People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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62 [00:33:07] <oscurochu> I havent used my computer in a month or two, and now all of a sudden debian doesnt want to boot. what gives? it wants me to type in a password for maintenance mode and look at the logs. it complains about plymouth not being able to execute. im unsure of what to do next.
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70 [00:36:18] <mutante> oscurochu: how about entering the maintenance mode, then from there edit /etc/default/grub and change GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=”quiet splash” to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="" and then rebooting
71 [00:36:24] <mutante> that should disable plymouth
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73 [00:36:31] <mutante> i mean of course it's still interesting why it failed.. but an idea
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77 [00:37:30] <oscurochu> once i can boot into it, i can figure out why it failed at least
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81 [00:38:31] <mutante> yep
82 [00:38:42] <oscurochu> i dont have to run any grub command before rebooting?
83 [00:39:03] <mutante> oh, right, you do. sudo update-grub
84 [00:39:23] <mutante> (well, no sudo in maintenance mode)
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88 [00:40:33] <oscurochu> is there a way to change the keyboard layout for the console? i have no idea how to type on qwerty anymore and always have to switch keyboards entirely when stuff like this happens.
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90 [00:40:51] <oscurochu> well that fixed it, and i didnt even have to run grub-update. thanks!
91 [00:41:04] <mutante> :) yay
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93 [00:41:55] <mutante> oscurochu: replaced-url
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95 [00:42:43] <oscurochu> what about the grub console or busybox? will it change the settings for that, too?
96 [00:43:08] <mutante> i don't think for busybox, no
97 [00:43:16] <mutante> don't really know that part
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101 [00:47:20] <oscurochu> that article walks through setting up initramfs, so now i just need to figure out how to update grubs keymap, if i can
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112 [00:53:07] <oscurochu> when i type "info grub-kbdcomp" i get the man page instead...
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128 [01:00:10] <scott_tams> I have added a source to my /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, and then added the appropriate key signature with `apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv $THE_KEY`. Whenever I run apt update I get an error saying that the key value (which matches the value on launchpad.net) is not valid. I just did this exact thing on a different machine, successfully. What's happening??
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139 [01:04:42] <neilthereildeil> hi can someone please help me configure a network bridge?
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142 [01:05:12] <neilthereildeil> this bridge actually doesnt pass traffic betweern ifaces
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145 [01:05:30] <neilthereildeil> i am making a bridge for my Xen VMs that should not talk to the network
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149 [01:06:18] <neilthereildeil> im trynna give 2 static IPs-one to each of my interfaces, eth0, xenbr0
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151 [01:07:26] <neilthereildeil> heres my etc/network/interfaces file: replaced-url
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154 [01:08:18] <neilthereildeil> for some reason, when i reboot, xenbr0 doesnt come up automatically
155 [01:08:36] <neilthereildeil> i tried with and without "auto xenbr0"
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157 [01:08:42] <neilthereildeil> what am i doing wrong?
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207 [01:36:53] <holycow> hi all
208 [01:37:20] <holycow> i just used the debian 9 netinstaller and DID NOT select any desktops to be installed. and yet, fucking gnome is installed.
209 [01:37:28] <holycow> is there a problem with debian 9 installers?
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213 [01:38:39] <qmr> holycow: run tasksel -- is desktop selected?
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216 [01:41:20] <holycow> it is BUT
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218 [01:41:29] <jmcnaught> holycow: if you select the task "Debian desktop environment" it installs GNOME unless you deselect GNOME _and_ select one of the others. GNOME is the default
219 [01:41:35] <holycow> i DID NOT select the gnome desktop on install. just ssh server.
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221 [01:42:05] <holycow> okay so the installer is known as working? that issue on the debian 9 release is not related to this?
222 [01:42:20] <holycow> if so i must not be paying enough attention
223 [01:42:20] <jmcnaught> what issue?
224 [01:42:32] <qmr> the most likely explanation is you goofed
225 [01:42:43] <holycow> i don't remember the details. i remember that on release the debian 9 installer needed a fix of some sort
226 [01:42:59] <holycow> qmr: it must be. you are right, no one else is having this obviously.
227 [01:43:02] <holycow> thanks guys.
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231 [01:47:59] <tw> What's the best way to install libdb5.1 (wheezy era) on stretch? Can I use apt for this?
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233 [01:49:07] <tw> Right now what I'm doing is fetching the package by name from a mirror, then installing with dpkg -i
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248 [02:01:56] <ee1> Hi. I wish to install burn debian iso to a usb stick with the command "DD"? Can anyone help me with this?
249 [02:02:04] <ee1> I don't really remember how to do it Oo
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251 [02:02:27] <bazhang> ee1, the web has many examples
252 [02:02:39] <bazhang> first hit on google, infact
253 [02:02:46] <petemc> !usb install
254 [02:02:46] <dpkg> You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see replaced-url
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256 [02:02:58] <ee1> Arrigato
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271 [02:11:43] <sptnx> sudo dd if=/path/to/debian.iso of=/dev/sdb
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284 [02:25:10] <df__> any easy way to give internet to an android phone? the computer has internet but the phone doesn't
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302 [02:35:55] <sptnx> df__: if you have a wifi-card on computer that not are in use you can setup an hotspot
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306 [02:40:33] <df__> sptnx: nope, I don't
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316 [02:46:48] <shmigle> Hello!
317 [02:47:00] <oscurochu> i want to update to the latest version of thunderbird, because evolution is a "less secure app" and i do not want to use it, and the version of thunderbird that is supported by the current version of debian has issues. i followed this guide here at tristan.lt/blog/firefox-and-thunderbird-on-debian-jessie/
318 [02:47:03] <SharkQUIRKS> Hi! How are you?
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320 [02:47:40] <oscurochu> when i follow that guide though, it says my version is already up to date. ive already ran "apt-get update"
321 [02:48:11] <shmigle> Good thanks. Just installed Debian yesterday after being on Ubuntu for a while. Any tips?
322 [02:48:20] <shmigle> I hear Debian is very fragile
323 [02:48:31] <oscurochu> debian is very stable
324 [02:48:48] <firef1y> shmigle: it's not fragile. If you want fragile, try #fedora.
325 [02:49:03] <dvs> it's precious
326 [02:49:13] <mutante> shmigle: almost exactly the same as Ubuntu since Ubuntu copies all the Debian packages
327 [02:49:13] <oscurochu> the problem is they never update anything, so if you need bleeding edge software you either need to install from source, or upgrade to testing
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329 [02:49:20] <shmigle> Fragile in terms of dependency issues if you don't install from the main repos
330 [02:49:29] <firef1y> shmigle: it's not.
331 [02:49:39] <oscurochu> debian is very much like ubuntu
332 [02:49:47] <oscurochu> ubuntu is more fragile imo than debian.
333 [02:50:07] <SharkQUIRKS> shmigle: I personally use XFCE on my Debian machine(s). It has worked well for me.
334 [02:50:07] <mutante> ubuntu is very much like debian and there is something between "never update
335 [02:50:12] <mutante> and "bleeding edge"
336 [02:50:29] <firef1y> ubuntu just broke my vmware today.
337 [02:50:35] <oscurochu> sorry to hear that
338 [02:51:22] <firef1y> I am fairly annoyed with it for now. This is not helped by the fact that everything you find on google is about ubuntu *guests*, not ubuntu *hosts*
339 [02:51:26] <mutante> has a hard time imagining how a VM breaks the host
340 [02:51:28] <shmigle> Ok that's good to hear then. I was testing so many Debian based distros so I figured I'd go to the very source of where a lot of distros began.
341 [02:51:31] <SharkQUIRKS> Also, like firefly said above, Debian is not fragile.
342 [02:51:44] <firef1y> mutante: the host broke the VM, not the other way around.
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344 [02:51:51] <firef1y> GUI just isn't loading.
345 [02:52:08] <mutante> so you mean "VMware broke my Ubuntu" then?
346 [02:52:15] <SharkQUIRKS> Even if you use "testing" or "unstable," it would be hard to break your Debian install.
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351 [02:53:33] <mutante> i have a feeling that whole "fragile" thing comes from mixing all kinds of (3rd party) repos
352 [02:53:33] <firef1y> mutante: no, ubuntu broke my vmware, like I said before.
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355 [02:54:07] <SharkQUIRKS> I agree, mutante.
356 [02:54:46] <oscurochu> shmigle: you should give slackware a try in your vmware. while i love debian, because its a lot simpler… if you want to go back to where distros began, slackware is one of the first distros that existed.
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360 [02:55:35] <shmigle> I heard a lot of the fragile comments from videos and articles. I also heard debian has come a long way with it's installer. There was an interesting youtube video where Torvalds wouldn't even use Debian back in the day because he couldn't install it himself without issues
361 [02:55:38] <jmcnaught> Debian is almost as old as Slackware, but we should move the non-support discussions to #debian-offtopic
362 [02:55:45] <oscurochu> slackware has a lot to offer as far as the linux learning curve goes.
363 [02:56:15] <shmigle> Yeah I just read a bit about Slackware. Seems pretty interesting. The longest supported linux distro I think?
364 [02:56:22] <mutante> thinks oscurochu is trolling but funny
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366 [02:56:34] <oscurochu> im not trying to troll, just my personal opinion lol
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368 [02:57:06] <shmigle> Oh my bad didn't know this support only
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371 [02:58:13] <oscurochu> slackware is very vanilla. if you dont know what vanilla means, you should look into it. but this is off topic so i will refrain from further conversation
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379 [03:02:14] <azzamsa> I can hide my identity in .gitconfig using `useConfigOnly = true`, so I can freely publish my gitconfig,
380 [03:02:15] <azzamsa> but how to hide my name and email export for pbuilder configuration in .bashrc export DEBFULLNAME="foo"
381 [03:02:15] <azzamsa> export DEBEMAIL="baz"? thanks. thanks lot.
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422 [03:26:33] <ee1> Hi. If I wish to install debian on a usb stick, what would be the best program to download it for? That lies inside the package manager
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430 [03:32:32] <oscurochu> you want to install TO a usb or FROM a usb?
431 [03:32:46] <ee1> to usb, from debian iso file
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434 [03:33:27] <oscurochu> if you already have the install cd booted, installing debian onto a flash drive is the same as installing it to a standard hard disk
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442 [03:35:00] <oscurochu> just make sure that grub is installed onto the mbr of the flash drive. the easiest way to make sure you dont accidentally overwrite your mbr on your standard hard drive is by unplugging it first. if you know what you are doing, this shouldnt be an issue… but when in doubt, just follow the advice given.
