People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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32 [00:19:47] <multi_io> are there people who configure their network via their own scripts rather than /etc/networks, but still manage to integrate nicely with systemd units that depend on network-related systemd services?
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36 [00:21:28] <somiaj> multi_io: How are you wanting to configure your network? What is wrong with /etc/network/interfaces? What method are you trying to use?
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38 [00:22:23] <multi_io> somiaj: my own script, basically
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40 [00:23:30] <multi_io> it's a relatively complicated setup, a router two nested bridges (one physical, one software) and a WLAN AP / hostapd as part of one of the bridge...
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42 [00:24:38] <TomTomTo1> will stretch release with icedove? so far thunderbird is only in sid.
43 [00:24:39] <multi_io> I just barely got this to work using a bunch of brctl / ip up etc. statements and a hostapd.conf, I don't even know if this can be mapped to /etc/network/interfaces
44 [00:25:01] <somiaj> multi_io: you can run personal preup and postup scripts with the interfaces to make anything possible.
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46 [00:25:06] <multi_io> ...and what the point of doing so would be
47 [00:25:14] <multi_io> hm
48 [00:25:41] <somiaj> TomTomTo1: if it isn't in stretch, most likely not, it is really hard to get a package back in stretch yet, have you checked the package tracker page why it was removed from testing?
49 [00:26:43] <somiaj> multi_io: I guess you could bypass the debian scripts, you may just have to make your own unit file or modify the networking target to ensure things work well at boot. I'm unsure on the details here, but I suggest using using the interfaces file so you don't have to go through all that
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56 [00:29:20] <multi_io> somiaj: yeah, that's basically my question, whether anyone has done this before
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59 [00:29:45] <multi_io> maybe I'm just ignorant to not want to do it the standard way lol
60 [00:29:55] <multi_io> *standard debian way
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66 [00:31:30] <TomTomTo1> somiaj: they are both built from the icedove source package, so they share a tracker page. replaced-url
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70 [00:32:49] <somiaj> TomTomTo1: yea looks like all the recent updates in icedove didn't make it into stretch in time for the freeze. There are exceptions that can be made, but I see some RC bugs against icedove, it could be that they are going to have to backport the security fixes and the likes to the version in stretch
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75 [00:34:36] <somiaj> TomTomTo1: I do see this, Ignoring block request by freeze, due to unblock request by pochu -- but it is only 3 of 10 days old. So it maybe that the new version is on its way into stretch. Appears the matainer got an exception/unblock for this package.
76 [00:35:46] <TomTomTo1> somiaj: awesome. i missed that. thanks.
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126 [01:07:31] <\\Mr_C\\> can debian display images from console if there is no desktop manager installed?
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129 [01:10:10] <vlt> \\Mr_C\\: I’d say yes but don’t know exactly how.
130 [01:10:26] <somiaj> there are ways to display images in framebuffers, though with kms modules now more common a lot of the framebuffer info is outdated.
131 [01:10:37] <vlt> something something framebuffer
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148 [01:26:28] <cef> \\Mr_C\\: do you just want images? If so, look at the 'fbi' package
149 [01:26:45] <\\Mr_C\\> yea
150 [01:26:47] <\\Mr_C\\> just installed it
151 [01:26:50] <\\Mr_C\\> and it works
152 [01:26:54] <cef> :D
153 [01:26:58] <\\Mr_C\\> cool, thanks
154 [01:27:17] <\\Mr_C\\> feh dont work though
155 [01:27:22] <cef> I've also used directvnc before...
156 [01:27:24] <\\Mr_C\\> is that for xwindows only?
157 [01:27:48] <cef> thought it was direct to framebuffer
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165 [01:30:05] <cef> \\Mr_C\\: I might be thinking of a different app than fbi
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167 [01:31:45] <\\Mr_C\\> can it play videos too?
168 [01:31:47] <\\Mr_C\\> like mpg?
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171 [01:32:59] <\\Mr_C\\> yea
172 [01:33:12] <\\Mr_C\\> fbi without anything extra
173 [01:33:22] <\\Mr_C\\> will show photos
174 [01:33:28] <Brigo> there was an application called zgv ages ago :D
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176 [01:33:44] <cef> yeah only copy of zgv now is X based. :(
177 [01:34:41] <cef> there's libdirectfb-bin and libdirectfb-extras, but dunno if there is tools that do video.
178 [01:34:42] <Brigo> if the program supports SVGAlib, you can use it in console, like mplayer2.
179 [01:34:59] <Brigo> cef, video is very difficult
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181 [01:35:21] <Brigo> cef, you lose all acceleration.
182 [01:35:21] <cef> Brigo: I know..
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185 [01:38:40] <cef> mplayer2 supports the DirectFB lib
186 [01:39:02] <cef> mplayer2 --vo=directfb
187 [01:39:28] <cef> probably need directfb-bin and directfb-extra installed.
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215 [02:03:28] <Papillon> so netinst isn't letting me make my root partition bootable...
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217 [02:05:38] <Papillon> I'm thinking creating a bootable partition while installing debian would be a plus
218 [02:06:23] <Papillon> am I going to have to alt tab and partition from the command line?
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220 [02:08:19] <somiaj> what do you mean by bootable? The bootable flag really doesn't do much when using a bootloader like grub
221 [02:08:38] <sypher> Papillon: How big is the disk?
222 [02:08:48] <Papillon> 3tb
223 [02:08:57] <Papillon> is boot flag not a thing with the new format thing
224 [02:09:00] <Papillon> gpft or whatever
225 [02:09:01] <sypher> Papillon: That means you're automatically using GPT, which doesn't have a bootable flag.
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227 [02:09:23] <somiaj> Papillon: the boot flag wasn't much of a thing outside of the standard mbr which linux didn't normally use.
228 [02:09:39] <sypher> Papillon: That also means you need to create a small partition (1 MB) at the start of the disk and set it to "BIOS reserved," or it will most likely fail to boot.
229 [02:09:48] <sypher> Papillon: Unless you're using EFI.
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231 [02:11:42] <Papillon> does the format matter? should it be some form of fat?
232 [02:11:54] <sypher> Papillon: Are you doing an EFI install, or not?
233 [02:12:10] <Papillon> probably bios, it's a core 2 duo box
234 [02:12:20] <sypher> Papillon: Are we talking about that first small partition?
235 [02:12:25] <Papillon> yes
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239 [02:13:18] <sypher> Papillon: If you set the type to BIOS reserved, it won't give you any other options. It's not designed to house a filesystem.
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252 [02:19:50] <ryouma> i want to increase the volume higher than max. is this possible? many source material videos are too soft. for example, on youtube.
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254 [02:20:33] <Papillon> vlc can do that I think
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256 [02:20:44] <somiaj> or get an external amp, and increase it that way
257 [02:20:58] <ryouma> Papillon: good idea, but can i do it when i am just browsing around youtube too?
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259 [02:21:29] <ryouma> i don't want to get more hardware
260 [02:21:51] <Papillon> I think there have been times when you can view youtube videos through vlc
261 [02:22:05] <Papillon> but I think sometimes youtube changes things and it stops working
262 [02:22:09] <ryouma> Papillon: but i'm in firefox, and i just want to watch
263 [02:22:59] <Papillon> you might be able to get firefox to use vlc as it's codec and it's possible, although unlikely, that you could do it that way but I doubt it
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265 [02:23:07] <Papillon> if you want a video to be louder try opening it in vlc
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268 [02:23:54] <somiaj> you can use youtube-dl
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274 [02:29:41] <Papillon> so xfce, cinnamon, mate, and lxde... are any of those a minimalist window manager?
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276 [02:30:27] <bazhang> did you mean DE
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279 [02:31:49] <Papillon> well I'm not looking for everything a typical de like gnome or kde has, but sure
280 [02:33:05] <somiaj> Papillon: none, you want a more minimuilst window manager, debian has tons of those i3, openbox, fluxbox, ratposion, fvwm, awseomwm, twm, and many more
281 [02:33:13] <bazhang> so your real question is: what are the lightest de?
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283 [02:33:34] <bazhang> wm is something else
284 [02:33:51] <somiaj> Papillon: xfce, cinnamon, mate and lxde are still DE's, mate is basically gnome 2, cinimon is a gnome-shell fork of some type, xfce and lxde would be the lightest, with lxde the lightest in the de dpeartment.
285 [02:34:21] <Papillon> thanks
286 [02:34:30] <bazhang> Papillon, just go for the super lightest, and make it cli only
287 [02:34:53] <Papillon> CLIs are for people who can't interface with a computer through binary
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291 [02:37:27] <ryouma> afaik youtube-dl means you copy the url and paste it onto the command line and then type youtube-dl and then hit enter? i wonder if thaere is an extension for firefox that just launches vlc
292 [02:38:07] <ryouma> debian has a ton of de and wm. you can go online to compare their memory footprint.
293 [02:38:14] <somiaj> there are extensions from firefox you can download youtube using some button on the page
294 [02:40:00] <ryouma> somiaj: i frequently cannot use the keyboard. so then i would have to know when it has finished dling and then a script launched from menu to run it when it has dled. the knowng when done might be problematic.
295 [02:40:22] <ryouma> so i'm guessing the answer is: no, in linux or debian, there is no increasing the volume more than max
296 [02:40:34] <Papillon> it may be possible
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298 [02:41:46] <somiaj> just get some speakers with an external amplifier.
299 [02:41:46] <awal1> 'pulseaudio' lets you increase volume much more than max
300 [02:42:31] <ryouma> somiaj: need to avoid hardware solutions
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302 [02:42:51] <awal1> 'pasystray' is the a nice frontend for pulse
303 [02:43:16] <awal1> well, I haven't followed your topic, sorry if I'm completely "out"
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305 [02:44:24] <ryouma> i purged pulseaudio because it produced sound only about half the time. without pulseaudio, sound is perfect. except for this volume issue.
