22:07:48] <kimocoder> ask the Google
• 3250[22:08:02] *** Joins: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip)
• 3251[22:08:07] <jelly> greycat: when the policies are incompatible in this way, someone has to fix it
• 3252[22:08:08] <AreYouLoco> ask DuckDuckGo
• 3253[22:08:55] *** Quits: Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3254[22:09:16] <jelly> greycat: so if the user is using kali, and their issue sounds it might be caused by something more generic (like an upstream issue), we night try pointing them to ##linux as well
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• 3257[22:09:56] <donald1> many people download linux becuase they trust the concept of conviviality. It is interesting to know ubuntu is a african word to describ human communication
• 3258[22:09:59] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: and preferably answer their question in ##linux instead of here
• 3259[22:10:38] <greycat> donald1: so what is your actual question?
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• 3263[22:12:20] <SerajewelKS> jelly: i'm not entirely sure it's rude to push downstream, i mean we can't track every single change that every derivative makes in order to determine where the problem lies?
• 3264[22:12:37] <jelly> SerajewelKS: playing table tennis with actual people who have actual issues is more wrong than figuring out whose channel policy is more right or more wrong
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• 3271[22:13:38] <jelly> SerajewelKS: we assume the issue is downstream. That's not correct 100% of the time. #kali-linux assumes the issue is upstream. That assumption is not correct 100% of the time.
• 3272[22:13:48] <jelly> now what
• 3273[22:14:00] *** Joins: philipballew (~philip@replaced-ip)
• 3274[22:14:07] <annadane> that's very true. sorry, donald1
• 3275[22:14:38] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: ##linux isn't going to be very helpful on questions about dpkg or other Debian-based stuff.
• 3276[22:15:14] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: then it's in our interest to make it helpful
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• 3279[22:15:36] <jelly> there is no ##dpkg-based channel on freenode
• 3280[22:15:48] <jhutchins_wk> donald1: It is a convivial community, but there are practical reasons for not supporting derivatives here. We can't know what they've changed, and it often is the very thing someone is asking about.
• 3281[22:15:54] <SerajewelKS> let's make one. with blackjack and hookers.
• 3282[22:16:03] <jmcnaught> maybe we need a ##debian-based channel
• 3283[22:16:32] <somiaj> I would say maybe freenode needs one, if debian wanted to have a #debian-based channel that would over on oftc.
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• 3287[22:16:59] <jelly> in the meantime ##linux is the next best thing
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• 3291[22:17:55] <jelly> unless you're willing to bootstrap a ##debian-based+bj&h
• 3292[22:18:05] *** Quits: CrazyEddy (crazyed@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3293[22:18:22] <jhutchins_wk> I think we should all storm #kali and start discussing dpkg theory and practice.
• 3294[22:18:52] <n4dir> jhutchins_wk: :-)
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• 3297[22:19:17] <jelly> that will get you a +b here
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• 3300[22:21:05] <donald1> jhutchins_wk: right I will try to be as responsible as possible
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• 3305[22:23:53] <klys> jelly, ##linux isn't a very good channel for technical discussion afaik.
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• 3307[22:24:22] <bamb> ok, i have eth0 without an IP and xenbr0 has the static IP, which is corect
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• 3309[22:24:46] <jelly> bamb: both are correct
• 3310[22:24:48] <klys> bamb, xenbr0 should have eth0 in brctl show
• 3311[22:24:52] <bamb> now my Xen DomU is not booting when i try to add the bridge to its configuration file. how can i ensure that the bridge is workign correctly?
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• 3313[22:25:04] <jelly> that's what bridging looks like when configured
• 3314[22:25:24] <bamb> yes, brctl show xenbr0 has eth0 under uinterfaces column
• 3315[22:25:28] <jelly> bamb: what does "brctl show xenbr0" say in dom0
• 3316[22:25:40] <bamb> yes, brctl show xenbr0 has eth0 under interfaces column
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• 3318[22:25:42] <jelly> then you configured your bridge correctly I guess
• 3319[22:25:56] <bamb> hmm how can i ensure that its visible elsewhere on the system?
• 3320[22:26:00] <bamb> names to Xen?
• 3321[22:26:02] <bamb> namely*
• 3322[22:26:09] <klys> bamb, make sure openvswitch is running too
• 3323[22:26:10] <jelly> bamb: can you access dom0 from outside, or connect to internet from dom0
• 3324[22:26:16] <bamb> mainly**
• 3325[22:26:28] <bamb> ok i can ping the internet from the box
• 3326[22:26:35] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3327[22:26:43] <bamb> and i can ssh in from outside
• 3328[22:26:46] <jelly> so that part is fine. now you need to set up the xen-facing side
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• 3330[22:26:55] <jelly> which I blissfully know nothing about :-)
• 3331[22:26:56] <bamb> i se hte driver "bridge" loaded too
• 3332[22:27:40] <bamb> dmesg shows xen:manage: Unable to read sysrq in control/sysrq
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• 3334[22:27:45] <bamb> does that mean anything to anyone?