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444 [03:35:16] <oscurochu> is that the answer you were looking for?
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450 [03:38:21] <oscurochu> if you wanted to install from a usb by copying the iso to the usb… there are a few ways to do that and you might have to wait for someone else to respond if you want to know the best way. the way i would try doing it though, which will destroy everything on the usb drive and you should proceed with caution, is using the dd command
451 [03:39:17] <oscurochu> dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/path/to/usb
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454 [03:40:42] <oscurochu> you can also use unetbootin. im not sure if people still use that one or not. like i said, if this is what you are trying to do, it might be a better idea to wait for someone else to respond, or if you are impatient, just try it my way and hope it works. sometimes it doesnt work for me, and i havent understood why… it works 50% of the time though.
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458 [03:41:30] <oscurochu> oh he left lol
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473 [03:45:51] <oscurochu> so any ideas on how to updgrade to a newer version of thunderbird without manually installing a tarball?
474 [03:47:31] <oscurochu> nvm i just figured it out. thanks tho
475 [03:48:38] <oscurochu> removing thunderbird wants to remove gnome. im not familar with debian, its been a while.
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478 [03:51:20] <firef1y> debian gets fucky with Thunderbird.
479 [03:51:49] <firef1y> It's one of those OS developer pissing matches that happens occasionally.
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486 [03:55:12] <oscurochu> so how to i remove a program that wants to remove other essential programs?
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489 [03:55:23] <oscurochu> ive had this happen before, i just forgot how i fixed it
490 [03:55:52] <petemc> you redefined essential?
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494 [03:57:08] <oscurochu> technically gnome isnt essential, but it is for me
495 [03:57:26] <th0r> oscurochu, this help? replaced-url
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500 [04:00:16] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: can you make a paste of the command you're using and the output on replaced-url
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508 [04:04:47] <oscurochu> now when i try to install a package, it wants to remove gnome and gnome-core
509 [04:04:57] <jmcnaught> !bat
510 [04:04:57] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
511 [04:05:12] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: ^^ and please if you ask questions don't quit a few minutes later
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515 [04:07:20] <th0r> jmcnaught, in his defense, I have been disconnected several times today and get no indication until I send a command and expect a response
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517 [04:09:10] <n_blownapart> hello is there a way to set prompt colors in xterm without using \ESC ? it is screwing up my repl apparently
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520 [04:10:39] <n_blownapart> this is in a file called .ghci for a haskell repl
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528 [04:14:12] <n_blownapart> in a config file for a haskell repl, filename '.ghci' , is there a way to set prompt colors in xterm without using \ESC ? it is screwing up my repl apparently
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531 [04:16:09] <oscurochu> im not quitting. im sorry my laptop keeps logging me out and going to sleep
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533 [04:16:32] <oscurochu> im going to login with my desktop app to prevent this.
534 [04:16:38] <oscurochu> brb
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560 [04:28:39] <replaced-url
561 [04:28:43] <replaced-url
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567 [04:31:11] <oscurochu> hi
568 [04:32:12] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
569 [04:32:58] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: earlier I asked you to provide the information outlined in "/msg dpkg bat" for the package(s) you were having trouble with
570 [04:33:06] <replaced-url
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572 [04:33:14] <replaced-url
573 [04:33:26] <oscurochu> so you are going to have to send me everything again that you sent me earlier that is relevant to my problem. thank you for reiterating that.
574 [04:33:50] <oscurochu> do you want me to run that command verbatum?
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576 [04:34:10] <oscurochu> i am trying to remove iceweasel and firefox-esr. they both want to remove gnome and gnome-session
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578 [04:35:05] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: /msg is an IRC command that you enter into your client to send a private message. If you type "/msg dpkg bat" the dpkg bot will respond to you
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585 [04:39:46] <n_blownapart> oscurochu I removed iceweasel and was told to ignore those warnings. they are some sort of aux files that didn't hurt my jessie 8 32bit system
586 [04:40:13] <n_blownapart> I was told here on this irc to ignore them
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588 [04:40:26] <jmcnaught> it's more nuanced than that
589 [04:41:24] <jmcnaught> if you do not have the gnome metapackages installed, and Debian decides to add/remove packages from the gnome metapackage dependencies, then when you upgrade you will have a less standard desktop
590 [04:42:00] <oscurochu> i suppose you are right, because gnome and gnome-core are just packages that their job is solely to bring in other packages, if im not mistaken?
591 [04:42:04] <jmcnaught> gnome-core requires firefox-esr or chromium, so you can install chromium and remove firefox-esr without removing gnome-core
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593 [04:42:34] <oscurochu> oh
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596 [04:42:58] <jmcnaught> if you remove the gnome-core and gnome metapackages you will probably want to make some packages as manually installed so apt-get and aptitude don't want to autoremove them
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600 [04:43:57] <jmcnaught> but earlier oscurochu you said you were trying to install something that forced the removal of those packages
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602 [04:46:20] <oscurochu> thats not what i meant. i meant that i was trying to install firefox-mozillla-build and i wanted to remove iceweasel and firefox-esr.
603 [04:47:04] <oscurochu> and when i do that, it tries to remove gnome and gnome-core
604 [04:47:09] <jmcnaught> what's wrong with firefox-esr?
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607 [04:48:41] <oscurochu> nothing yet. but the current version of thunderbird supported by debian is outdated and doesnt let me login to my gmail. so i figured if im gonna upgrade thunderbird using a third party repo i wanted to upgrade firefox too since they compliment each other. i suppose its not mandatory for me to do this, at least not until i have a reason to also have the latest build of firefox too
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611 [04:52:06] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: I don't use gmail but I would probably just enable traditional IMAP authentication and use a strong, unique, random password.
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613 [04:52:45] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: in the past Debian has updated the version of thunderbird and firefox-esr once security fixes can no longer be backported to the versions in stable
614 [04:52:45] <oscurochu> thats what i use... but the version currently supported by debian has a bug and it will not allow you to login with gmail at all, because of the two step authentication. it gets stuck
615 [04:53:24] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: you cannot disable this feature in the gmail web interface settings somewhere, to allow legacy clients to connect?
616 [04:53:37] <oscurochu> thunderbird is not a legacy client
617 [04:54:04] <oscurochu> evolution is, but i do not want to make my account less secure just to use an email client if i do not have to.
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619 [04:55:11] <jmcnaught> i don't think that IMAP with STARTTLS and a strong, unique password is that insecure
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621 [04:56:34] <oscurochu> disabling two step authentication is insecure. what if my password is compromised? if they dont have access to my cell phone they will be unable to gain access to my account
622 [04:56:49] <jmcnaught> if you are concerned about thunderbird storing your email password in plaintext, Debian has xul-ext-gnome-keyring and xul-ext-kwallet5 packages
623 [04:57:30] <joze> I use the secure nobody cares about me passwordless login
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625 [04:58:07] <oscurochu> thats not what im concerned about. thanks for the suggestions. i have however already decided that i do not want to loosen the security of my google account for the sake of using an insecure email client.
626 [04:58:40] <oscurochu> if i go to a public computer and type in my password, it can be compromised no matter how secure my home computer is
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629 [04:59:05] <jmcnaught> not supporting a feature that you want to use doesn't make an email client insecure
630 [04:59:23] <joze> i never had the urge to do private things on a public computer
631 [04:59:51] <oscurochu> then why does google refuse to allow connections from an evolution client but allows connections from most other email client software?
632 [05:00:11] <oscurochu> well congrats. i take my hat off to you.
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634 [05:00:45] <joze> public computers arre a curiosity
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637 [05:01:33] <oscurochu> i dont really want to talk about this because i am moving forward and have better things to do and discuss.
638 [05:01:37] <oscurochu> thanks for all the help
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640 [05:02:05] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: i'm only bringing it up because it's probably only a matter of time before this bug is fixed on Debian, and there are risks involved with installing software from non-Debian sources if you are inexperienced
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643 [05:03:16] <jmcnaught> oscurochu: is the bug on replaced-url
644 [05:03:54] <VentGrey> Hello, does anyone of you know how to change the QT5 apps look? I've googled it but trolltech.conf doesn't work and some suggest installing a package from a ppa
645 [05:04:03] <oscurochu> the only packages in the repo i am using are mozilla packages.
646 [05:05:16] <oscurochu> i havent looked, and maybe if i get around to it i will try to fix the bug myself. i need something to keep me busy. i cant go back to work until i am healed from my surgery anyways. but for now i want a working system.
647 [05:05:51] <oscurochu> have a nice night. i have to go now.
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660 [05:18:35] <David_Hedlund> I just added /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop and its showing up in the desktop menu (under Internet) but not alphabetically though. How do I sort the menu?
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677 [05:29:06] <VentGrey> If you are using a Gnome based distro try using alacarte or menulibre to manually move it
678 [05:29:47] <David_Hedlund> VentGrey: I need to do it from a script, sorry I didn't mention that.
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680 [05:30:14] <David_Hedlund> VentGrey: Its my configuration script.
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684 [05:32:05] <VentGrey> :/ no idea
685 [05:32:35] <VentGrey> Found a Ubuntu script but maybe you'll have to dissasemble it and change some things
686 [05:33:23] <David_Hedlund> VentGrey: Please give me the link.
687 [05:33:52] <VentGrey> replaced-url
688 [05:35:35] <David_Hedlund> VentGrey: Thank you.
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753 [06:26:11] <buu> What's the simplest way to merge three disks to mount as a single volume?
754 [06:26:43] <qmr> I do not understand the question
755 [06:26:51] <qmr> you want storage to span the drives?
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758 [06:28:45] <petemc> lvm
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764 [06:31:31] <qmr> buu: ?
765 [06:31:36] <qmr> Yes, mdadm jbod or lvm
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847 [07:50:56] <vlt> buu: lvm
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865 [08:06:56] <cryocaustik> hi all - I am trying to do a debian 9 install onto my yoga 2 and I am using a usb with the cd netinstall image loaded onto it, but I am running into an issue when it tries to configure the network as it does not detect my wireless card and wants me to specify a driver
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867 [08:07:19] <Tom-_> !firmware cd
868 [08:07:20] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
869 [08:07:28] <Tom-_> probably
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883 [08:26:30] <Dreamz> is every newly installed debian require change root password?