306 [02:44:35] <ryouma> pulseaudio was random in its behavior
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308 [02:45:06] <Papillon> replaced-url
309 [02:45:10] <awal1> ryouma, pulse have been largely improved now
310 [02:45:23] <petn-randall> ryouma: You can't have more than one program generating sound though, unless you sound card supports multiple inputs.
311 [02:45:36] <awal1> it works fine under sid/stretch, compared to jessie/wheezy
312 [02:45:54] <ryouma> petn-randall: dunno, sound works great on jessie without pulseaudio, and i never needed any of its features
313 [02:46:23] <petn-randall> ryouma: I guess you have such a soundcard then.
314 [02:46:41] <Papillon> AFAIK ALSA can't do this directly to output, buuut you can add a preamp to increase the input volume
315 [02:46:52] <Papillon> replaced-url
316 [02:46:53] <ryouma> petn-randall: multiple inputs? i dont have any inputs into my sound card other than the computer itself. no microphones etc.
317 [02:47:00] <Papillon> replaced-url
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319 [02:47:11] <ryouma> and if i play 2 videos they both make sound. not that i want that.
320 [02:47:30] <Papillon> inputs as in sound sources, e.g. firefox is one input, vlc is a second, what if they play sound at the same time, that sound has to be mixed into one output
321 [02:48:31] <Papillon> so if you're like, running a 80x86 with an IBM sound option card you may be SOL
322 [02:48:38] <ryouma> Papillon: thanks those links look like maybe they are what i want, not sure yet
323 [02:48:43] <Papillon> music feature card, sorry
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327 [02:49:41] <danblack> has anyone reported the 403 errors on replaced-url
328 [02:50:59] <centrx> What errors?
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331 [02:51:22] <Papillon> 8088
332 [02:51:33] <danblack> 403 permission denied
333 [02:51:37] <Papillon> it loads for me
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339 [02:55:37] <sypher> Loads without issue for me.
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341 [02:57:31] <danblack> replaced-url
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346 [03:00:45] <danblack> looking at dns it appears its mirrored
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361 [03:14:21] <Papillon> so if I installed lilo on gpt it would fail to boot?
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374 [03:22:53] <Papillon> how do I figure out how many poweron hours a hard drive has?
375 [03:23:27] <bazhang> ##hardware Papillon
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379 [03:26:23] <newcoder> linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.1-rt-686-pae , what is rt here?
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381 [03:26:55] <bazhang> realtime
382 [03:27:05] <newcoder> What does it do?
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385 [03:27:50] <Papillon> realtime kernels are designed to give you a soft guarantee of response time
386 [03:29:00] <newcoder> Papillon: What is 'soft guarantee of response time'?
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388 [03:29:54] <danblack> Papillon: smartctl -a /dev/sdX - its one of the attributes
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390 [03:30:33] <Papillon> there are different types of realtime systems. Take, for instance, a anti-lock brake system. It needs to measure whether or not a wheel is slipping and it needs to produce the appropriate signal very quickly, but, more importantly, it needs to do it on a predictible schedule.
391 [03:30:53] <Papillon> if you're making an anti-lock brake system, you determine a minimum response time
392 [03:31:21] <Papillon> so for that, you need a hard realtime system, to make sure that your sensing of wheel slip, and your control of braking is reliable enough
393 [03:31:41] <Papillon> but not all real time systems have such important requirements
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397 [03:32:22] <Papillon> for less important systems you can use a soft realtime system, for, for instance, audio recording, where you still want a reliable response time, but have more flexibility
398 [03:33:02] <Papillon> people don't die if you record a noise one one hundredth of a second later than you wanted to
399 [03:35:32] <Papillon> generally realtime systems are good if you need them (you're doing audio recording) but bad if you're not, because they make your system slower to reserve time for things that have realtime requirements
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454 [04:14:15] <dgriffi> anyone here use MATE and recently upgrade to Stretch? Please tell me where the option to change window border colors went.
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471 [04:21:31] <kohntact> /msg dpkg guidelines
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473 [04:22:19] <kohntact> #flood /msg dpkg guidelines
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487 [04:35:44] <mister-homelab> Hey, I'm installing debian jessie onto a dell r710 for the first time. I'm looking for some help. I just finished the install sequence without too much difficulty, but I keep getting an error when I try to boot.
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490 [04:36:17] <mister-homelab> "Error: attempt to read or write outside of disk 'hd0'." It then runs grub rescue mode.
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493 [04:37:20] <mister-homelab> So far I've gotten set root=(hd0,gpt2) to work, but that's about it.
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495 [04:39:38] <Papillon> it has uefi?
496 [04:39:56] <Papillon> rather you're booting via uefi?
497 [04:40:35] <mister-homelab> I'm not sure. I can check.
498 [04:40:37] <mister-homelab> Sec.
499 [04:41:33] <mister-homelab> Sorry for the wait, dell server boot times are pretty awful
500 [04:41:47] <LiuYan> mister-homelab: the Dell R710 we bought does not seems have ueif support
501 [04:42:40] <Papillon> replaced-url
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503 [04:43:18] <mister-homelab> Papillon: I tried that
504 [04:43:33] <mister-homelab> The partition is hd0,gpt2
505 [04:43:45] <mister-homelab> I get the same error when trying insmod normal
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508 [04:44:28] <mister-homelab> and Papillon, I am in bios now, UEFI is possible
509 [04:45:09] <mister-homelab> I'm going to try that
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511 [04:45:12] <Papillon> did you manually partition your drive? Bios boot on a gpt partition on grub requires a small bios reserved partition
512 [04:45:42] <mister-homelab> No, I went via the graphical installer and went with the recommended options.
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517 [04:48:16] <Papillon> there's a stack exchange post that suggests grub-mkdevicemap grub-install /dev/sda update-grub
518 [04:48:39] <mister-homelab> Can you link it?
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525 [04:55:19] <dgriffi> did anyone check over MATE to make sure it didn't introduce any jarring changes?
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529 [04:57:02] <dgriffi> problem 1) can't change colors of active/passive highlights 2) windows pressed against the top of the desktop get maximized. no way to turn that off. 3) there's room to automatically place a window, but window manager ignores that space and drops it right in the middle of the screen.
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534 [05:02:52] <Papillon> replaced-url
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565 [05:26:26] <meh> hello
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620 [06:15:56] <ferdianza> a
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625 [06:20:25] <ferdianza> hello
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694 [07:24:53] <j4ckcom> debian can’t have sound?
695 [07:24:57] <j4ckcom> :(
696 [07:25:07] <j4ckcom> i can’t hear any sound :(
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702 [07:27:15] <remo> why in stretch vim compilled without python ? -python +python3
703 [07:27:44] <j4ckcom> help me Debian member, how can i hear sound?
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706 [07:33:02] <Epakai> remo: replaced-url
707 [07:33:03] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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717 [07:37:28] <remo> Epakai, yep, python3 support, but why add python3 support and -python ?
718 [07:38:10] <remo> Epakai, E319: Sorry, the command is not available in this version: python << EOF
719 [07:38:19] <Epakai> it's in the bug
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722 [07:39:18] <remo> Epakai, where can I find "this bug" ?
723 [07:39:28] <remo> Epakai, in link another bug
724 [07:40:15] <Epakai> i linked it. then judd linked it again #729924
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771 [08:21:06] <Dungeon> hey guys i did something stupid :p
772 [08:21:11] <Dungeon> lol
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776 [08:22:45] <Dungeon> if you chmod 755 /home/user but forget the /public_html
777 [08:22:46] <Dungeon> lol
778 [08:23:02] <Dungeon> what do you chmod the user dir back to by default?
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780 [08:25:26] <deego> Dungeon: chmod -R go-rwX ~
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782 [08:26:04] <deego> or, for good measure, chmod -R go-rwx ~
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785 [08:26:36] <deego> then, go back to public_html and handle that
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809 [08:50:26] <Dungeon> well i ended up removing the user
810 [08:50:36] <Dungeon> removing the directory
811 [08:50:53] <Dungeon> then readding the user then readding the public_html dir
812 [08:50:55] <Dungeon> lol
813 [08:51:15] <Dungeon> chgrp replaced-url
814 [08:52:38] <deego> :)
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849 [09:24:15] <Dungeon> chgrp replaced-url
850 [09:24:44] <Dungeon> should change the boxs page to accessing that instead of the default one apache shows?"
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859 [09:32:21] <Dungeon> btw i was looking at lamp setup from replaced-url
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861 [09:32:48] <Dungeon> i can see ip/~fineuo
862 [09:33:49] <Dungeon> but ip doesnt show that dir and i have set chgrp replaced-url
863 [09:34:10] <Dungeon> so default page for ip should be the same as ip/~fineuo ya?
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870 [09:42:01] <Voldenet> Quick question - why is startcom still not distrusted?
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874 [09:43:49] <Voldenet> I heard that in some distros it already is
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890 [09:54:56] <Dungeon> anyone know?
891 [09:55:20] <Dungeon> and i thought phpmyadmin was a server config util not just a database tool?
892 [09:55:27] <Dungeon> i know webmin can be used
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901 [10:00:07] <rgr> which dropbox should we be running on our debian gnome3 setups? I seem to have 2 different DB processes ( no, not two threads of the same process). the dropbox-dist one and a plain dropbox.
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942 [10:15:22] <Meerkat> Is it possible to install all packages? Has anyone tried this?
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944 [10:15:57] <klaas> I got a question about bonding, I have an lacp bonding interface - the incoming traffic gets devided like I'd expect (more or less 50%/50%) but the outgoing traffic is like 99%/1% on one device -- did I mess up my configuration?
945 [10:16:15] <themill> Meerkat: no it is not
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949 [10:17:45] <Meerkat> that's unfortunate. It would be one heck of a youtube video
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953 [10:19:34] <themill> Only in the sense of replaced-url
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959 [10:24:33] <SwedeMike> klaas: it's always the outgoing device that is making the decision how to do the load sharing between bonded interface. What device is it that isn't load sharing equally?