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• 3342[22:29:22] <bamb> heres the last few lines of dmesg: replaced-url
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• 3344[22:29:38] <bamb> other than that xen line, everything looks OK
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• 3355[22:32:33] <Mathisen> is install of phpmyadmin broken in strech or something ?
• 3356[22:32:35] *** Joins: AreYouLoco (~areyouloc@replaced-ip)
• 3357[22:33:11] <Mathisen> it does not seem to set up as it should, cant even log in as root@localhost when installed
• 3358[22:33:17] <mvaenskae> cheers, can someone tell me if the guide given here is enough to build my own glibc on debian with lock elision disabled? this is for a development VM and i know i may shoot myself in the foot -- i do have a backup of the VM in question as well
• 3359[22:33:25] <mvaenskae> replaced-url
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• 3367[22:36:31] <jmcnaught> Mathisen: the way root logins work for mariadb in stretch has changed, I think the note about it is either in the README.Debian or NEWS file for the mariadb-server-10.1 package
• 3368[22:36:32] *** Quits: baptist (~baptsk@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3369[22:36:58] <greycat> or at the bottom of replaced-url
• 3370[22:37:24] *** Joins: AreYouLoco (~areyouloc@replaced-ip)
• 3371[22:38:05] <Mathisen> ahh ok il do some reading, and yes it was upgraded
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• 3382[22:42:04] <jelly> mvaenskae: are you actually triggering the issue on debian 9?
• 3383[22:42:20] *** Joins: rick8024 (~andreas@replaced-ip)
• 3384[22:42:59] <mvaenskae> debian 9, correct
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• 3387[22:44:35] <mvaenskae> i have little idea as to what is happening as well because the software in question (that is vivado) crashes on some project, not on another
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• 3391[22:46:48] <jelly> mvaenskae: changelog for libc6 says glibc (2.24-9) [...] debian/sysdeps/{amd64,i386,x32}.mk: disable lock elision (aka Intel TSX) on x86 architectures. [...] Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:43:37 +0100
• 3392[22:46:50] *** Quits: m3rlin (~m3rlin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3393[22:47:37] <jelly> mvaenskae: so the feature you think is causing this is supposed to be already disabled
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• 3396[22:48:07] <mvaenskae> hm, then this is quite... *sigh* this is not something i want to debug :(
• 3397[22:48:18] *** Joins: iknow1 (1fdf0377@replaced-ip)
• 3398[22:48:35] <Comnenus> is it possible to specify a specific version of java if using webupd8 to install?
• 3399[22:48:41] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3400[22:48:50] <jelly> Comnenus: best ask the webupd8 people
• 3401[22:48:59] *** Quits: rotaticus (~mad@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3402[22:49:22] <jelly> hard to know what gets put in third party repos
• 3403[22:49:52] <Comnenus> jelly: do they have an IRC channel by any chance? I'm not finding much.
• 3404[22:49:53] <jelly> Comnenus: see if "apt-cache policy packagename" shows more than one version of the desired pacakge
• 3405[22:50:34] <jelly> no idea, if a vendor requires oracle java I download the tarball and use
• 3406[22:50:37] <jelly> !make-jpkg
• 3407[22:50:37] <dpkg> java-package (formerly mpkg-j2se, j2se-package) provides the make-jpkg utility for creating Debian packages from manually downloaded <Java> distributions; Oracle Java 6 (update >= 10) and Oracle Java 7 are currently supported. java-package is available for Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems in <contrib>. replaced-url
• 3408[22:51:41] *** Quits: jhutchin1_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 3410[22:53:26] <SerajewelKS> is hostapd still required to run a wireless AP on stretch, or is there some way to configure it only using /etc/network/interfaces?
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• 3413[22:53:57] <SerajewelKS> (just a WPA2 TKIP/AES AP, nothing fancy)
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• 3418[22:55:53] <Comnenus> jelly: ahhh this is probably a better idea anyway. I'll do that.
• 3419[22:56:01] <Comnenus> jelly: for really stupid reasons I'm stuck using 8 update 121.
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• 3422[22:57:21] *** Joins: atomi (~atomi@replaced-ip)
• 3423[22:57:21] <Comnenus> is wiki.debian.org down for anybody else?
• 3424[22:57:29] *** Joins: lone-wolf (~l0n3w0lf@replaced-ip)
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• 3426[22:57:38] <greycat> yup
• 3427[22:57:43] *** Joins: Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@replaced-ip)
• 3428[22:58:16] <gabrielc> Comnenus: internal server error from here
• 3429[22:58:31] <Comnenus> gabrielc: :( me too. ok.
• 3430[22:58:48] <gabrielc> Comnenus: now works
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• 3433[22:59:19] <Comnenus> ah ha, that was weird
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• 3439[23:01:49] <lone-wolf> Someone in here know why my antenna from 20dbi dont work in wireless Tl-wn7200nd 1000mw?