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890 [08:32:58] <well_laid_lawn> ou are mad if you don't
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892 [08:33:09] <well_laid_lawn> s/ou/you/
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900 [08:35:50] <Dreamz> But why system say my root password wrong often? this days I installed about 5 times.
901 [08:36:58] <well_laid_lawn> I can't answer that - if it is set and used properly it should work
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903 [08:37:20] <well_laid_lawn> thousands of users have it work for them
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905 [08:38:42] <mr__tea> Dreamz: you got to try harder!
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923 [08:51:21] <jmcnaught> #866206
924 [08:51:22] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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934 [08:57:19] <Rimo> hi
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954 [09:21:46] <cryocaustik> Tom-_ - thank you!
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1017 [10:04:54] <m_> Hello. Screenfetch anyone?
1018 [10:04:55] <m_> replaced-url
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1026 [10:08:58] <cheapie> m_: replaced-url
1027 [10:09:43] <Mick> Hi, does Debian brings /etc/syslog.conf by default ?
1028 [10:11:08] <Mick> If not, where do i configure iptables logging then ?
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1032 [10:13:04] <m_> thanks cheapie
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1039 [10:20:12] <kiril> hello
1040 [10:20:39] <kiril> after upgrading from 8 to 9 stable debian i have issues with one server more specially with nginx.
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1042 [10:20:55] <kiril> 2017/07/22 11:18:06 [alert] 29467#0: mmap(MAP_ANON|MAP_SHARED, 268435456) failed (12: Cannot allocate memory)
1043 [10:21:19] <kiril> the following parameters /etc/sysctl.conf are:
1044 [10:21:21] <kiril> (root@replaced-ip )(~)>$ cat /etc/sysctl.conf |egrep -i "kernel.shmmax|kernel.shmall"
1045 [10:21:21] <kiril> kernel.shmmax = 268435456
1046 [10:21:21] <kiril> kernel.shmall = 268435456
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1053 [10:24:29] <kiril> fixed
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1088 [10:48:40] <nemo_roy> 🙋
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1165 [11:47:19] <GenitalWarts> hi
1166 [11:47:36] <Peyam> Hi, My debian is using SWAP while I have 8 GB RAM. isn't it strange?
1167 [11:47:43] <GenitalWarts> s
1168 [11:48:24] <p0g0> Peyam: no, that is by design, iirc.
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1170 [11:48:40] <Peyam> Are you sure? Never had this in my other distros
1171 [11:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1671
1172 [11:49:17] <p0g0> I recall reading that, I'd have to look it up to cite the doc.
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1175 [11:49:47] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@138.197.133.118$##arguments
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1177 [11:50:54] <p0g0> Peyam: viz: replaced-url
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1183 [11:52:19] <rudi_s> Peyam: You can reduce the "swapiness" with sysctl, e.g. sysctl vm.swappiness=10
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1185 [11:52:49] <rudi_s> Personally I find the default swap settings too aggressive and prefer not using the swap, thus swappiness=10.
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1187 [11:52:51] <Peyam> yes ofcourse
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1195 [11:54:11] <rudi_s> But using swap in general is not an issue. The kernel puts unused pages in the swap.
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1198 [11:56:08] <Peyam> There is a an other problem
1199 [11:56:32] <Peyam> the grub doesnt show Windows 7. I ran both os-prober and grub-update
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1201 [11:57:49] <rudi_s> It's update-grub on Debian, but it should work if you have os-prober installed.
1202 [11:58:45] <Peyam> it doent find it
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1204 [11:59:27] <rudi_s> Peyam: ?
1205 [11:59:29] <Peyam> rudi_s, replaced-url
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1207 [12:00:04] <Peyam> rudi_s, replaced-url
1208 [12:00:10] <rudi_s> Hm. os-prober should detect it. If it doesn't (and os-prober is installed) then update-grub won't find it either.
1209 [12:00:41] <rudi_s> Is this grub1?
1210 [12:00:52] <Peyam> this is the os-prober output : /dev/sdb1:Windows 7:Windows:chain
1211 [12:00:57] <Peyam> yes I believe
1212 [12:01:09] <rudi_s> Which Debian release is this?
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1214 [12:01:31] <Peyam> 4.9.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 (2017-06-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux
1215 [12:01:38] <Peyam> last stable one
1216 [12:01:58] <rudi_s> So Jessie, replace grub-legacy with grub2 (grub-pc) and try again.
1217 [12:02:11] <ST3NO> hi :) Someone installed nextcloud on debian 9?
1218 [12:02:12] <Peyam> how do I do it?
1219 [12:02:14] <rudi_s> Oh wait, Stretch.
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1222 [12:03:10] <rudi_s> Anyway, install the grub-pc package, run grub-install your-partition here and then run update-grub.
1223 [12:03:40] <Peyam> can you be more specific. what do you mean your-partition here
1224 [12:03:59] <Peyam> do you mean # grub-install /dev/sda1 ?
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1226 [12:04:20] <Peyam> but first #apt-get install grub-pc?
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1228 [12:04:58] <Peyam> yes
1229 [12:05:03] <Peyam> it worked thank you :)
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1232 [12:05:36] <rudi_s> np ;-)
1233 [12:06:04] <rudi_s> Then uninstall grub-legacy and try a reboot. Have a USB-stick or similar ready just in case something broke.
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1235 [12:06:30] <Peyam> ohh. so the risk is still there.
1236 [12:06:37] <roger21> why popularity contest is insalled when you say you don't want to use it ?????
1237 [12:06:46] <roger21> at the installatio
1238 [12:06:48] <roger21> n
1239 [12:06:49] <rudi_s> A little bit, but it almost never breaks. Grub is quite reliable.
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1241 [12:07:00] <Peyam> rudi_s, Package 'grub-legacy' is not installed, so not removed
1242 [12:07:01] <rudi_s> roger21: It isn't. The installer's output is just confusing.
1243 [12:07:20] <roger21> hmmmmm
1244 [12:07:26] <rudi_s> Peyam: Hm. I thought that was the name.
1245 [12:07:38] <rudi_s> dpkg -l | grep grub and look for anything "old".
1246 [12:07:38] <dpkg> ii | grep grub and look for anything "old". 3.9-2 rudi_s's private coin collection
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1248 [12:07:51] <rudi_s> Thanks dpkg ;-)
1249 [12:08:53] <Peyam> rudi_s, replaced-url
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1253 [12:10:27] <Peyam> there is one legacy why can I remove it. When I look closely I see a 'rc' on the left og grub-legacy.
1254 [12:10:37] <rudi_s> Peyam: all right. Looks like it was already removed. You can remove the remaining config files with apt-get purge grub-legacy
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1256 [12:11:50] <rudi_s> (Per default Debian keeps the config file and program state (like database content or similiar) on the system when removing a package, only when you "purge" it, those parts are removed as well.)
1257 [12:12:03] <Peyam> thanks again. I did a autoremove just after I install those packages you earlier mentioned
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1259 [12:12:34] <Peyam> Thanks
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1261 [12:13:16] <rudi_s> np
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1264 [12:14:10] <rudi_s> Btw. try the reboot "soon", so you know that everything works and if not you can pinpoint it to this change.
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1269 [12:15:46] <lowin> Hello. I'm trying to setup openvpn on stretch. I created a /etc/openvpn/server.conf file but when I try to start the openvpn service, it exits immediately. running openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/server.conf works fine though
1270 [12:15:53] <lowin> What am I doing wrong?
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1287 [12:26:27] <vlt> In recent versions (of Debian or OpenVPN) it seems you need to systemctl enable something.
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1309 [12:38:10] <DeadJew> Hello
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1312 [12:39:23] <DeadJew> !ops i am a dead jew
1313 [12:39:24] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: deadjew complains about: i am a dead jew
1314 [12:39:31] <abrotman> ...
1315 [12:39:44] <DeadJew> i used to be a regular jew but then i did not want to hail Hitler
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1317 [12:39:48] *** abrotman sets mode: +b *!*@7a.73.1732.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com
1318 [12:39:48] *** DeadJew was kicked by abrotman (you should know better)
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1323 [12:40:28] <Peyam> Why dont I have the same font in Foxit reader as the desktop? replaced-url
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1326 [12:41:47] <ElDiabolo> Is there an easy way to become a package maintainer of an existing seemingly orphaned package package?
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1330 [12:43:01] <abrotman> ElDiabolo: which package?
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1332 [12:43:17] <ElDiabolo> sa-learn-cyrus
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1338 [12:44:41] <abrotman> ElDiabolo: if it's not orphaned, you could email the maintainer and ask to help
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1346 [12:48:13] <ElDiabolo> abrotman, It is not in stretch and the version in sid is the same as in jessie. But there is a maintainer.
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1350 [12:50:26] <abrotman> I'd still email the maintainer to start
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1352 [12:52:13] <m_> Show your desktops please
1353 [12:52:15] <m_> replaced-url
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1359 [12:53:18] <abrotman> m_: this is a support channel
1360 [12:53:41] <m_> allright, sry
1361 [12:54:10] <m_> is there any channel which is somehow specialized for something like this?
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1364 [12:55:20] <Tom-_> #debian-offtopic i suppose, though it's a much smaller crowd
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1389 [13:12:03] <m_> thank you Tom-_
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1396 [13:18:11] <assassinpinapple> !schroot
1397 [13:18:11] <dpkg> schroot is an easy way of setting up a <chroot> in a way that can be treated as a session. If desired, modification to the chroot can be prevented using overlayfs or LVM snapshots, making it very convenient for building packages or simply running packages from other releases with minimal containment. See replaced-url
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1420 [13:33:08] <m_> How can i install Latte Dock. I could not add the repository, neither install the .deb
1421 [13:33:13] <m_> replaced-url
1422 [13:33:32] <abrotman> m_: this isn't the Ubuntu support channel
1423 [13:34:53] <m_> I know, i don't use Ubuntu.
1424 [13:35:05] <abrotman> That's a PPA for Ubuntu?
1425 [13:35:08] <m_> Installing the .deb also doesn't work: replaced-url
1426 [13:35:32] <m_> for Ubuntu and Debian
1427 [13:35:34] <m_> replaced-url
1428 [13:35:36] <towo`> ubuntu debs often not working on debian
1429 [13:35:53] <m_> that's a bad...