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962 [10:25:56] <klaas> I have eth0/1 in bond0 with lacp - all outgoing traffic is going through eth1 instead of being shared between both interfaces
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964 [10:26:19] <klaas> so I'm wondering why that is the case and why incoming traffic works fine :)
965 [10:26:38] <klaas> but I guess incoming traffic is done by the upstream router :D
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976 [10:31:08] <SwedeMike> klaas: yes, what component in a LAG to use it done by egress device, so if it works well on a router and not well on your debian machine, then debian and that router have different algorithms for how to load share traffic.
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986 [10:32:58] <SwedeMike> klaas: replaced-url
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988 [10:33:12] <SwedeMike> klaas: look into xmit_hash_policy
989 [10:33:34] <klaas> SwedeMike okay, thanks -- will do
990 [10:33:38] <SwedeMike> klaas: you need to set this to something L3 or L4 related
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994 [10:34:49] <SwedeMike> klaas: "layer3+4" seems to be the one you should choose.
995 [10:35:57] <Dungeon> when i try to install webmin im getting an error on debian 8
996 [10:36:24] <klaas> yeah, SwedeMike seems like -- thank you for the quick help
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999 [10:38:41] <Dungeon> webmin depends on apt-show-versions; however:
1000 [10:38:44] <Dungeon> Package apt-show-versions is not installed.
1001 [10:38:56] <teraflops> Dungeon: consider it a signal. you dont want to install such crap
1002 [10:39:06] <Dungeon> however i cant get that to install with apt
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1004 [10:39:11] <Dungeon> lol
1005 [10:39:20] <teraflops> !webmin
1006 [10:39:20] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
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1008 [10:39:52] <Dungeon> best backdoor server config util isnt it?
1009 [10:40:19] <Dungeon> got phpmyadmin but that doesnt do jack for system config that i see
1010 [10:40:34] <teraflops> you better dont use it. but not exposing it to intetnet is a god idea
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1013 [10:42:15] <Dungeon> oh loggin into that over firefox as phpmyadmin with the password is a nono?
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1015 [10:44:34] <teraflops> Dungeon: im not the right person to ask about such things. I hate them all. so im definitely biased
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1057 [11:11:56] <kirillow> can i just install kernel 4.10 on debian stretch?
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1131 [11:40:19] <DustyDingo> hi,... i struggle with configuring suspend/hibernate with systemd,... pretty undocumented imho
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1134 [11:40:42] <DustyDingo> i have no swap partition and therefore want to disable hibernate
1135 [11:41:03] <DustyDingo> but do suspend instead,...
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1138 [11:41:35] <DustyDingo> however,... works perfectly when i am on battery but if the AC is connected systemd does hibernate and crashes the system
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1225 [12:32:52] <abff> I just did an upgrade and was spat 77 warnings
1226 [12:32:55] <abff> replaced-url
1227 [12:33:25] <abff> Is nouveau going to implode when I reboot?
1228 [12:36:01] <abff> nvm #nouveau says I'm covered, they are firmwares for a card I don't sue
1229 [12:36:03] <abff> use*
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1234 [12:38:05] <shtrb> Is there a gui/command line tool for odin (cloud service software) in debian ?
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1243 [12:47:13] <abff> Was looking over their web pages, seems like they're deep in redhat's pocket
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1245 [12:47:53] <shtrb> abff , was for me ?
1246 [12:47:56] <shtrb> *was it for me
1247 [12:48:15] <abff> Yeah, sorry didn't highlight
1248 [12:48:23] <shtrb> I'm ok with a gui or command line - as long it will have an interface in English :-(
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1250 [12:48:36] <abff> replaced-url
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1252 [12:48:51] <abff> They seem to only support redhat and centOS
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1254 [12:49:47] <shtrb> ok , how did you get to the download link ?
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1258 [12:50:15] <shtrb> ahh , found it
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1260 [12:50:44] <shtrb> but I'm searching for an end user solution (that link seem to provide the server side)
1261 [12:51:19] <shtrb> abff ,thanks
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1263 [12:51:57] <abff> Ah their so called "management node", you'd have to ask them
1264 [12:52:28] <DK2> is it possible to access data with a md raid 0 and one broken drive out of two?
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1266 [12:52:35] <DK2> in a Live linux
1267 [12:52:42] <DK2> or is it completely gone?
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1269 [12:52:59] <p0g0> DK2: iirc, that is a mirror, and you should have a working copy
1270 [12:53:15] <shtrb> DK2 , you should be safe
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1273 [12:53:34] <p0g0> DK2: I haven't done this in a long time, but you just need to break the md pair
1274 [12:53:39] <DK2> but it is configured as raid0
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1276 [12:53:52] <DK2> cant test it before monday yet, so...
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1278 [12:54:09] <p0g0> or, again, from memory, you can just remirror, and restore it to a two drive image.
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1280 [12:54:19] <shtrb> oh sorry , you are #%#%
1281 [12:54:27] <p0g0> me?
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1283 [12:54:32] <shtrb> no , DK2
1284 [12:54:39] <shtrb> if one disk dead on raid0
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1287 [12:54:55] <shtrb> I meant you are in problamtic state
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1289 [12:55:25] <DK2> haha yes i guess so
1290 [12:55:35] <DK2> but is there any chance to recover data from the intact drive?
1291 [12:55:39] <DK2> i guess not
1292 [12:55:46] <shtrb> depending on your setup
1293 [12:56:04] <shtrb> I was able to extract data when part of the partion had been broken by bad DD
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1295 [12:56:53] <shtrb> sometimes the "failure" can be fixed
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1297 [12:57:20] <shtrb> the IT guys did some wonders , and a device that wasn't even recognised went back to work after their magic
1298 [12:57:28] <p0g0> OK, it is not a mirror, I am wrong...
1299 [12:57:40] <DK2> well atleast half of the data shouldbe still there
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1301 [12:59:01] <shtrb> DK2 , if you can backup the "working" and non "working" devices for now
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1305 [13:00:58] <shtrb> DK2 , the "half" data is block level
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1326 [13:13:55] <yolan> hello, any idea when Stretch will be released?
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1328 [13:14:25] <towo`> when it's done
1329 [13:14:25] <shtrb> it wasn't ?
1330 [13:14:28] <towo`> as allways
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1332 [13:14:50] <yolan> yep, but any idea WHEN?
1333 [13:14:51] <shtrb> towo`,isn't freeze mean it's done ?
1334 [13:14:58] <yolan> between x date, and y date?
1335 [13:15:10] <towo`> shyou see a release?
1336 [13:15:26] <towo`> shtrb,
1337 [13:15:40] <shtrb> towo`, yes
1338 [13:15:46] <towo`> shtrb, and btw, freeze does not mean it's done
1339 [13:15:52] <shtrb> ok
1340 [13:16:06] <yolan> so it's in freeze? cool
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1342 [13:16:16] <towo`> it's done if the rc bug count goes to zero
1343 [13:16:18] <yolan> mean it'll be out soon, in a few weeks maybe :)
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1346 [13:17:05] <themill> s/weeks/months/
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1349 [13:18:24] <yolan> towo`, what do "rc" in rc bugs count mean?
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1352 [13:18:36] <towo`> release critical
1353 [13:18:59] <themill> !rc bugs
1354 [13:18:59] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
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1357 [13:19:35] <shtrb> how can't it be shipped with 818172 and friends is beyong me
1358 [13:19:54] <yolan> Total number of release-critical bugs: 1630
1359 [13:19:58] <yolan> well shit.
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1361 [13:20:13] <shtrb> unless having no two plasma session is normal thing
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1368 [13:24:17] <abff> yolan I think thats every bug ever recorded, not how many need to be fixed for stretch. I think taht number is 122
1369 [13:24:49] <towo`> Number concerning the next release: 241
1370 [13:24:51] <shtrb> There is/was a bug that would cause plasma to hang after a while (workaround is to switch to a different tty) and another one that prevented two plasma sessions.
1371 [13:24:57] <towo`> that is the important number
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1376 [13:26:26] <abff> shtrb what's plasma?
1377 [13:26:40] <abff> KDE workspaces?
1378 [13:26:53] <shtrb> one of the subsystems used by the plasma-desktop etc
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1382 [13:27:42] <abff> gotcha
1383 [13:27:50] <shtrb> so if you are using KF5/plasma/sddm you going to have a bad time
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1387 [13:29:41] <shtrb> abff , but if you use something else or don't care about freezing it's ok
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1389 [13:30:14] <abff> I use xfce, but I was interested in KDE
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1439 [13:58:10] <TwistedFate> what is the average cycle of packages dropping in from experimental > unstable > testing?
1440 [13:59:21] <themill> packages don't move between experimental and unstable at all. At the moment, packages don't move from unstable to testing without explicit permission
1441 [13:59:24] <themill> !freeze
1442 [13:59:24] <dpkg> The 'freeze' is when large changes to testing version of Debian are stopped for few months. During this period, no new package uploads are made except to fix critical bugs or to provide documentation updates. During the freeze, bugs are squashed to 'stabilize' the release to make the new 'stable'. Stretch started to freeze in Nov 2016 and entered full freeze on 5 Feb 2017. Also ask me about <slushy>, <stretch freeze>.
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1444 [14:00:41] <hmz365> BIOS does not ban hard drive option, how do I get banned in linuxo system hard drive?
1445 [14:00:43] <TwistedFate> themill, so when can i hope to see mesa 17 in testing? :S
1446 [14:01:11] <themill> after stretch releases
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1453 [14:06:03] <TwistedFate> thanks
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1539 [14:51:33] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
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1549 [14:54:41] <xaa> hi, dpkg --list print a detailled table list of packages installed. Is it possible to display the Candidate version in a new col as well ?
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1558 [15:02:15] <TomTomTo1> xaa: dpkg doesn't know about the candidate. apt is the tool for working with repositories. I wouldn't know a way except for parsing the apt-cache policy output for every package in the list.
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1586 [15:09:52] <xaa> ok. thank you TomTomTo1
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1642 [15:33:21] <adan> whois gmh
1643 [15:33:35] <gmh> :P
1644 [15:33:36] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
1645 [15:33:45] <mzs114> hello ychaouche
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1647 [15:33:56] <ychaouche> Please I would like to disable IPv6 protocol but I can't find /etc/modprobe.d/aliases file ?