• 3440[23:02:09] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 3441[23:02:30] <lunk> Hello everyone, I got a notebook computer with a 486 CPU from 1990. Is there someone old enough to help me get it starting? ^^
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• 3445[23:03:22] <n4dir> lunk: it will probably have to little RAM.
• 3446[23:03:33] <lunk> 1MB
• 3447[23:03:55] <n4dir> so? case closed?
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• 3451[23:04:48] <lunk> ah, right. the linux community at it's best
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• 3454[23:05:11] <SerajewelKS> O_o
• 3455[23:05:27] <SerajewelKS> is he genuinely upset that the linux kernel requires more than 1MB of RAM
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• 3458[23:06:12] <annadane> well i was going to suggest damn small linux (though even that likely needs more than 1 mb) but they left
• 3459[23:06:26] <n4dir> best of all: he thinks the linux community is the culprit .
• 3460[23:06:28] <annadane> very likely a troll question anyway
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• 3463[23:06:59] <Comnenus> .... DSL? Puppy Linux?
• 3464[23:07:20] <n4dir> i had a laptop or such from the mid 90's. 64 MB of RAM. You could install debian on it, you sure couldn't really use a window-manager. And even the command line was not much fun.
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• 3478[23:13:23] <DrDamnit> Trying to confirm there is no nagios3 or nagios4 package in stretch. Do we have to compile from source or has the nagios monitoring server been renamed? (or do I just need the plugin scripts since I just need to monitor a remote box, and my Debian 8 monitoring server is setup just fine...)
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• 3481[23:17:56] <jmcnaught> DrDamnit: you can look packages up on replaced-url
• 3482[23:17:57] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 3483[23:18:32] *** Quits: B[]rG (~tuptidup@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3484[23:18:44] <jmcnaught> DrDamnit: you might want to look into icinga or icinga2 as an alternative
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• 3496[23:22:22] <DrDamnit> jmcnaught, thank you. I'll check out icinga. Does this also mean that nagios4 is also not supported?
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• 3500[23:23:38] <rrva> how to run debian 9 on xhyve ?
• 3501[23:24:09] <jmcnaught> DrDamnit: if by unsupported you mean not packaged in Debian, then yes. icinga uses the same monitoring plugins as nagios, I think some others do as well
• 3502[23:25:03] *** Joins: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@replaced-ip)
• 3503[23:25:07] <DrDamnit> jmcnaught, As long as it is a somewhat drop-in replacement, that is fine, and gives me time to migrate to icinga over time. Thanks!
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• 3513[23:28:18] <digdilem> Using apache2, I have a basic htaccess user/pass set up. I got crawled by a bot searching the usual urls (phpmyadmin, muieblackcat etc) but in amongst the 401 errors you'd expect, I got a 404. Can apache ever show a 404 response without successful authentication?
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• 3527[23:34:49] <bamb> guys, does this routing table look reasonable?
• 3528[23:34:49] <bamb> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
• 3529[23:34:49] <bamb> default gateway 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 xenbr0
• 3530[23:34:49] <bamb> link-local 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 xenbr0
• 3531[23:34:49] <bamb> 192.168.100.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 xenbr0
• 3532[23:34:50] *** bamb was kicked by debhelper (flood. Please use replaced-url
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• 3535[23:35:14] <bamb> hi
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• 3537[23:35:25] <annadane> bamb: use paste.debian.net in future
• 3538[23:35:32] <bamb> sry
• 3539[23:35:38] <annadane> you got cutoff after "192.168.100.0"
• 3540[23:35:56] <bamb> replaced-url
• 3541[23:35:56] *** Quits: JimmySteve (~JimmyStev@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3542[23:36:04] <bamb> does this look reasonable?
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• 3544[23:36:50] <Comnenus> jelly: for some reason make-jpkg kept choking on LibGL, something with vbox additions, I think. But it seems to be building on a fresh install without the additions. Weird.
• 3545[23:37:07] <bamb> i still think theres an issue with my network bridge, so wanna eliminate this variable
• 3546[23:37:19] <bamb> of my routing table being wrong
• 3547[23:39:42] *** Devastator_z is now known as Devastator
• 3548[23:40:01] <Comnenus> virtualbox is not playing nice with debian 9.1 at all...
• 3549[23:40:33] <annadane> yes, well, it's not packaged for stable
• 3550[23:40:50] <Comnenus> annadane: windows host. debian guest.
• 3551[23:41:15] <annadane> ah, righto
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• 3555[23:43:43] <jelly> Comnenus: I usually use it in a clear(ish) chroot. Mostly because it only works when repackaging 32bit JDK on 32bit debian, and 64bit JDK on 64bit debian.
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• 3557[23:44:21] <jelly> having alternative/unpackaged libGL inside the enviroment might make dh_shlibdeps hiccup
• 3558[23:44:52] <Comnenus> jelly: I think that's exactly what it did.
• 3559[23:45:16] <Comnenus> jelly: now I'm trying to figure out why virtualbox is deciding to give me a blank screen on the first VM. Stupid thing won't wake up.
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