1430 [13:35:56] <towo`> that's why you shouldn't try to intsll ubuntu debs
1431 [13:36:05] <towo`> ubuntu is not debian
1432 [13:36:13] <m_> but look on the link
1433 [13:36:27] <abrotman> but what? why doesn't it work?
1434 [13:36:29] <towo`> why i should?
1435 [13:37:07] <m_> replaced-url
1436 [13:37:14] <abrotman> I'm sure as hell not downloading a package for another distro
1437 [13:37:19] <m_> maybe it's just for Ubuntu, dunno
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1439 [13:37:52] <abrotman> m_: which part of that is a problem?
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1444 [13:40:39] <m_> replaced-url
1445 [13:40:42] <m_> :/
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1447 [13:41:23] <abrotman> well, it's a PPA for Ubuntu
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1451 [13:42:28] <m_> mmhhh, it seems so and the .deb is also for Ubuntu only, that's a shame
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1453 [13:43:22] <m_> I was thinking that u can use every .deb for Ubuntu and Debian, my bad. I'm new to Debian...
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1466 [13:52:23] <assassinpinapple> hello everyone. I am trying to set up an schroot for stretch (I have jessie) and everything works fine, except that when I schroot -c stretch with my user I can go on the system normal /home/user/ and do stuff. Is that an expected behaviour? I thought that under chroot I couldn't go above the defined folder. Here is my conf: replaced-url
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1469 [13:55:57] <JPT> Not sure, i don't know the project. But the wiki mentioned something about an overlay fs?
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1471 [13:56:16] <JPT> Maybe try creating a file in your home directory while in schroot, then leave the schroot and check if it still exists
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1473 [13:56:45] <JPT> Also, since i am not sure: Make sure your backups are fine before trying to delete stuff while in schroot.
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1480 [13:57:52] <assassinpinapple> JPT, tried creating a file and exiting already, the file is still there
1481 [13:58:08] <assassinpinapple> installed programs, however, are not
1482 [13:58:27] <JPT> That sounds a bit weird, but perhaps the documentation will explain that
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1486 [13:59:28] <assassinpinapple> JPT, thanks, I'm reading through it, still couldn't find about it but I'm now to chroot, so it may be that I don't understand something :)
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1488 [14:00:49] <JPT> Schroot seems to be a bit different to chroot.
1489 [14:01:11] <JPT> Real chroot moves / to the new location and there's basically no easy way to escape the new /.
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1496 [14:03:43] <assassinpinapple> JPT, maybe the problem is the --preserve-environment. I'll delete that and report back, just for the fun of knowing
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1499 [14:04:07] <JPT> Ah, sounds reasonable. Good luck :)
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1580 [14:43:50] <assassinpinapple> hello everyone. I am trying to set up an schroot for stretch (I have jessie) and everything works fine, except that when I schroot -c stretch with my user I can go on the system normal /home/user/ and do stuff. Is that an expected behaviour? I thought that under chroot I couldn't go above the defined folder. Here is my conf: replaced-url
1581 [14:44:10] <assassinpinapple> I'm pretty sure there is something silly I'm missing
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1600 [14:53:09] <assassinpinapple> I see, looks like schroot only chroots part of the filesystem, not the whole of it as I would have expected
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1618 [15:01:54] <rudi_s> Hi. Can I somehow prevent systemctl restart service from restarting the service? I have a few services (like logind) which should disallow restarts.
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1620 [15:02:21] <rudi_s> (The reason is that a restart of logind kills the current sessions and I want to prevent me from doing that be accident when checkrestart tells me to restart service.s)
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1649 [15:14:08] <dokma> I've just realized my app if failing because ext3 was not supporting preallocation so I switched to ext4.
1650 [15:14:14] <dokma> Still can't get preallocation to work.
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1652 [15:14:30] <dokma> Is there any way to test if my ext4 fs provides preallocation?
1653 [15:14:49] <dokma> *my app is failing*
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1657 [15:16:50] <JPT> ext4 should support pre-allocation. What kind of errors do you get and do you use any magic flags when mounting your ext4 filesystem?
1658 [15:18:31] <JPT> I just dug around - maybe this documentation might help you a bit: replaced-url
1659 [15:19:24] <dokma> I get "operation not supported" from fallocate in a C++ app.
1660 [15:19:43] <dokma> I mount with: UUID=459d6d3c-8347-40cd-9d4d-9803b47930d1 /home/vlatko/backup ext4 defaults 0 1
1661 [15:20:07] <dokma> fallocate works from the command line
1662 [15:20:23] <dokma> I've just made a 100GiB file
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1664 [15:22:10] <dokma> Even a TB works from the command line...
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1670 [15:22:58] <JPT> If it works from command line, then the file system and mounting options are not at fault. Perhaps the standard library used or the implementation of the syscall may need some maintenance?
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1672 [15:23:49] <dokma> I'm taking a look at the call itself. Seems like the dev botched something.
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1674 [15:24:04] <JPT> Good luck, i hope you can figure out how to fix it. :)
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1684 [15:29:45] <dokma> Super funny... when I run it from gdb it works?
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1686 [15:30:50] <JPT> Maybe an issue with latency of some sort?
1687 [15:31:04] <JPT> I assume that gdb runs the program at a much slower pace
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1691 [15:33:11] <dokma> I've rebuilt the binary and now it works... sort of
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1698 [15:35:26] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
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1702 [15:37:05] <jhutchins> dokma: Sounds like there are significant differences in the environment.
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1704 [15:37:27] <Mick> Hi , i am looking to install envy-ng, but can not find it in the debian repositories for Debian 6 (Squeeze).. any help ?
1705 [15:38:09] <dokma> jhutchins: I've managed to get fallocate to behave now OpenCL is dragging me down.
1706 [15:38:20] <abrotman> Mick: it's not in Debian at all?
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1708 [15:38:34] <dokma> I have to modify the source to see what OpenCL complains about.
1709 [15:39:20] <Mick> abrotman: "apt-cache search envy" did was not succesful
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1712 [15:40:33] <abrotman> right
1713 [15:40:34] <Brigo> Mick, i can't find that package in Debian
1714 [15:40:59] <Mick> Well, i could try Ubuntu repositories, but how do i verify which Ubuntu-Releases are actually based on Debian 6, and not 7, or 8 ?
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1719 [15:42:28] <abrotman> it's also not in ubuntu AFAICT
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1721 [15:44:36] <JK263> #OSCP
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1724 [15:45:10] <dokma> Bummer. Now it works. I hate intermittent failures.
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1732 [15:50:05] <Mick> abrotman: you are wrong... replaced-url
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1735 [15:53:28] <abrotman> Mick: it's not in packages.ubuntu.com .. but yay, you found an unsupported package on a different distro!
1736 [15:54:23] <Mick> Yeah !!! ... i am incombatible with Linux..
1737 [15:54:29] * Mick is always wrong...
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1748 [16:05:01] <forcerecon> morning everyone
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1753 [16:08:12] <Guest80385> information regarding last update.. one item held back on the installation of nvidia drivers.. wondering if a reboot might help
1754 [16:08:12] <Guest80385> replaced-url
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1757 [16:12:27] <forcerecon_> hey hey.. I am back.. onion decide to work
1758 [16:12:27] <forcerecon_> too bad i need to reboot
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1767 [16:15:29] <Mick> Might someone find a envy*.deb package for me ?
1768 [16:16:23] <BluesKaj> Mick, is the envy package for newer edgy graphics drivers
1769 [16:16:28] <BluesKaj> ?
1770 [16:16:41] <abrotman> Mick: it's not in Debian ..
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1772 [16:17:27] <Mick> abrotman: What about Wheezy ? replaced-url
1773 [16:17:58] <Mick> replaced-url
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1775 [16:19:45] <_Strix_> hello
1776 [16:20:25] <BluesKaj> Mick you have go back to 2008 versions of ubuntu to find any envy packages , they were also discouraged at the time because they could break your system quite badly
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1779 [16:21:35] <forcerecon> when you get a package that will not install or is held back, should you ignore it
1780 [16:21:36] <forcerecon> I guess what I am saying is will it be fixed in a new udpate or should you pass
1781 [16:21:36] <forcerecon> sudo apt-get --with-new-pkgs upgrade
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1786 [16:22:36] <forcerecon> reference too - replaced-url
1787 [16:22:36] <forcerecon> thanks for any and all information / advice
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1795 [16:25:21] <BluesKaj> forcerecon, just ignore the vulkan being held back. it's mostly for users with more then one gpu afaik
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1811 [16:30:45] <forcerecon> BluesKaj: thanks mate..
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1848 [16:46:15] <dean> Hey im thinking of getting a Lenovo Ideapad 110 15.6 Inch Celeron. Can anyone confirm If debian will run on it? Here's a link replaced-url
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1851 [16:47:10] <dean> I'd usually spend a few days researching myself but my old laptop just died and I've only got a few minutes before the shop closes and desperately need to get some work done tonight
1852 [16:47:42] <jelly> dean, if you can get your hands on one, boot a linux livecd, and save the output of "lspci -nn" you might get a decent answer
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1857 [16:48:33] <dean> @jelly can't even make a live cd lol im on my phone at the moment.
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1859 [16:48:59] <jelly> then search for the specific model and lspci on the internets, mayb
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1865 [16:54:40] <merimel> Lenovo Ideapad 110 should be fine — due to Intel HD Graphics 405 (good intel driver, not powervr garbage)
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1873 [16:59:37] <dean> merimel it's Intel Celeron. Is that ok?
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1879 [17:08:25] <jelly> things to worry about: whether uefi secure boot can be disabled; whether chipset is too new (but with a Q1 2016 CPU, it probably isn't)
1880 [17:08:44] <jelly> whether 4GB RAM will be enough for your workload
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1883 [17:10:32] <jelly> if secure boot can be disabled, debian 9 probably has a good chance of working
1884 [17:11:05] <jelly> and if you want wireless to work right away,
1885 [17:11:08] <jelly> !firmware images
1886 [17:11:08] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
1887 [17:11:28] <jelly> and if you want to test it a bit,
1888 [17:11:31] <jelly> !firmware live
1889 [17:11:31] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at replaced-url
1890 [17:12:03] <dean> @jelly thanks man. I think this lenovo Is probably my best bet from what I've seen.