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1649 [15:34:17] <adan> sorry i am a new guy ,,,i just trying to use irssi
1650 [15:34:20] <ychaouche> should I create it ?
1651 [15:34:27] <adan> @gmh
1652 [15:34:36] <Dagger> ychaouche: you can create files yourself, but a) v6 isn't a module in current debian, b) don't disable v6
1653 [15:34:36] <gmh> ychaouche: replaced-url
1654 [15:34:43] <Dagger> if you have some problem with v6, then fix the problem
1655 [15:35:02] <ychaouche> Dagger: we don't have any network device that supports v6 in our infrastructure
1656 [15:35:11] <mzs114> adan: remember all irc commands start with a /
1657 [15:35:22] <Dagger> we're in 2017, we're way past the point where disabling it is the right workaround for problems
1658 [15:35:40] <adan> mzs114: thx
1659 [15:35:51] <ychaouche> Dagger: the link you gave me doesn't load
1660 [15:36:32] <mzs114> ychaouche: I tried, it opens..
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1662 [15:37:15] <TimurTheLame> ychaouche, I personally do the method #2 replaced-url
1663 [15:37:40] <TimurTheLame> Oh wait, it's the same thing as the debian wiki
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1666 [15:37:48] <Dagger> even if you have no v6, you still shouldn't be disabling it. you should be /deploying/ it (and disabling it is going to make it harder to deploy)
1667 [15:38:18] <ychaouche> Dagger: I didn't succeed in convincing the network team... :(
1668 [15:38:40] <Penix> ychaouche: your network team should be sacked
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1670 [15:38:50] <missmbob> there's no need to disable it. just dont configure it. it's not like having support for it hurts you
1671 [15:38:55] <Penix> ychaouche: if you're not using v6, disabling it will not make a difference
1672 [15:39:12] <dvs> ychaouche, there will come a point where they cannot reach new web sites.
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1675 [15:39:20] <ychaouche> Penix: it will because debian is trying IPv6 addresses and it can't reach them.
1676 [15:39:38] <ychaouche> Penix: for eg. when installaing packets with apt-get
1677 [15:39:50] <Penix> ychaouche: no
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1679 [15:40:09] <ychaouche> Penix: that's what just happened to me
1680 [15:40:20] <Dagger> how do you know apt-get's trying v6? because it prints some very misleading error messages
1681 [15:40:21] <Penix> ychaouche: you're doing something wrong then
1682 [15:40:38] <ychaouche> Penix: can you help in identifying what that would be ?
1683 [15:40:41] * ychaouche prepares a paste
1684 [15:41:05] <ychaouche> Penix: see : replaced-url
1685 [15:41:18] <ychaouche> Dagger: see paste
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1687 [15:41:26] <Dagger> yeah, that's the misleading error message
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1689 [15:41:33] <Dagger> what does `wget replaced-url
1690 [15:41:58] <ychaouche> Dagger: the second time the same command worked, but with ipv4, and I didn't change anything
1691 [15:42:09] <ychaouche> it seems it's using ipv4 and ipv6 interchangibly
1692 [15:42:11] <Dagger> then your v4 was temporarily broken
1693 [15:42:18] <Penix> ychaouche: what kind of addresses are assigned to your interfaces?
1694 [15:42:42] <TimurTheLame> ychaouche, maaaan, just disable ipv6 :P
1695 [15:42:47] <Dagger> if you have no v6 address, then apt-get (and all other programs) will try v4 first, and if it fails then they'll try v6
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1697 [15:43:03] <Dagger> apt-get only prints the last failure
1698 [15:43:07] <ychaouche> replaced-url
1699 [15:43:14] <ychaouche> Dagger: wget ^
1700 [15:43:34] <ychaouche> Penix: 10.10.10.19 on one interface, the other is loopback, that's it.
1701 [15:44:16] <ychaouche> could it be the DNS that's giving me Ipv6 addresses ?
1702 [15:44:20] <TimurTheLame> ychaouche, you're not going to save the world by having ipv6 enabled on your machines when most people don't use it
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1705 [15:44:56] <Dagger> ...wait, no v4 addresses at all?
1706 [15:45:06] <Dagger> ychaouche: what does `getent ahosts security.debian.org` give? in particular, does it always give the same output?
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1708 [15:46:06] <ychaouche> replaced-url
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1710 [15:46:23] <Dagger> TimurTheLame: that's exactly how you're going to save it. how are the first 50% of people going to enable v6 if they can't do it before the other 50%?
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1713 [15:46:40] <Dagger> TimurTheLame: also the US has 30% of people using v6, which is still dire but is hardly ignorable
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1715 [15:46:57] <TimurTheLame> Dagger, you're not practicable, bro
1716 [15:47:21] <TimurTheLame> But meh
1717 [15:47:22] <Dagger> ychaouche: okay, so v4 *is* being tried first. it's possible your DNS is unreliable and failing to return A records sometimes
1718 [15:47:38] <mzs114> hey Dagger, its good what you mention, but sometimes in the IT depts, esp of "enterprise" ones are hard to work with
1719 [15:47:48] <mzs114> so we have to skip such things sometimes
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1722 [15:48:13] <mzs114> but its good that you push for v6 proliferation..
1723 [15:49:15] <Penix> it's not really a matter of promoting v6 use. it's a matter of gracefully falling back to v4, as one would expect
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1737 [15:53:46] <BluesKaj> I thought it IPv6 is just a matter of time til it's mandatory, once the IPv4 model runs out of manageable IP addresses
1738 [15:54:08] <dvs> BluesKaj, exactly
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1740 [15:54:31] <BluesKaj> .
1741 [15:54:49] <BluesKaj> so promotion isn't necessary
1742 [15:55:13] <sonOfRa> I dunno, I frequently disable my ipv6 (in fact I just did half an hour ago) because my ISP keeps giving me prefixes that *don't work*
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1745 [15:55:44] <sonOfRa> So I get a valid IPv6 address, I can connect to other hosts within my home network over IPv6, but not to hosts outside of my network.
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1747 [15:56:08] <BluesKaj> sonOfRa, obviously your ISP doesn't support IPv6
1748 [15:56:32] <dvs> change the router to do a ipv6 to 4 mapping
1749 [15:56:56] <Dagger> sonOfRa: it'd be better to fix the broken shit
1750 [15:56:59] <sonOfRa> BluesKaj: they do support IPv6. The next time I get a prefix, I'll get a working one
1751 [15:57:04] <jhutchins> sonOfRa: I have IPV6 on google fiber. Ping latency is about 10x what IPV4 is.
1752 [15:57:14] <sonOfRa> Dagger: it's not on my end. I can't fix it.
1753 [15:57:22] <Dagger> but if it's really on the ISP end, and the ISP really do refuse to fix it, then sure. not much you can do other than disable it on your end
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1755 [15:57:44] <Dagger> you could switch to a less shit ISP though
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1757 [15:58:20] <Digz> I have AT&T Gigapower.... and AT&T's implementation of IPv6 is so horrendous I disabled it.
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1759 [15:58:37] <BluesKaj> sonOfRa they might "say" IPv6 is supported, buit obviously it's not everywhere on their network
1760 [15:58:42] <sonOfRa> Only two ISPs available where I live, the other one is even worse (instead of non-working IPv6, you get empty bandwidth promises, because they don't peer with anyone)
1761 [15:58:52] <chomwitt> i load changes to my iptables with /etc/init.d/networking reload . is this the recommended way ?
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1763 [15:59:00] <Digz> I just ordered static IP's though and that is done through cascaded routing so I can stop using their DMZPlus setup....
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1766 [15:59:17] <jhutchins> chomwitt: Does it work for you?
1767 [15:59:22] <sonOfRa> "Oh yes you have 200MBit VDSL via vectoring, but if you want to watch a 5MBit video stream from twitch or youtube in the evening, well, that's tough luck"
1768 [15:59:54] <sonOfRa> I actually switched away from them because they cancelled peering to my server hoster, and I was unable to complete my daily incremental backups
1769 [16:00:08] <sonOfRa> Because one increment was larger than the daily throughput to that server hoster.
1770 [16:00:29] <mzs114> y'all lucky to have IPv6 ISPs, here in India we are yet to find one which supplies this to residential areas..
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1773 [16:02:12] <jhutchins> mzs114: There are a lot of aspects of ipv6 that just don't work yet. Many things have yet to be implemented.
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1775 [16:02:29] <Dagger> almost one fifth of India has v6, so there should be somebody doing v6 over there
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1777 [16:02:37] <Dagger> although it might be a mobile provider or somesuch
1778 [16:02:44] <jhutchins> mzs114: iirc NameVhost among them.
1779 [16:03:07] <chomwitt> jhutchins: yep!
1780 [16:03:21] <mzs114> Dagger: yeah that is why I mentioned residential areas
1781 [16:04:04] <chomwitt> but with all that fuzz about systemd i wonder if my method will or is depracated..
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1783 [16:04:48] <mzs114> jhutchins: I have not come across NameVhost
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1785 [16:04:59] <mzs114> is that an ISP?
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1788 [16:06:36] <missmbob> chomwitt: there's the package iptables-persistent or you can use iptables-reload
1789 [16:06:43] <jhutchins> mzs114: That is the Apache function that allows multiple host names on the same IP and same Apache instance.
1790 [16:06:51] <chomwitt> missmbob: thanks!
1791 [16:07:13] <jhutchins> chomwitt: If the script works for you, that's as good as anything.
1792 [16:07:35] <mzs114> jhutchins: ah I see.. I confused this with "bluehost"
1793 [16:08:05] <mzs114> I wonder what would be the status with Lighttpd(my fav), or Nginx
1794 [16:08:10] <Dagger> ...yeah, I'm fairly sure apache works just fine with v6
1795 [16:08:33] <Dagger> I'm not literally using the word "namevhost" in my config but I'm hosting multiple sites on a single v6 address and it works
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1798 [16:09:06] <chomwitt> jhutchins: /etc/init.d/networking reload seem more general ,( i mean a lot of things may happen i guess) but if iptables-reload works seems more 'targeted'
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1808 [16:15:12] <jhutchins> chomwitt: I've used a couple of options: for my main use I had a script that was called by rc.local; I also used shorewall for a while because of the ease of adding blocked addresses (it was serious overkill).