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1895 [17:13:03] <jelly> a second hand thinkpad would be nicer but probably not in your price range, or not avialable right away
1896 [17:15:03] <klys> you ppl buying thinkpads should consider this instead replaced-url
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1898 [17:16:38] <jelly> klys, it doesn't have a trackpoint or three physical mouse buttons or a 7 row keyboard
1899 [17:17:35] <dean> kyls don't think that'd really be my thing but thanks.
1900 [17:17:46] <merimel> dean: well manual states this model has BIOS, you can check it in store using f12 key. and this series can come with linux preinstalled in some regions
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1916 [17:30:29] <jelly> hmph
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1919 [17:31:06] <klys> dean, replaced-url
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1929 [17:33:51] <klys> jelly, replaced-url
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1982 [17:54:04] <klys> dean, replaced-url
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2012 [18:09:17] <CuteAlien> Hi. Probably not common enough problem, but I'll ask anyway... anyone here who had the problem that Wacom Bamboo freezes the kernel within using it for a minute on Debian 9 (or Debian 8 with newer kernels) and fixed it? The problem keeps me from updating to new Debian currently :-(
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2014 [18:09:49] <CuteAlien> Reproducible with live cd's.
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2026 [18:12:20] <prussian> CuteAlien: got any stack traces?
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2031 [18:14:07] <CuteAlien> prussian, I can't use the system anymore - not even magic sysrq keys work.
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2033 [18:14:50] <CuteAlien> prussian, there's been bugreports about that in the past for driver developer. But - it seemed to be fixed. I thought :-(
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2035 [18:14:57] <CuteAlien> But maybe didn't make it into Debian
2036 [18:15:18] <CuteAlien> Or fix didn't work - can't tell - not deep enough into this to know, sorry.
2037 [18:15:59] <prussian> do you have anything in /var/log/kern like ------------[ cut here ]------------
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2039 [18:16:09] <CuteAlien> live cd...
2040 [18:16:13] <prussian> usually means you had the kernel throw a stack trace for some kind of reason
2041 [18:16:57] <CuteAlien> I only think it's again kernel because I tried in the past newer kernel on debian 8 and had exact same problem. But didn't debug back then. Just switched kernel back and hoped it would work with Debian 9.
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2044 [18:17:52] <prussian> ya
2045 [18:17:53] <CuteAlien> Can't risk trying again with kernel on my Debian 8 system. With sysrq keys not working it messed up files last time when I forced reboot :-(
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2049 [18:18:19] <prussian> sounds like some stupid kernel module for you drawing tablet doesn't like you. I'm not sure how that works. if it's a HID device or something special
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2051 [18:18:33] <prussian> don't really know much about it
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2056 [18:19:00] <prussian> best bet would be to see if it's writing the kernel panic somewhere, /var/log/kern.log is a good place to start...
2057 [18:19:14] <prussian> journalctl -a might have it too.
2058 [18:19:15] <CuteAlien> Yeah, me neither really... just asked in case I get lucky and someone run into it already and knows a solution.
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2060 [18:19:32] <CuteAlien> Yeah, but how to do that for a live-cd? When everything is frozen...
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2062 [18:20:03] <CuteAlien> Well - mouse still works actually - so not everything is frozen. But sysrq keys no longer work.
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2065 [18:20:25] <prussian> oh.
2066 [18:20:30] <prussian> only the mouse?
2067 [18:20:35] <CuteAlien> yeah
2068 [18:20:45] <prussian> weird. and you can't switch tty though?
2069 [18:20:48] <prussian> or any keyboard input?
2070 [18:20:50] <CuteAlien> nope - no keys
2071 [18:21:09] <somiaj> is this in xorg or a console?
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2073 [18:21:20] <CuteAlien> xorg - can't test tablet in console
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2075 [18:22:05] <somiaj> well it might just be xorg isn't detecting the keyboard, not that the kernel is at fault (since the mouse is working)
2076 [18:22:17] <somiaj> you could also run an ssh server and see if the system is still running, and check the xorg logs
2077 [18:22:20] <CuteAlien> Everything works for a while.
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2079 [18:22:54] <CuteAlien> Even the tablet - for around 1 minute, or a half (not always the same - but every time freezes after a while)
2080 [18:23:14] <CuteAlien> When I don't plug-in the table it also works fine
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2083 [18:23:18] <CuteAlien> *tablet
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2087 [18:24:54] <CuteAlien> There is a bugreport on that (replaced-url
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2094 [18:25:30] <CuteAlien> (obviously I don't know if it's the exact same bug - just sounds the same)
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2096 [18:26:10] <prussian> ya I found similar
2097 [18:26:12] <prussian> replaced-url
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2099 [18:26:19] <prussian> which is weird
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2101 [18:26:33] <CuteAlien> Otherwise - anyone using a cheap (<100€) and somewhat good tablet right now with Debian9? I might just buy a new one if I knew it works.
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2103 [18:27:05] <prussian> have you treid something like Fedora 26? it might have a newer kernel with the fix.
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2105 [18:27:20] <CuteAlien> Ah - don't want to switch :-)
2106 [18:27:53] <CuteAlien> I try installing Ubuntu on another computer right now - could try if it works there - except I got a frozen installer on that right now - lol. Not my day...
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2108 [18:28:15] <CuteAlien> (complete different system - no relation - just bad luck)
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2112 [18:28:31] <prussian> ya I don't know...
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2114 [18:28:50] <prussian> but it appears to be some kernel bug in HID. which is weird.
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2116 [18:29:11] <prussian> not a fatal one though. surprised your mouse even works
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2118 [18:29:24] <prussian> is it some PS/2 or non usb HID device?
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2120 [18:29:42] <CuteAlien> both USB
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2162 [18:43:16] <zaturek> Hello guys! I have a nice problem. I have a laptop with rtl8723b wifi card and without ethernet card. So, currently I have win10, but I need debian.
2163 [18:43:16] <zaturek> My problem is, the installer doesn't find the driver
2164 [18:43:16] <zaturek> which is strange, cos it is in the list
2165 [18:43:16] <zaturek> in the list I get during the install process
2166 [18:43:16] <zaturek> but the installer don't let me use it.
2167 [18:43:16] *** zaturek was kicked by debhelper (flood. Please use replaced-url
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2176 [18:45:56] <toothe> Hi all. I am trying to setup my /etc/network/interfaces file to have a static IPv6 address on my eth0 card.
2177 [18:45:59] <toothe> for some reason, it isn't assigning.
2178 [18:46:03] <toothe> I can't quite figure out why - no error.
2179 [18:46:14] <toothe> Is there a way to paste the output and have ya'll review it?
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2193 [18:50:44] <abrotman> toothe: paste.debian.net
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2200 [18:52:58] <kang00> I am facing issue in connecting with wifi
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2203 [18:53:05] <kang00> Help me to resolve
2204 [18:53:19] *** Joins: neurot (~neurot@replaced-ip )
2205 [18:53:21] <kang00> Tell me some commands which I can run in terminal
2206 [18:53:23] *** Joins: BuDDy2001 (~budd@replaced-ip )
2207 [18:53:27] <kang00> And wifi gets connected
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2229 [19:00:37] <klys> kang00, wpa_supplicant (apt-get install wpasupplicant)
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2233 [19:01:43] <klys> kang00, ifconfig -a; ifconfig wlan0 up 0.0.0.0; iwlist wlan0 scan | less
2234 [19:02:17] <toothe> replaced-url
2235 [19:02:22] <klys> you should see your hotspot in the list if nothing is wrong
2236 [19:02:23] <toothe> That is my /etc/network/interfaces file.
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2238 [19:02:32] <toothe> I want eth0 to have a static IPv6 address, but it doesn't get assigned on reboot.
2239 [19:02:59] <klys> auto lo eth0
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2241 [19:03:10] <Dagger> remove the "gateway 2001:470:7:209::1", it makes no sense
2242 [19:03:38] <toothe> okay - i added that out of desperation.
2243 [19:03:40] <toothe> but, let me give that a go
2244 [19:03:44] <abrotman> toothe: auth eth0
2245 [19:03:51] <toothe> ?
2246 [19:03:53] <abrotman> auto
2247 [19:04:04] <toothe> I do not know what you are asying...
2248 [19:04:09] <Dagger> a) 2001:470:7:209::1 isn't in 2001:470:8:209::, b) you presumably are the gateway for that subnet yourself
2249 [19:04:10] <abrotman> you're missing "auto eth0"
2250 [19:04:17] <klys> toothe, line 7
2251 [19:04:33] <abrotman> nothing wrong with line 7
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2255 [19:04:52] <toothe> yes, I am the gateway.
2256 [19:04:59] <toothe> i'll comment out the gateway line.
2257 [19:05:15] <toothe> okay, commented that out, rebooting.
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2259 [19:05:29] <kango90> klys how can I install something when I can't connect internet
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2261 [19:05:40] <abrotman> toothe: you still need the "auto eth0"
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2263 [19:06:10] <kango90> (klys) kang00, wpa_supplicant (apt-get install wpasupplicant)
2264 [19:06:20] <abrotman> kango90: a USB drive?
2265 [19:06:27] <toothe> just so I know, what does that mean?
2266 [19:06:29] <Dagger> also, from my knowledge of how HE address their tunnels, 2001:470:8:209:: is routed to 2001:470:7:209::2, but you have 2001:470:7:dd5::2 on he-ipv6
2267 [19:06:31] <klys> kango90, if you don't have wifi then use a cable to install it or use the default desktop utility for wifi
2268 [19:06:59] <toothe> yeah, I'll figure out the routing part later.
2269 [19:07:09] <Dagger> if you're 2001:470:7:dd5::2 then you should be using 2001:470:8:dd5::/64 on the LAN. if you're :209: then you should be using :7:209::2/64 on the tunnel
2270 [19:07:11] <toothe> I can easily get that up in a heartbeat, once I Get this stuff working.
2271 [19:07:34] <toothe> rebooted, still no eth0 ipv6 address
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2273 [19:07:43] <Dagger> and you don't need the up/down lines, just use "gateway 2001:470:7:dd5::1" (or 209 or whichever)
2274 [19:07:57] <abrotman> toothe: it will start the interface at boot time
2275 [19:07:57] <Dagger> although of course none of this affects your actual problem
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2281 [19:09:31] <BluesKaj> toothe, which debian? if it's jessie or stretch your ethernet is no longer named eth0, it's enp0s7 or some such
2282 [19:09:55] <toothe> replaced-url
2283 [19:10:00] <toothe> this is raspberian, actually.
2284 [19:10:17] <BluesKaj> ip a will show it's new name in the cli
2285 [19:10:17] <toothe> and man, i hate that enp0s3 naming convention.
2286 [19:10:20] <abrotman> wtf is "manual" ?
2287 [19:10:32] <toothe> I don' tknow.
2288 [19:10:37] <toothe> should I remove it?
2289 [19:10:53] <abrotman> not remove it, try making it "static"
2290 [19:10:56] <toothe> i got frustrated and googled anythign/everything I could find.
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2292 [19:11:46] <kloker> If I installed libogre-dev via apt-get, how do I link it when compiling with g++? Currently using "g++ -lOgreMain -std=c++11 TutorialApplication.cpp -o test" but it gives me error "Couldnt find file OgreCamera.h". How do I find these names (for example lOgreMain)?
2293 [19:12:03] <toothe> works! it was that static vs manual thing
2294 [19:12:07] <toothe> thanks a lot everyone!
2295 [19:12:11] <toothe> phew...that was frustrating.
2296 [19:12:15] <toothe> I was on that for like 2-3 days
2297 [19:12:16] <Dagger> BluesKaj: all my jessie machines use ethN. stretch machines that are upgraded from jessie should also use ethN
2298 [19:12:31] <toothe> now to setup radvd to turn on at boot.
2299 [19:12:35] <CuteAlien> kloker - noth finding header isn't about linking. It's about include path
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2301 [19:12:39] <Dagger> the first paste had "static"...
2302 [19:12:42] <BluesKaj> toothe, replae eth0 with the new name enp0s3 or whatever it is
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2305 [19:12:49] <merimel> in buster ethN will be broken
2306 [19:12:49] <toothe> BluesKaj: no, it actually is eth0.
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2308 [19:13:02] <CuteAlien> kloker - find out where that header is - include that path with -Ithatpath
2309 [19:13:08] <BluesKaj> Dagger, yup
2310 [19:13:16] <abrotman> toothe: no, it was really "auto eth0" .. but manual wasn't helping
2311 [19:13:17] <kloker> CuteAlien: oh ok, how do I know where these headers are located? "locate *Ogre*" didnt give me anything.
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2313 [19:13:30] <toothe> abrotman: ahh...
2314 [19:13:50] <Dagger> (I like how you have to use phrases like "or whatever it is" when talking about predictable network interface names. doesn't sound very predictable :/)
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2316 [19:14:13] <abrotman> toothe: none of your local ISPs offer IPv6?
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2318 [19:14:27] <kloker> CuteAlien: I think I found it, thanks!!!
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2320 [19:14:30] <toothe> abrotman: no...Comcast used to, but I moved and Verizon doesn't offer it.
2321 [19:14:36] <abrotman> Comcast still does
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2323 [19:14:41] <toothe> abrotman: actually no, Verizon is going to offer IPv6 in 2013!
2324 [19:14:48] <toothe> So I'm looking forward to them offering it 4 years ago
2325 [19:14:59] <abrotman> I take that to mean, you can't get Comcast anymore. Though I've noticed TWC and Charter are rolling it out more?
2326 [19:15:01] <toothe> sarcasm....and even Comcast blocked ports
2327 [19:15:10] <toothe> yeah, I moved.
2328 [19:15:11] <abrotman> toothe: blocked ports for what?
2329 [19:15:15] <CuteAlien> kloker, ok. Otherwise - you can use locate only when database is updated (updatedb). Without that you have to use find.
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2332 [19:15:28] <toothe> they block certain ports outbound or ibound, 25, 80, 443, stuff like that.
2333 [19:15:32] <BluesKaj> Am I mistaken that eth0 is not valid , abrotman? or is this a non systemd OS?
2334 [19:15:33] <toothe> typical.
2335 [19:15:42] <kloker> CuteAlien: good to know
2336 [19:15:56] <abrotman> you shouldn't be using 25 to send email. and you sohuldn't be hosting email on a dynamic IP .. but regardless, you can get those unblocked if you wask
2337 [19:15:59] <abrotman> ask
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2340 [19:16:53] <toothe> abrotman: its the principle of it!
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2342 [19:17:17] <toothe> I'm half being silly, half not. I don't really use 25 anyways. But why can't I run a webserver?
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2344 [19:17:41] <toothe> well, i know their justification. I suppose it isn't bad.
2345 [19:17:42] <abrotman> toothe: you can, just ask
2346 [19:17:46] <toothe> it costs money.
2347 [19:17:52] <abrotman> to do what?
2348 [19:18:04] <toothe> as a kid, after the codered virus, I emailed my ISP's technical contacts that I got through their DNS server lol
2349 [19:18:14] <toothe> and asked them to unfilter port 80. I was like 18
2350 [19:18:24] <toothe> they responded back saying they would but I ping too much. No idea what that even meant.
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2353 [19:18:56] <abrotman> well, okay .. glad you got it working .. good luck
2354 [19:18:57] <toothe> alright, I think it works.
2355 [19:19:01] <toothe> yes, thank you very much!
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2358 [19:19:18] <toothe> (I was tongue-in-cheek about port 80 or 25. I would get hosting if I really cared)(
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2365 [19:22:48] <toothe> awesome, chromebook has an IPv6 address
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2389 [19:35:13] <BluesKaj> hm I ask a legit question to a member here, but I'm ignored, no response FU or go to hell or anything. Some users demand respect due to their rank here, but don't feel the need to respect ordinary users.
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2401 [19:42:00] <abrotman> BluesKaj: please rant elsewhere
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2406 [19:43:08] <BluesKaj> heh, respnse..negative, but else can I expect :/
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2408 [19:44:16] <BluesKaj> what else, even
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2448 [20:08:54] <simbalion> Hi, when I try to do 'apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree' in Debian 9 I get "no installation candidate". I have the contrib branch enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list
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2453 [20:09:49] <jmcnaught> simbalion: it's gone, no more flash in Debian. You can install it manually by downloading it from Adobe, but the best thing to do is not use Flash any more if you can
2454 [20:10:02] <simbalion> jmcnaught: that sucks. Livestream still requires flash
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2456 [20:10:30] <CuteAlien> *sigh* wasn't flushplugin-nonfree just a script doing that anyway?
2457 [20:11:19] <jmcnaught> simbalion: the version of firefox-esr in Debian 9 does support that DRM stuff that lets html5 netflix work, I don't know about livestream but maybe you can go without flash with that feature available
2458 [20:11:30] <jmcnaught> CuteAlien: it basically was, but it wasn't getting updated
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2460 [20:11:57] <simbalion> It's a mystery why Livestream hasn't upgraded their website since Flash has been on the chopping block for at least a year.
2461 [20:12:14] <jmcnaught> s/year/decade/
2462 [20:12:31] <CuteAlien> not the only page still using it... can't expect tech to vanish that quickly.
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2464 [20:12:58] <simbalion> CuteAlien: on the contrary. Basically every other major video website supports HTML5 and has for awhile
2465 [20:13:14] <CuteAlien> Same with java really - I also had to switch to firefox-esr because of that
2466 [20:13:45] <CuteAlien> simbalion, yeah, but not everyone just uses the major websites. Some people browse the wild lands beyond facebook
2467 [20:13:47] <jmcnaught> flash support will get dropped from firefox at some point, we're better off without it
2468 [20:13:51] <simbalion> What this probably means is that Livestream is in trouble and is probably going to go bankrupt
2469 [20:14:06] <CuteAlien> For example lots of scientific pages used Java
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2471 [20:14:56] <CuteAlien> And those guys are often not exactly the kind of people enjoying the rewriting of websites unfortunately
2472 [20:15:14] <jmcnaught> Debian 9 *does* have java plugins for browsers, just not flash
2473 [20:15:33] <jmcnaught> however we're drifting off topic
2474 [20:15:36] <CuteAlien> jmcnaught, Firefox no longer has
2475 [20:15:41] <CuteAlien> Except firefox-esr
2476 [20:15:44] <simbalion> Can anyone in here tell me how to install the plugin manually? My firefox folder is /opt/firefox-beta/, so would I just drop the libflashplayer.so in that folder?
2477 [20:16:19] <jmcnaught> simbalion: hah so you're not even using the firefox-esr package?
2478 [20:16:23] <CuteAlien> And I guess flash also has it's uses for many people (anime fans for example will need it still a lot)
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2480 [20:16:57] <simbalion> Ah it goes in ~/.mozilla/plugins/
2481 [20:17:18] <simbalion> jmcnaught: No, firefox is really simple to install manually, doesn't require compiling, and I prefer to have the latest version
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2483 [20:17:31] <simbalion> btw I am trying the 55 beta, it's blazing fast compared to 54 (the current stable)
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2485 [20:18:20] <Brigo> simbalion, replaced-url
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2487 [20:18:33] <simbalion> Brigo: I got it, thanks :)
2488 [20:18:55] <jmcnaught> simbalion: hopefully you don't run your browser as root to update it
2489 [20:19:43] <simbalion> jmcnaught: no I just own the folder with my user account
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2553 [21:03:02] <pie3> what is dhclient used for?
2554 [21:03:24] <Fjorgynn> apt show dhclient
2555 [21:03:34] <Fjorgynn> nope.
2556 [21:03:48] <Fjorgynn> dhcp?
2557 [21:03:50] <Fjorgynn> replaced-url
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2564 [21:09:33] <abrotman> pie3: dhcp requests
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2592 [21:26:07] <somiaj> is there a way to make dmesg work for a normal user in stretch?
2593 [21:26:13] <Mick> Hi, how do i get rid of those annoying 'lost+found' folders beeing created automatically, i want to disable the automated creation to those files....
2594 [21:26:33] <somiaj> Mick: I don't htink you can, they are part of the ext4 file system. You should only have one per file system though.
2595 [21:26:49] <somiaj> they are used for if your file system has an error/is shut down inproperly.
2596 [21:28:14] <somiaj> Mick: please don't message people.