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1810 [16:16:01] <jhutchins> chomwitt: If you're setting it up under the networking init script, you probably already have a save-restore mechanism installed, and you could call that directly.
1811 [16:16:17] <jhutchins> chomwitt: You might see where the networking startup is getting/storing the rules.
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1816 [16:20:02] <chomwitt> missmbob : there is not iptables-reload (searched with apt-file search iptables-reload)
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1819 [16:20:31] <chomwitt> missmbob : and i have neither an /etc/init.d/iptables script
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1821 [16:21:24] <chomwitt> jhutchins: i'm tottally noob to iptables :-)
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1823 [16:22:07] <chomwitt> s/noob/newbie :-)
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1835 [16:27:17] <abff> my laptop has two video cards, an nvidia and an integrated intel chip. I know that currently on my system X11 only loads the intel driver. If I config xorg to load nouveau, should I also remove instructions to load the intel driver
1836 [16:27:22] <abff> ?**
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1841 [16:31:10] <jhutchins> chomwitt: Didn't you say you were making changes to them? Where?
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1848 [16:33:38] <missmbob> chomwitt: it's not a package
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1855 [16:35:50] <mender27> I have severe problems with a fresh install of Debian Testing/Stretch. I'm trying to install/build the ZFS module, but it hangs really long and then fails on the configure stage.
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1858 [16:36:30] <mender27> Did the same thing just yesterday and did not have such issues :/.
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1860 [16:36:50] <BluesKaj> mender27 ZXS for storage on a different drive?
1861 [16:36:59] <BluesKaj> ZFS rather
1862 [16:37:21] <mender27> BluesKaj, yes, I was planning to move some directories there, since it's a lot easier to set up and use then mdadm + lvm
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1867 [16:39:46] <mender27> BluesKaj,somehow it worked after a long while, but I'm still sort of suspicious
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1870 [16:40:24] <BluesKaj> mender27, perhaps you get a quicker response in the #zfs chat
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1874 [16:40:50] <chomwitt> jhutchins: i simply add rules with the iptables command and i saved them to /etc/iptables-up.rules
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1878 [16:42:15] <mender27> BluesKaj, I feel my problem "magically" solved itself. In case something still wrong, I'll try there. Thanks!
1879 [16:42:50] <hiya> ya> So that you know how to do it?
1880 [16:42:50] <hiya> <coinkeeper> ive just done that
1881 [16:42:50] <hiya> <hiya> ok ok
1882 [16:42:51] <hiya> <coinkeeper> adding chans now
1883 [16:42:51] <hiya> <coinkeeper> right - im getting somewhere, all I need to know now is how do I attach my client to the bnc?
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1886 [16:43:03] <BluesKaj> mender27, ok, good luck
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1888 [16:43:39] <chomwitt> missmbob: i found iptables-apply . is that the one u mean?
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1890 [16:44:37] <missmbob> chomwitt: /sbin/iptables-restore (root) is in the iptables package which i assume you have installed. you can read about it in the iptables section on debian's wiki
1891 [16:44:42] <mender27> BluesKaj, somewhat miss the integration I had in FreeBSD, but oh well :P. Is it true that ZFS is coming as an option to Stable/Stretch later this year?
1892 [16:45:13] <hiya> Error unlocking /dev/sdc: Command-line `cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdc luks-c624f927-03a9-4fa0-bcfe-1c0f0cdade4a ' exited with non-zero exit status 5: Device luks-c624f927-03a9-4fa0-bcfe-1c0f0cdade4a already exists.
1893 [16:45:24] <hiya> I am getting this error when unlocking a disk with FDE
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1896 [16:46:31] <mender27> BluesKaj, everything is okay now. Thanks again for help!
1897 [16:46:48] <BluesKaj> mender27, I don't know, I thought ZFS was for outboard storage disks
1898 [16:47:22] <mender27> BluesKaj, you can mount regular system partitions on it, because the zfs kernel module handles mounting also :).
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1902 [16:48:17] <BluesKaj> mender27, did you install OS to it , I thought it was difficult to do?
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1904 [16:49:05] <mender27> BluesKaj, it's integrated in FreeBSD and Solaris, but for Linux distros some tricks are needed, true. I'm only moving stuff from /var and /usr to it to save my system SSD a bit.
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1906 [16:49:38] <BluesKaj> mender27, ok understood'
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1908 [16:50:30] <BluesKaj> mender27, is your ssd recent vintage?
1909 [16:51:02] <mender27> BluesKaj, not really, it came with the workstation some 5 years ago.
1910 [16:51:38] <mender27> BluesKaj, but it might be older, since it was a refurbished HP Compaq Z200 workstation.
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1912 [16:53:11] <BluesKaj> mender27, good to know that ssds last that long. I instaklled a samaung evo 250GB last yr ...heard some \worriesome stories about trim problems with it.
1913 [16:53:42] <mender27> BluesKaj, maybe it's hardware specific? This is an Intel ssd.
1914 [16:54:14] <mender27> BluesKaj, I used UFS2 with TRIM or ext4 on it so hard to compare I guess.
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1917 [16:54:25] <BluesKaj> yes, I believe it is
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1920 [16:56:20] <mender27> Hmmm....are .debs cached in /var/cache or someplace else?
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1922 [16:56:36] <mender27> ah, my bad, found it
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1924 [16:58:37] <BluesKaj> nothing bad about finding it :-)
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1926 [16:59:05] <mender27> It's just so basic I should've known, that's all :).
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1931 [17:00:30] <mender27> Alright, will be back somewhat later. See you!
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1944 [17:05:23] <superKiller> Hello, i have a usb wireless adapter that works fine on ubuntu 16.04 but does not get detected on debian. I assumed it would work since ubuntu is based on debian
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1952 [17:07:07] <Rhuarc> 3
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1955 [17:07:37] <superKiller> any ideas ?
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1965 [17:09:04] <GNU\colossus> superKiller, chances are it needs either a more recent Kernel image to be supported, or (non-free) firmware installed that Debian doesn't have in its default installation
1966 [17:09:37] <GNU\colossus> which versions of Ubuntu and Debian have you tried the stick with?
1967 [17:09:38] <missmbob> !firmware iso
1968 [17:09:39] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from replaced-url
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1985 [17:12:07] <superKiller> GNU\colossus: thank you for responding. I use ubuntu 16.04 LTS, the wifi adapter is a pretty cheap and basic one. here --> replaced-url
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1991 [17:12:51] <GNU\colossus> superKiller, the Ubuntu release you use comes with linux 4.4, while Debian 8 installs linux 3.16 by default
1992 [17:13:17] <GNU\colossus> it's possible that this difference is enough to explain why it doesn't work on Debian
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1995 [17:13:43] <missmbob> it's probably both. firmware and kernel. get them both from jessie-backports
1996 [17:13:45] <GNU\colossus> do you have Debian booted up on a machine where you can plug it in?
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1998 [17:15:09] <superKiller> GNU\colossus: No, not right now.
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2000 [17:16:12] <superKiller> I actually should have asked when I was near a machine with debian. But, what do you suggest, I obtain the debian version from where ? One that would support it. I'm pretty new to linux
2001 [17:16:27] <GNU\colossus> !backports
2002 [17:16:27] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
2003 [17:16:39] <GNU\colossus> !debian-backports
2004 [17:16:40] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
2005 [17:16:54] <GNU\colossus> superKiller, from there ^, you can install Linux 4.9 for Jessie
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2007 [17:17:41] <superKiller> GNU\colossus: a problem is that I can't connect to the internet from my debian machine due to lack of other network adapters, my laptop's onboard wifi isnt supported either. So I cant download off the net on debian
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2009 [17:17:43] <GNU\colossus> you can then boot that kernel, and observe the debug ringbuffer what it has to say when you plug the wifi dongle in by running `sudo dmesg`
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2012 [17:18:13] <GNU\colossus> ah. I see. well, you can download the backports kernel image and all its deps and install it by hand
2013 [17:18:16] <GNU\colossus> BUT
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2015 [17:18:27] <GNU\colossus> since this is going to be a laptop installation
2016 [17:18:33] <cerealkill3r> Hey guys, what would be a good way to copy data from a corrupted filesystem on another machine? Would a live usb work?
2017 [17:18:35] <GNU\colossus> you might just wanna try installing the stretch release
2018 [17:18:45] <GNU\colossus> (even though it's formally still testing)
2019 [17:19:10] <GNU\colossus> superKiller, what built-in wifi does your laptop have?
2020 [17:19:57] <missmbob> superKiller: this is the stretch iso with firmware included. should work. replaced-url
2021 [17:20:13] <GNU\colossus> yup, that's your best shot
2022 [17:20:50] <jhutchins> cerealkill3r: clonezilla
2023 [17:20:57] <GNU\colossus> cerealkill3r, you can try grml in forensic mode
2024 [17:21:07] <GNU\colossus> that will make sure not to touch any filesystems by itself
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2028 [17:21:30] <GNU\colossus> make a complete copy of the filesystem's underlying block device using ddrescue, and then work on that snapshot copy
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2030 [17:22:05] <superKiller> GNU\colossus: replaced-url
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2032 [17:22:35] <superKiller> it did work with my onboard wifi, but 16.04 doesnt. could it be that mine has been deprecated or is no longer supported ?
2033 [17:23:14] <GNU\colossus> superKiller, that seems unlikely.
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2035 [17:23:27] <GNU\colossus> you should try the stretch installer as suggested above
2036 [17:23:57] <missmbob> not any stretch installer. that *exact* one
2037 [17:24:50] <missmbob> the regular stretch installer wont support firmware
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2039 [17:25:01] <missmbob> include*
2040 [17:25:28] <superKiller> missmbob: so i would need additional files ?