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2600 [21:28:48] <somiaj> replaced-url
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2602 [21:29:11] <cruncher> somiaj, you can echo 0 >/proc/sys/kernel/dmesg_restrict
2603 [21:29:23] <abrotman> somiaj: put them in the adm group
2604 [21:29:23] <cruncher> or use sysctl
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2606 [21:29:38] <somiaj> abrotman: I am in the adm group and still get the error
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2609 [21:30:04] <somiaj> cruncher: I'll look into that, didn't know it was a sysctrl option
2610 [21:30:08] <abrotman> somiaj: cat /var/log/dmesg
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2612 [21:30:09] <jmcnaught> being in the adm group is not enough. there's a note about it in /usr/share/doc/linux-image/amd64/NEWS.Debian.gz, cruncher is correct about the sysctl
2613 [21:30:13] <merimel> # Enable dmesg for user
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2615 [21:30:15] <merimel> kernel.dmesg_restrict=0
2616 [21:30:31] <jmcnaught> or if you are in systemd-journal group those messages are in the journal too
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2619 [21:30:43] <merimel> in /etc/sysctl.conf will enable dmesg for user
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2621 [21:31:03] <Mick> somiaj : guesses are not of any help, please dont clutter my screen...
2622 [21:31:35] <somiaj> Mick: I was not guessing, I was answering those questions. Those directories are part of the ext3/4 file system and are used with fsck and file system corruption.
2623 [21:31:50] * Mick tzzz*
2624 [21:31:58] <somiaj> Mick: you should only have one per file system. If you have lots of ext3/4 file systems, you'll have lots of lost+found direcotires.
2625 [21:32:20] <abrotman> they should be empty
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2629 [21:33:23] * Mick ahh... Silversurfing....silence...
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2634 [21:35:13] <somiaj> jmcnaught, merimel, cruncher: thanks
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2638 [21:37:30] <merimel> somiaj: if you edited config — you can run sysctl -p to reread configs and apply changes
2639 [21:38:15] <somiaj> merimel: I'll keep that in mind. I ran sysctl ... and then added a file in /etc/sysctl.d/local.conf
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2653 [21:46:59] <awal1> systemctl disable bluetooth.service but bluetooth light still on
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2655 [21:47:13] <awal1> i don't see bluetooth stuff in bios
2656 [21:48:22] <jmcnaught> awal1: did you also stop it, what's the status of the service?
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2661 [21:49:57] <somiaj> you might also need to mask it, wonder if that service is on a hook vs run at start.
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2663 [21:51:55] <awal1> jmcnaught, now it is running bcoz I enabled it again. But it is off with systemctl disable bluetooth.service, I don't know why bluetooth 'light' still on even if service disabled
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2666 [21:52:35] <awal1> ok, folks, I'll ask again later having a 2d machine on
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2668 [21:52:44] <jmcnaught> awal1: "systemctl disable …" tells systemd not to start it at boot, but doesn't stop it if it's already running
2669 [21:53:04] <awal1> jmcnaught, i know yeah
2670 [21:53:31] <jmcnaught> awal1: if you never want any bluetooth you could also try blacklisting its kernel modules
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2677 [21:57:27] <jim> so, some have said here, there's no such thing as a "debian base",,, ok, then what is the minimal set of packages that can be installed on a debian, and if that's not called the base, what's it called?
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2680 [21:58:20] <awal1> jmcnaught, right, I don't use bluetooth at all. I was thinking on that yeah. I think I'll just need to create a file called bluetooth.conf in /etc/modeprob.d containing blacklist and any bluetooth stuff will be blocked at startup
2681 [21:58:49] <cruncher> awal1, also try rfkill
2682 [21:59:04] <jim> also, what do you call the set of packages contained in the netinstall image whose purpose is to be installed on a new debian in the case the net can't be configured?
2683 [21:59:12] <awal1> containing "blacklist bluetooth-module-name"
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2687 [22:01:58] <jmcnaught> jim: there are packages considered essential, then there are package priorities required, important, standard, optional, and extra. replaced-url
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2689 [22:02:14] <jmcnaught> jim: you might consider "debian base" to be what debootstrap installs
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2692 [22:03:10] <jim> jmcnaught, ok... there must be a history for not calling those "base" anymore?
2693 [22:03:33] <jim> or not having required/base?
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2695 [22:04:25] <jim> is it that debaian wants to be more flexible about the set of packages first installed?
2696 [22:04:41] <jim> (that explains why that happened)
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2699 [22:05:50] <jim> is what debootstrap installs, and the set of packages in the netinstall image, the same set?
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2701 [22:07:06] <jim> (when I'm helping folks install a debian, right now I have to say "base but debian doesn't call it base anymore, for what reason I dunno"
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2703 [22:07:42] <jim> it would be handy for me to understand that piece :)
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2705 [22:08:12] <somiaj> jim: I call it a minimial system. The netinstall will install more stuff than debootstrap.
2706 [22:08:45] <jim> howbout in the case the net can't be configured early/
2707 [22:08:46] <jim> ?
2708 [22:08:52] <somiaj> same thing
2709 [22:09:03] <somiaj> for one debootstrap won't isntall locales or a kernel (which comes with the netinstall image)
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2711 [22:09:54] <jim> ok, is what debootstrap installs a proper subset of what's in the netinstall image?
2712 [22:10:05] <somiaj> I belive so.
2713 [22:10:09] <awal1> which is my blutooth module name ? replaced-url
2714 [22:11:30] <merimel> first one
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2717 [22:11:58] <jim> how can I figure out if I have a bluetooth... I dunno what to call it, not a device (like bluetooth headphones) but the thing that talks to those devices?
2718 [22:12:11] <awal1> merimel, btrtl?
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2722 [22:14:46] <merimel> awal1: can you install hwinfo?
2723 [22:15:31] <merimel> this tool can get detailed list of hardware driver modules used by them
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2725 [22:16:51] <awal1> merimel, hwinfo sounds interesting yeah. installing...
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2727 [22:17:39] <somiaj> lshw works too
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2740 [22:23:11] <awal1> somiaj, I used lshw in the past. but first time I use hwinfo and it looks like a better tool
2741 [22:23:33] <awal1> but I'm lost with it's outputs. I'll check them closely later
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2744 [22:24:47] <awal1> thanks for your time guys, I have to run now
2745 [22:24:53] <awal1> gn :)
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2749 [22:26:27] <Silversurfer_2> How may i save all currently open terminal windows, so on log-in they would come up ?
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2761 [22:29:17] <n4dir> Silversurfer_2: i think you could achieve that with the app "screen" (or tmux, assuming it is called like that).
2762 [22:29:32] <n4dir> if you don't mean reboot, only log out and back in
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2764 [22:30:31] <somiaj> Silversurfer_2: by currently opened, what do you mean? You could use your session manager to run/open any number of terminals when your de/wm loads.
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2766 [22:30:51] <n4dir> and xfce4 for sure has the option to save the current X session, so on log in, even after reboot, it will be how you left. I guess that is valid for the terminal windows too
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2770 [22:32:44] <pie3> wpa_supplicant -Dwext -iwlp2s0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf dhclient -d iwlp2s0
2771 [22:32:55] <pie3> can someone explain me this command?
2772 [22:33:13] <Silversurfer_2> n4dir: thx, for the info... have to powerdown...
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2787 [22:40:37] <ryouma> xmag menus are unreadable. while i appreciate a good ironic joke as much as anybody else, this is obviously insulting to anybody who cares about accessibility. is there any magnifier that works like osx magnification or compiz, where you can move around while it is still being magnified?
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2794 [22:41:51] <jmcnaught> ryouma: did you try the Zoom feature under "Universal Access" in GNOME?
2795 [22:42:12] <ryouma> jmcnaught: i use fluxbox
2796 [22:42:36] <th0r> ryouma, synaptic lists xzoom.
2797 [22:42:42] <ryouma> what does the zoom feature in gnome do? my computer is too old for gnome, and gnome does not support he features i need that only fluxbox does.
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2799 [22:43:47] <ryouma> i already tried xzoom, gnome-mag, and kmag, and did not find them workable
2800 [22:44:42] <th0r> ryouma, what do you want that xzoom doesn't do?
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2804 [22:45:48] <ryouma> i don't recall what did not work, but typically those thigns are unusable. i use large fonts, so i don't have a whole lot of space for a magnifier window and a window to magnify. and the window to magnify is always full screen. and the juggling of windows is not tenable.
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2807 [22:45:57] <ryouma> in osx, it's even better than having to juggle windows to magnify a window. you actually zoom into the entire desktop. and then yuo can move around and use the mousewheel.
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2809 [22:46:11] <ryouma> osx, and compiz i suspect, work.
2810 [22:46:29] <ryouma> but compiz is a window manager, not a zoomer, and osx is an os, not a zoomer
2811 [22:46:30] <jmcnaught> ryouma: that's how GNOME does it, but it is configurable
2812 [22:46:43] <ryouma> can i run fluxbox and do that?
2813 [22:46:52] <th0r> ryouma, you can resize xzoom to whatever size you want, and put it where you want. It will live update so you can scan a page to read it
2814 [22:47:50] <ryouma> th0r: it's a separate window then. see above. i will try it yet again, but my notes say that i already tried it so it is not a /real/ solution.
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2816 [22:49:52] <ryouma> accessibility in debian is /definitely/ an afterthought
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2818 [22:50:22] <jmcnaught> GNOME seems to have the best accessibility features
2819 [22:50:43] <n4dir> hmm ... compiz is in stretch. wondering if you can use it with fluxbox and then use the magnifier.
2820 [22:50:54] <n4dir> you sure could use compiz with icewm.
2821 [22:51:09] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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2824 [22:52:16] <ryouma> n4dir: what would i do to try that?
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2826 [22:52:59] <n4dir> ryouma: whew, i can't answer it, sorry
2827 [22:53:24] <ryouma> th0r: no, xzoom is not even a partial solution. you have to click or something to show the location. clicking raises the window to be magnified. that window is full screen. the xzoom window, which is already int he way, disappears. if you magnify but cannot view the magnification, the program is less useful than xeyes.
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2829 [22:53:57] <n4dir> been ages i used compiz. Isn't there the panel-button, and you can click on it and then choose to switch wm's and tell compiz to use a wm and such?
2830 [22:54:11] <ryouma> i have never used compiz. it does not exist in jessie iirc.
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2832 [22:54:40] <ryouma> i will install stretch if possible at smoe point, so i am curious if i can get compiz magnification to work from fluxbox
2833 [22:55:06] <ryouma> i thought compiz was an entire wm
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2835 [22:55:48] <ryouma> "To set the location of the magnified are click the left mouse button inside xzoom's window and then move it (keep the button pressed) to the place which you want to see magnified." this makes teh program 100% useless.
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2839 [22:56:58] <n4dir> it kinda is a wm. but it uses (for example) window decoration of (for example) gnome, xfce4, etc.
2840 [22:57:25] <ryouma> if its zoom feature is separate then i am happy. but idk if that is true.
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2843 [22:57:54] <ryouma> but if it requires me to use compiz, then that seems unworkable. perhaps i could switch back and forth, but i am skeptical.
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2847 [22:59:22] <jmcnaught> ryouma: you could try booting into a stretch gnome live cd and test the accessibility features and how well it runs on your computer
2848 [23:00:07] <ryouma> jmcnaught: live cds are super-problematic for me, because they default to unreadable fonts. i'd have to pass that hurdle before i could even test.
2849 [23:00:22] <ryouma> and if i cannot read a font, then i cannot use the computer
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2853 [23:01:40] <jmcnaught> ryouma: what do you need to install on a fresh Debian system to make fonts readable for you?
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2855 [23:02:01] <ryouma> if debian had a switch you could select, which was at 480 resolution, for what size font to use, in its live cd, and if that switch affected everything from kernel to grub to initramfs to console to x to gtk and qt and solecistic programs and legacy programs AND gnome and compiz, then that would work. only putting accessibility into the social contract would achieve that, however.
2856 [23:02:13] <ryouma> jmcnaught: it has taken years to get it right
2857 [23:02:18] <ryouma> and i still ahve problems)
2858 [23:02:35] <ryouma> e.g. sometimes i inadvertently open something in an application that opens an xterm (or whatever it is) in a window running less(1), i want this window to be legible
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2861 [23:03:51] <jmcnaught> well i still think you could try a stretch gnome live cd and test the zoom screen magnification feature and see if it works for you. If it doesn't then don't bother, or maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised
2862 [23:04:34] <ryouma> jmcnaught: you'd be surprised at the number of places where you ened to be able to read things
2863 [23:04:41] <ryouma> before youc an even uset eh computer
2864 [23:04:52] <ryouma> for example, i'd have to find the menu item for zooming. oops.
2865 [23:05:25] <ryouma> debian is REALLY problematic for getting legible fonts everywhere
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2868 [23:07:43] <jmcnaught> ryouma: GNOME zoom magnifies the full screen and follows your mouse around so you can see up close anywhere on the screen
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2871 [23:08:40] <ryouma> jmcnaught: without clicking? and you can zoom in and out using mouse wheel?
2872 [23:09:06] <jmcnaught> zooming is a keyboard shortcut, you might be able to get it working on mouse wheel i don't know
2873 [23:09:17] <ryouma> jmcnaught: unfortunately, my computer is too old for gnome, and gnome does not support he features i need that only fluxbox does. i would never get used to gnome.
2874 [23:09:50] <jmcnaught> well i'm only bringing it up because you brought up accessibility issues, and GNOME does put a lot of focus on accessibility
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2877 [23:10:13] <ryouma> that is in their favor as a development group
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2885 [23:12:43] <jmcnaught> is the computer >10 years old or something? not understanding complete refusal to even test the most accessible option available in Debian
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2897 [23:18:02] <ryouma> yes, the computer is 11yo or so. but even if it were not, i disagree that "complete refusal" is a value-neutral description. it implies that i could try it without much trouble, but refuse to for stubbornness. i doubt you meant that, but that is what came across. i have been through all this before. i have followed these dead ends before. the live cd is quite problematic. and even if i got gnome up, i ahve to
2898 [23:18:02] <ryouma> read the menus. when i cannot read the menus, telling me to read tehm anyway does not make them legible.
2899 [23:18:37] <ryouma> tldr: getting the zoom feature to work requires erading stuff that is not legible.
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2902 [23:21:06] <n4dir> xfce4 seems to have a magnifier build in. If you can use fluxbox, you can use xfce4 too. Installing it also doesn't require much of diskspace (180 MB, iirc). That might be worth a try.
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2909 [23:23:27] <jmcnaught> ryouma: I was suggesting the stretch live cd so you could check if any improvements have been made since the last time you tried
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2912 [23:25:00] <ryouma> jmcnaught: i have the netinst. i presume the live is different? is there a reason to believe the attitude toward font size, hidpi, or accessibility has changed?
2913 [23:25:41] <ryouma> n4dir: thanks, i also found that on a superuser site. if i can figure out switching wm back and forth then perhaps i can try xfce4 to find out whether it is suitable or not doing so. the only other option i seem to have is to take a screenshot, change the dot files for feh, and use that to zoom.
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2915 [23:26:16] <ryouma> then change dot files back
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2917 [23:26:35] <blt> sudo dnf install sane-utis ... funny typo of the day
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2921 [23:27:14] <n4dir> ryouma: switching wm's is rather easy. Do you use a display-manager (like gdm) or a file (like ~/.xinitrc) ?
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2923 [23:27:21] <ryouma> have there been calls for accessibility to be a formal priority in debian just like e.g. man pages for programs?
2924 [23:27:34] <ryouma> n4dir: .xinitrc
2925 [23:27:58] <ryouma> i'd hnave to have both xfce and fluxbox be able to exec the other. dunno if xfce can do that.
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2927 [23:28:19] <ryouma> or even if fluxbox can, properly
2928 [23:28:31] <n4dir> add a line for xfce, probably "exec xfce4-session" (or similar). comment the line for fluxbox, run startx, xfce4 will start. To switch back do it the other way around
2929 [23:28:34] <blt> crap, i'm in #debian, whups. nvm
2930 [23:28:44] <blt> sorry for the noise
2931 [23:28:45] <CoderEurope> !debian
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2933 [23:28:46] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, debian is replaced-url
2934 [23:29:00] <ryouma> n4dir: so you're saying quit all of my programs just to magnify one thing?
2935 [23:29:07] <ryouma> untenable
2936 [23:29:25] <n4dir> i meant to use it instead of fluxbox, not to magnify one thing
2937 [23:30:00] <n4dir> though iirc the fluxbox menu has the option to switch the wm on the fly (without stopping all programs)
2938 [23:30:01] <ryouma> fluxbox does things that xfce4 cannot do, and even if xfce4 does what i need, i don't want to guive up the only thing that woks for everythign else
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2940 [23:30:38] <n4dir> wondering what those things might be.
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2944 [23:32:59] <n4dir> ryouma: for quite a while fluxbox was the main wm of the distribution antix. Might be some of the folks at their forum have a good idea how to help you.
2945 [23:33:46] <well_laid_lawn> there is #fluxbox
2946 [23:34:06] <n4dir> yeah, good point
2947 [23:34:21] <ryouma> indeed, the question is if i can switch back /and forth/ between xfce4 and fluxbox
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2949 [23:34:54] <ryouma> (adn if xfce4 zooming erally works well enough)
2950 [23:34:58] <well_laid_lawn> you can use fluxbox as the wm in xfce
2951 [23:35:23] <ryouma> and then turn off /everythign/ else xfce4 does?
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2953 [23:36:00] <n4dir> it doesn't do that much ...
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2957 [23:36:49] <ryouma> zooming is not the only thing i do with a computer. it is something i need only when some program fails to respect dpi. so changing to a de when i don't need one, just to get this occasional feature, is a sign that somethign is wrong with the overall picture.
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2959 [23:37:48] <well_laid_lawn> sounds like you haven't set fonts up properly
2960 [23:37:54] <ryouma> there is, apparently, no requierment in deiban that programs respect dpi. there is a requirement that programs hav man pages.
2961 [23:37:56] <n4dir> those were only proposals.
2962 [23:38:02] <hubot> How to make own Linux distro based on Debian?
2963 [23:38:03] <ryouma> well_laid_lawn: i hve spejnt years setting up fonts.
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2965 [23:38:36] <n4dir> hubot: you could look at refracta-tools, refracta-snapshot or such. As *one* option
2966 [23:39:01] <ryouma> well_laid_lawn: i have set x, gtk, qt, grub, and various programs' fonts. they work for most things. but there are still plenty of places where fonts are too small and nobody cares because it is no skin off their back.
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2969 [23:39:25] <ryouma> well_laid_lawn: if you can tell me proper font setting that will cover all the exceptions, i'd be delighted
2970 [23:39:27] <well_laid_lawn> all works fine here
2971 [23:40:01] <ryouma> because you do not need large fonts and probably don't notice when fonts are not adjustable
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2974 [23:40:17] <ryouma> because they look fine
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2976 [23:40:42] <well_laid_lawn> more than likely
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2984 [23:42:18] <ryouma> i think the root cause is that accessibility is almost an anti-priority in debian. if it were even mentioned as smoething to be considered, more people would realize "oh i didn't realize" and make the typically small changes needed to make things work properly. and if it were a FORMAL priority, just like man pages were a formal priority, things would change.
2985 [23:42:23] <random_numbers> What's the name of the package for latex info-manual?
2986 [23:42:38] <ryouma> s/were/are/
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2992 [23:44:45] <n4dir> ryouma: other distributions work?
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2994 [23:45:23] <ryouma> n4dir: no clue, debian has been my only distro, ever. i did not need large fonts for the many unices i tried. osx works, but i want debian.
2995 [23:45:45] <ryouma> i do know that ubuntu at least claims to support accessbility
2996 [23:45:55] <ryouma> but then debian claims to be for everybody also :(
2997 [23:46:00] <jmcnaught> ryouma: I don't think that's quite fair but it's clear that you are frustrated. Debian does have accessibility features, that maybe don't work on older computers quite as well but are there. Did you try anything like replaced-url
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3002 [23:47:38] <ryouma> jmcnaught: i will try xrandr panning, thank you for the idea
3003 [23:47:40] <menace> is there a way to get all binary packages from a source package with a apt command without installing the source package or one of its binary-packages?
3004 [23:48:20] <ryouma> debian in its bug reports often values mere user preferences above accessibility needs. i think this indicates an attitude.
3005 [23:48:52] <ryouma> (same is true of firefox)
3006 [23:51:23] <ryouma> i have to stop typing. thank you all for your suggestions.
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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