2041 [17:25:48] <missmbob> superKiller: different iso entirely
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2044 [17:26:45] <missmbob> superKiller: but yes, with regular you'll need more files/additional work
2045 [17:26:51] <superKiller> missmbob: right... so, how can i tell which one? because the most straightforward seem to be these -> replaced-url
2046 [17:27:07] <missmbob> superKiller: the one i already linked you to. scroll up
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2049 [17:27:56] <superKiller> missmbob: yes the 331 mb file ?
2050 [17:27:59] <BluesKaj> superKiller, what's your wifi chip?
2051 [17:28:58] <missmbob> superKiller: yes. replaced-url
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2053 [17:30:48] <GNU\colossus> BluesKaj, _probably_ some intel wireless
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2055 [17:31:03] <jhutchins> GNU\colossus: lspci -nn
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2058 [17:31:25] <GNU\colossus> jhutchins, it's not my hardware this chat is about :)
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2064 [17:32:19] <jhutchins> GNU\colossus: Ah, superKiller's. Still.
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2068 [17:33:36] <superKiller> BluesKaj: alright. Its broadcom corps bcm43142
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2072 [17:35:15] <BluesKaj> superKiller, aha, i had probs with my BCM 4313 on stretch, network manager gets caught in a loop of connecting and disconnecting asking for the essid pw constantly
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2075 [17:36:16] <superKiller> BluesKaj: What would be a solution to this if any ?
2076 [17:36:17] <GNU\colossus> ugh, Broadcom! superKiller, do you happen to know if the Dell BIOS/Firmware allows for a change of the miniPCIe-adapter in the laptop?
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2078 [17:36:34] <BluesKaj> so installing stretch probly won't solve your problem
2079 [17:36:53] <GNU\colossus> if it does, you should get something atheros-based, install that, and be done with wifi troubles forever.
2080 [17:37:22] <superKiller> GNU\colossus: I wish I did. Sorry, no i don't know.
2081 [17:37:47] <BluesKaj> superKiller, unfortunately I couldn't find a fix so i reinstalled kubuntu 14.04.4 LTS
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2083 [17:38:34] <BluesKaj> debian stretch wifi is buggy
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2086 [17:38:56] <BluesKaj> on some chips/drivers
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2089 [17:39:31] <superKiller> BluesKaj: so what GNU\colossus said about a chang of miniPCIe-adapter, how hard would it be for someone like me who doesnt know that ?
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2093 [17:40:28] <BluesKaj> superKiller, I have no idea , sorry
2094 [17:40:35] <Papillon> If it has an access panel it should be fairly easy, if it doesn't fairly hard (assuming laptop)
2095 [17:40:47] <superKiller> Papillon: I do have a laptop
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2098 [17:41:21] <superKiller> BluesKaj: ah thats okay. i am bummed though. i was excited to leave windows once and for all !
2099 [17:41:25] <Papillon> the user guide should have instructions on how to do it, look on the bottom for panels held by screws
2100 [17:41:38] <Papillon> if it has a flat bottom with no screws you're out of luck
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2102 [17:42:40] <superKiller> Papillon: In that case I would have to get a new wifi adapter as one of the possible options right ?
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2109 [17:43:51] <BluesKaj> superKiller, debian -jessie woked fine with BCM4313 btw
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2111 [17:44:24] <superKiller> BluesKaj: mine is bcm 43142 if that makes any difference.
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2114 [17:44:46] <BluesKaj> superKiller, you have to do a bit googling to find the right tutorial and suggested driver
2115 [17:46:09] <BluesKaj> superKiller, replaced-url
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2117 [17:47:18] <BluesKaj> oops , superKiller wrong page, hang on
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2120 [17:48:21] <jhutchins> !bcm43132
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2122 [17:48:33] <BluesKaj> superKiller, replaced-url
2123 [17:48:35] <superKiller> BluesKaj: I was looking at the same page, and my pci id '14e4: 4365'
2124 [17:48:53] <jhutchins> ,pciid 14e4:4365
2125 [17:48:54] <judd> [14e4:4365] is 'BCM43142 802.11b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Limited' with no known kernel module in jessie or in sid. See also replaced-url
2126 [17:49:17] <superKiller> jhutchins: not supported ? :/
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2128 [17:49:46] <jhutchins> superKiller: Not in judd's database rather.
2129 [17:50:16] <BluesKaj> superKiller, I repeat replaced-url
2130 [17:50:40] <superKiller> BluesKaj: yes , and that has led me here : replaced-url
2131 [17:50:50] <superKiller> bcm 43142 is listed here
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2133 [17:51:30] <BluesKaj> yes install dkms ,and the tools package
2134 [17:52:14] <BluesKaj> gotta go, stuff to do for bit ...BBL
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2136 [17:52:56] <superKiller> BluesKaj: alright. Thanks !
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2139 [17:53:10] <jhutchins> superKiller: It's supported via dkms, dynamic kernel build system. Built from source.
2140 [17:53:31] <jhutchins> superKiller: Follow the instructions BluesKaj linked.
2141 [17:53:31] <missmbob> also need kernel headers
2142 [17:53:38] <superKiller> jhutchins: Getting the .deb file wouldnt be enough ?
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2144 [17:54:23] <jhutchins> superKiller: No, read the page through and follow the directions. You are actually going to download the source and build the module from source. dkms does most of the work for you.
2145 [17:54:24] <emx> hi. i am considering to set up a nas. there are some ready to use builds but i'm not sure if some have limitations (such as OMV requiring to use the whole disk as partition). any experiences?
2146 [17:54:45] <jhutchins> !freenas
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2148 [17:54:52] <jhutchins> Really?
2149 [17:54:54] *** Joins: Walakea (~Icedove@replaced-ip )
2150 [17:54:57] <Papillon> open media vault
2151 [17:55:15] <jhutchins> dpkg: cookie
2152 [17:55:17] * dpkg pulls out the cookie jar and finds mpilam... LAM-MPI, replaced-url
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2155 [17:56:01] <superKiller> jhutchins: alright . though like i said, i cant do it on the machine as it has debian installed. the guide involves downloading in the target machine.
2156 [17:56:21] <missmbob> download all packages to usb then dpkg -i foo.deb
2157 [17:56:30] <missmbob> again, including kernel headers
2158 [17:56:42] <jhutchins> emx: replaced-url
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2160 [17:57:02] <jhutchins> superKiller: You can't get a wired connection?
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2169 [17:58:02] <superKiller> jhutchins: not with my laptop. but i will do the download to usb and then manual install.
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2171 [17:58:37] <missmbob> if it gives you errors building pastebin them before coming back
2172 [17:59:00] <abff> don't forget a folder full of your favourite wifi card drivers superKiller ;)
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2174 [18:00:35] <superKiller> abff: alright
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2179 [18:02:20] <namoamitabuddha> I wonder whether in the default settings, does Debian mount /tmp as a tmpfs?
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2181 [18:02:32] <Papillon> probably not
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2187 [18:03:44] <Papillon> tmpfs is a ramdisk
2188 [18:04:01] <missmbob> by default debian doesnt separate /tmp so it's whatever / is (ext4 default)
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2190 [18:04:41] <Papillon> but a ramdisk wouldn't be a great fit for /tmp
2191 [18:04:45] <somiaj> there is a systemd unit file you can enable to make /tmp a tmpfs file system.
2192 [18:04:47] <emx> jhutchins, Papillon a pretty simple choice considering that only openmediavault of those two supports arm. thanks.
2193 [18:04:51] <somiaj> Papillon: sure, just not by default.
2194 [18:05:06] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, I know systemctl enable tmp.mount
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2197 [18:05:31] <namoamitabuddha> I want to know whether I will encrypt /tmp
2198 [18:05:41] <namoamitabuddha> whether it's a good idea
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2200 [18:05:54] <missmbob> encryption with guided partitioning does
2201 [18:05:55] <namoamitabuddha> Now no partition is encrypted. I want to encrypt /home
2202 [18:06:08] <somiaj> hmm, seems tmp.mount isn't in stretch, wonder what is the prefered way to do that in stretch.
2203 [18:06:16] <Papillon> if you don't want people to read your temp files encrypt it
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2205 [18:06:32] <namoamitabuddha> Then I need to create a new partition for /tmp
2206 [18:06:46] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, I know this, but I don't know whether it's usually done for personal usage.
2207 [18:07:04] <missmbob> yes. guided is "usual" and it does
2208 [18:07:23] <namoamitabuddha> I didn't apply guided.
2209 [18:07:45] <namoamitabuddha> I'm just learning how to encrypt partitions.
2210 [18:08:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1685
2211 [18:08:34] <Papillon> if your cpu has the whatchamacallit instruction the performance penalty should be greatly reduced
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2213 [18:08:38] <Papillon> aes instruction?
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2218 [18:08:53] <namoamitabuddha> -c aes-xts-plain64 -s 512
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2221 [18:09:18] <hicks_> namoamitabuddha: are you wanting to do it all manually? if not just select full disk encryption during install and let it encrypt everything
2222 [18:09:42] <namoamitabuddha> Sorry, it's an already installed system.
2223 [18:09:52] <hicks_> for additional partitions that you want to handle manually, use cryptsetup and luks, then you can mount/open them via your regular file manager
2224 [18:10:11] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, just reading stuff about dm-crypt
2225 [18:10:19] <hicks_> for an installed system I don't believe there's a way to upgrade on the fly. You'd have to backup all data on the partition, remake it encrypted and restore
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2227 [18:10:37] <namoamitabuddha> I don't want to encrypt everything.
2228 [18:10:40] <namoamitabuddha> Only the /home
2229 [18:10:44] <hicks_> read about cryptsetup and luks, there's little need to use dm-crypt directly really.
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2231 [18:11:06] <namoamitabuddha> I'm reading this: replaced-url
2232 [18:11:39] <hicks_> bear in mind if you only do home, anything in swap/tmp/var/etc will be freely accessable
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2236 [18:12:09] <namoamitabuddha> I know that. I wonder whether it's a good idea to do for tmp and swap.
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2238 [18:12:20] <namoamitabuddha> Seems that it's recommended in the wiki page.
2239 [18:12:22] <hicks_> do you have a reason for not just doing the lot?
2240 [18:12:34] <namoamitabuddha> Performance
2241 [18:12:44] <hicks_> does your cpu have encryption support?
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2248 [18:14:20] <namoamitabuddha> aes is shown in /proc/cpuinfo
2249 [18:14:44] <hicks_> if it's a modern system, the overhead will be pretty tiny that you likely won't notice
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2251 [18:16:02] <namoamitabuddha> Thanks. I don't know what's the danger of exposing /var; logs are there
2252 [18:16:06] <hicks_> also when doing just /home you have to consider at which point do you enter your password to unlock the key? You may have to roll your own script to prompt for that at some stage during boot etc
2253 [18:16:13] <missmbob> i have an i5 and dont notice with full encryption
2254 [18:16:16] <hicks_> or login as root then unlock it
2255 [18:16:29] <namoamitabuddha> unlock while booting
2256 [18:16:34] <hicks_> either way, it's less convenient imo that full disk, which will prompt during pre-auth
2257 [18:16:40] <hicks_> *than
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2266 [18:20:00] <namoamitabuddha> For the moment, I think /home is the most important one to encrypt.
2267 [18:20:08] <namoamitabuddha> personal data, etc
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2271 [18:20:58] <hicks_> yeah, although I wouldn't get too hung up on performance without trying it first. You'll likley not see any difference between booting off a fully encrypted system to a non.
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2274 [18:22:01] <namoamitabuddha> I can imagine, because my smartphone is encrypted without experiencing any performance difference.
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2276 [18:22:21] <hicks_> if you are going to do it manually though, focus on using luks and ensure you have good backups first, mistakes happen :)
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2279 [18:22:57] <Papillon> there are different ways of doing storage encryption. For instance you can buy storage drives that encrypt themselves
2280 [18:23:12] <namoamitabuddha> what kind of mistakes?
2281 [18:23:17] <namoamitabuddha> shred the wrong partition?
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2283 [18:23:23] <Papillon> that's actually probably what smartphones do because it's more power efficient
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2285 [18:23:42] <jhutchins> somiaj: stretch is probably using tmpfs in ram.
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2287 [18:25:06] <somiaj> jhutchins: and? I guess I don't follow, I just am not seeing how to enable /tmp as tmpfs in stretch, maybe it went back to using /etc/default
2288 [18:25:22] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: I think it's a matter of deciding what you want to hide, and from whom.
2289 [18:25:39] <somiaj> nope /etc/default/tmpfs still says file ignored when using systemd.
2290 [18:25:52] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: We frequently see people here who have either lost their encryption key or have a corrupt encryption system.
2291 [18:26:03] <Papillon> why would anyone want a tmpfs /tmp? Why make /tmp a ramdisk?
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2293 [18:26:16] <jhutchins> somiaj: So you don't have /tmp at all?
2294 [18:26:21] <namoamitabuddha> Corrupt?
2295 [18:26:31] <jhutchins> Papillon: clears automatically at boot.
2296 [18:26:36] <hicks_> yeah and even when using full disk encryption there are limits to the protection. It all depends on your scenario
2297 [18:26:41] <jhutchins> Papillon: Among other things.
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2300 [18:26:56] <Papillon> presumably there are other ways of doing that
2301 [18:26:59] <hicks_> namoamitabuddha: There's occasions the luks header can be damaged by some things
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2303 [18:27:18] <hicks_> I've not seen it myself, but it's worth having a backup of that plus your data just to be safe.
2304 [18:27:19] <somiaj> jhutchins: I do, what I'm not seeing is how to nicely make /tmp use tmpfs without adding it to /etc/fstab, in jessie it was enable the tmp.mount unit, in sysvinit it was /etc/default/tmpfs.
2305 [18:27:34] <somiaj> jhutchins: not that I use that, just courious as why tmp.mount was moved
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2307 [18:28:49] <Papillon> Add this to /etc/rc.d/rc.local_shutdown/usr/bin/find /tmp -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -print0 | xargs -0r /bin/rm -rf
2308 [18:28:55] <Papillon> although that probably needs sysvinit
2309 [18:28:56] <namoamitabuddha> hicks_, The backup is saved during the encryption process?
2310 [18:28:59] <jhutchins> Papillon: Apparently speed and the ability to share memory dynamically.
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2313 [18:29:53] <Papillon> well tmpfs can use swap space iirc
2314 [18:30:05] <jhutchins> Papillon: Right.
2315 [18:30:21] <Papillon> but generally you wouldn't want to use tmpfs for /tmp, and there are other was of clearing /tmp at shutdown
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2318 [18:30:31] <somiaj> Papillon: if one has / mounted read only, having /tmp as tmpfs over a seperate partition can also be useful.
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2320 [18:30:34] <jhutchins> I've had one system run out of space in /tmp. IIRC transcoding video or some such.
2321 [18:30:52] <Papillon> or you could just mount /tmp as rw
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2323 [18:31:02] <jhutchins> Papillon: Clearing is supposed to alrady be built in, I think at boot rather than shutdown.
2324 [18:31:14] <Papillon> that would be strange
2325 [18:31:30] <Papillon> but if you're worried about space the last thing you want to do is make it tmpfs
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2327 [18:31:56] <hicks_> namoamitabuddha: see replaced-url
2328 [18:32:10] <jhutchins> Papillon: Unless you have plenty of ram. Yes, I think that's why I ran out of space. Years ago.
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2330 [18:32:29] <Papillon> even if you have plenty of ram
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2332 [18:33:02] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: I believe the backup is saved when you make the backup.
2333 [18:33:27] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: Obviously, you want the unencrypted backup on something that can be secured physically.
2334 [18:34:53] <namoamitabuddha> I don't quite understand. Maybe I'm not that scrupulous. But since we cannot do the encryption on the fly, we always create an encrypted partition, and then copy the data to the encrypted partition, and do the mount setups.
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2336 [18:35:14] <namoamitabuddha> I don't see any further backups are strictly necessary.
2337 [18:35:44] <namoamitabuddha> But yes, luks headers are important
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2339 [18:35:48] <hicks_> namoamitabuddha: what happens when a util writes data by mistake to the start of that partition and your luks header is now invalid? That header contains your encryption key so you now cannot access your data.
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2341 [18:36:03] <hicks_> apparently that has been known to happen and often it hits keyslot 0
2342 [18:36:23] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, but that's a different concept from backup for existing data
2343 [18:36:27] <Papillon> I was actually thinking about making a hybrid ramdisk filesystem specifically for /tmp, and maybe /etc but the point would simply be to make disk writes less frequent by storing them in ram. So, for instance, while there was a lot of free ram, it may only write to disk, say, once an hour
2344 [18:36:55] <hicks_> well, for the data itself, anything could happen that prevents you mounting the partition, from a corrption to forgetting your password to hdd failure
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2347 [18:38:32] <hicks_> having good backups is just worth doing even before you add encryption to the mix.
2348 [18:38:33] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: Encryption, like LVM, is one more thing that can go wrong.
2349 [18:38:46] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: Nobody ever sees the need for further backups until they loose their data.
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2351 [18:39:31] <jhutchins> iirc just this week we had a guy who had an encrypted partition, managed by a key that was a different partition - which got deleted.
2352 [18:40:01] <jhutchins> (Not LUKS)
2353 [18:40:06] <namoamitabuddha> What I wanted to say is that, the origin data is already a kind of "backup" because during the encryption setup, morally the data aren't touched, unless I mistakenly shred it or doing something like this, but this process has nothing to do with encryption.
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2355 [18:40:40] <namoamitabuddha> it's a potential danger in any process like partitioning, tec
2356 [18:40:42] <namoamitabuddha> etc
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2358 [18:41:06] <hicks_> that's part of the, mistakes happen, comment earlier :)
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2360 [18:41:42] <hicks_> if you have a copy that's on another machine or offline, the number of mistakes resulting in total loss go down.
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2362 [18:41:59] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: I can't really tell, but it sounds like you may already have an unencrypted copy of the data. If so, good. If you're counting the data-to-be-encrypted, no.
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2364 [18:42:14] <hicks_> If your only copy is on the partition you're copying off of and onto the encrypted partition, there is still a risk of a typo blowing that away
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2366 [18:42:57] <jhutchins> I saw an international fraternity loose 14 years of email correspondence.
2367 [18:43:02] <hicks_> but yes, in that case the risk is not really any different to normally copying data around
2368 [18:43:03] <namoamitabuddha> I know, but encryption here, it's not more dangerous than any other kind of process related to partitions.
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2372 [18:43:40] <hicks_> once you've copied the data over though, you'd want to shred the old unencrypted data, at which point you're back to needing some kind of other backup.
2373 [18:43:41] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: I would argue it is, because you're deliberately creating conditions where the data will be inaccessible - that's the point.
2374 [18:44:24] <jhutchins> hicks_: Well, I would just store it on a securable device - an external drive in a safe deposit box or whatever variant meets your needs.
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2376 [18:44:51] <jhutchins> hicks_: Obviously if the data is simply on another partition then yes, but make the backup FIRST, then shred.
2377 [18:44:57] <hicks_> yeah, lots of options, I was more addressing that if you copy from say sdc1 to sdd1 and don't remove the disk after
2378 [18:45:09] <hicks_> there's no point having encryption on sdd1, so that would imply you're going to wipe sdc1 after.
2379 [18:45:16] <jhutchins> hicks_: Exactly.
2380 [18:45:37] <hicks_> and then you're back to just one copy of your data which is encrypted and that needs a backup as there's all the normal ways to lose data + a few more with encryption.
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2382 [18:46:11] <namoamitabuddha> I will wipe them days after, I think, not for the moment.
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2384 [18:46:26] <namoamitabuddha> I need to repeatedly test the settings
2385 [18:46:42] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: We're just going from what we've seen, here and in our professional life.
2386 [18:46:48] <hicks_> just bear in mind, many a person has encrypted the wrong disk :)
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2388 [18:46:53] <mender27> Good evening :).
2389 [18:46:55] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: Experience is proportional to data destroyed.
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2392 [18:47:14] <jhutchins> hicks_: Yeah, the email loss was duplicating the new drive to the source instead of the other way around.
2393 [18:47:19] <mzs114> GE mender27
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2395 [18:47:44] <mender27> I managed to fix up a nice Debian ZFS pool for the main system.
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2397 [18:47:50] <namoamitabuddha> Thank you for the suggestions.
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2401 [18:49:12] <jhutchins> namoamitabuddha: Good luck.
2402 [18:49:36] <BluesKaj> mender27, so what are the advantages of ZFS over other file systems like ext and ntfs for storage?
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2405 [18:50:01] <mender27> BluesKaj, you get a reliable volume manager + raid manager
2406 [18:50:23] <Papillon> for me the benefit of zfs is data checksumming
2407 [18:50:36] <BluesKaj> ahh, raid for multiple disks
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2409 [18:50:43] <mzs114> BluesKaj: instant snapshots
2410 [18:50:59] <Papillon> but zfs has snapshotting, and it'll let you combine drives and partitions in just about any way and any raid combination you want
2411 [18:50:59] <mender27> BluesKaj, either RAID with 1 drive parity, with 2 drive parity or a mirror and on top of that instant atomic snapshots.
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2413 [18:51:17] <hicks_> zfs send is nice too for backing up snapshots to another machine
2414 [18:51:21] <Papillon> it's like btrfs but mature
2415 [18:51:25] <Papillon> afaik
2416 [18:51:43] <mender27> not to mention flexible volume handling. Yes, Papillon is spot on.
2417 [18:51:45] <namoamitabuddha> cp -rp /home ...
2418 [18:51:50] <namoamitabuddha> Is that enough?
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2420 [18:52:56] <Papillon> personally I like letting lvm handle most of that stuff, and I don't really thing zfs or btrfs make great general purpose filesystems
2421 [18:53:06] <Papillon> but checksumming is nice
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2423 [18:53:27] <Papillon> I'm kinda surprised filesystems don't offer file checksums
2424 [18:53:30] <hicks_> I run zfs on my server but ext on desktop (whichever ext version debian setup by default)
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2426 [18:53:51] <jhutchins> replaced-url
2427 [18:54:00] <missmbob> Papillon: ext4's maintainer disagrees with you
2428 [18:54:09] <mender27> I try to run zfs whenever possible, though on GNU/Linux it's much harder to do root-on-zfs.
2429 [18:54:23] <Papillon> about what? file checksums?
2430 [18:54:37] <hicks_> My server is the first time I've tried zfs, used it for the last 12 month on freenas with no issues.
2431 [18:54:52] <jhutchins> Papillon: zfs has the advantage of preserving old copies of files until the new copy is veriried, as well as raid-like reliability.
2432 [18:54:59] <missmbob> Papillon: general purpose. it is the future of linux fs, not ext. that's what he said
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2436 [18:55:37] <mender27> And per some testing I've done recently, it's perfectly fine to migrate a ZFS pool between Debian Testing and FreeBSD RELEASE.
2437 [18:55:41] <Papillon> jhutchins: you can do that by structuring how you write a change to a filesystem, particularly with journaling
2438 [18:55:59] <Papillon> and ext actually supports that fairly well
2439 [18:56:03] <jhutchins> Papillon: Read the link if you're interested.
2440 [18:56:17] <jhutchins> Papillon: lvm has too much overhead on high-traffic systems.
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2442 [18:56:18] <hicks_> the one limitation I'm not keen on is lack of ability to expand a volume with new disks. You can make more vols and add to a pool, or replace disks with bigger, but not change a 3 disk raidz1 into a 6 disk raidz2 for example.
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2445 [18:56:49] <hicks_> A bit of pre-planning minimises the issues with that, but it'd be nice to see that limitation go away one day.
2446 [18:57:42] <mender27> hicks_, I think per the FreeBSD Handbook raidz pool are not designed to be expanded :).
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2448 [18:58:03] <hicks_> yeah, at least not in terms of adding more disks to the same volume
2449 [18:58:32] <hicks_> you could add 3 more disks as another raidz1 then put both vols in the same pool, but then you have 2x3 disks each of raidz1
2450 [18:58:42] <hicks_> which is less "safe" than 6 disks in raidz2
2451 [18:59:05] <hicks_> but that said, backup data, make new vol and restore, not the end of the world :)
2452 [19:01:19] <mender27> Yup, pretty much! I read through the document you linked and most of the cons are not really limitations of the file system, but rather precautions one needs to take.
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2455 [19:02:44] <Papillon> I'd like it if partitions were more abstract. Kind of like virtual machines on a vm cluster, able to grow and shrink depending on circumstances
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2461 [19:04:56] <Papillon> maybe it could be based more on quotas than fixed sizes
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2467 [19:11:24] <mender27> Well, the concept of virtual devices (vdevs) seems quite reliable and if you combine it with Docker or raw Linux Containers it blows :).
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2472 [19:14:30] <Papillon> containers and zfs both came out of solaris 10
2473 [19:14:44] <Papillon> they were probably designed around one another
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2475 [19:15:24] <mzs114> Papillon: I think containers first came from BSD - Jails
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2477 [19:15:34] <mzs114> then Solaris implemented something similar
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2480 [19:17:06] <mender27> It's cool to see those features now being vigorously developed for Linux-land.
2481 [19:17:24] <Papillon> huh, looks like you're right, freebsd 4 had jails in '00, solaris 10 came out with containers and zfs in '05
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2484 [19:17:50] <mender27> Yup, containers were written by some company for FreeBSD to allow isolation of processes.
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2486 [19:17:59] <mzs114> yeah.. attended so many docker conf/talks that they all repeat the same thing.. BSD jails, Zones, etc
2487 [19:18:11] <mender27> There is even a note in the jail(8) manpage :D.
2488 [19:18:20] <mzs114> I am fed up of docker.. and things based on that
2489 [19:18:30] <mender27> Well, but we do need it, no?
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2492 [19:18:34] <mzs114> liked OpenVZ
2493 [19:18:47] <mzs114> sad it did not get into mainline kernel
2494 [19:19:05] <mzs114> well we don't need it if we had a better alt
2495 [19:19:20] <mzs114> unfortunately GNU/Linux does not have one
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2498 [19:20:30] <mender27> mzs114, why did OpenVZ not make it into the kernel?
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2506 [19:22:33] <mzs114> don't remember the exact history mender27, but something related to patches not being sent/accepted
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2508 [19:22:34] <mender27> Ah, I see it has a kernel version restriction.
2509 [19:23:06] <mzs114> yeah, some changes are necessary for that module to run and iirc OpenVZ proj never pushed for this
2510 [19:23:08] <mender27> That's a bit of a bummer, since there are millions of Linux kernel versions and being able to test each of them in a container would be golden.
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2512 [19:23:11] <mzs114> I could be wring
2513 [19:23:16] <mzs114> wrong*
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2516 [19:24:40] <mender27> I think I'll try Docker eventually to isolate some of my devel environments. Previously I used a Gentoo chroot for that, but that was as ridiculous as Jails with ports built manually for each Jail.
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2518 [19:25:11] <mzs114> try it out.. you might like it.. then there is rkt and lxc.
2519 [19:25:19] <mzs114> but my experience is not much with them
2520 [19:25:41] <mender27> I thought Docker wraps around lxc. Need to have a look.
2521 [19:25:43] <mzs114> I like traditional containers and proven ones.. lxc misses one
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2523 [19:25:50] <mzs114> early releases yes
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2525 [19:25:54] <mzs114> not anymore
2526 [19:26:54] <mender27> Oh!
2527 [19:26:57] *** Quits: yolan (~yolan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2528 [19:27:02] <mender27> Well that sucks, sorry.
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2530 [19:27:55] <mender27> Yup, wiki mentioned "libcontainer" written in Go :/.
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2559 [19:40:30] <asarch> Why my Debian box lost the connection with other Linux boxes when I do ssh?
2560 [19:40:41] <asarch> Is there any way to know why this is happening?
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2566 [19:42:58] <mender27> asarch, do you mean when connect via ssh to the box or from the box?
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2570 [19:44:49] <asarch> I do: ssh myotherlinuxbox, inside the the myotherlinuxbox: tmux -u
2571 [19:45:06] <asarch> And when I type commands, myotherlinuxbox doesn't respond
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2573 [19:46:14] <jelly> asarch: is it pingable during that time?
2574 [19:46:50] <asarch> No, it isn't: 6 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 5110ms
2575 [19:48:13] <jelly> inspect kernel logs if there are any
2576 [19:48:23] <jelly> /var/log/kern.log
2577 [19:48:38] <jelly> asarch: how do you recover it?
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2584 [19:51:20] <asarch> Take a look of my dmesg: libapp-nopaste-perl
2585 [19:51:28] <asarch> I mean, replaced-url
2586 [19:51:46] <asarch> Yeah, I have to press several times the button jelly
2587 [19:51:49] <asarch> (any button)
2588 [19:52:05] <jelly> button on what?
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2590 [19:52:43] <asarch> I mean, any keyboard button
2591 [19:52:48] <asarch> In the terminal window
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2600 [19:54:42] <jelly> that suggests interrupt issues, which usually have to be worked around in the kernel
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2602 [19:55:25] <doublehp> "/usr/bin/sweethome3d: 304: exec: /etc/java-config-2/current-system-vm/bin/java: not found" how do I fix my java ? this bug has been fixed in 2011 for sweethome v3, I have sweethome v4 ... so the issue is in java configuration
2603 [19:55:30] <jelly> ,v linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 --arch amd64
2604 [19:55:31] <judd> Package: linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 4.9.13-1~bpo8+1
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2608 [19:56:22] <jelly> doublehp: which package does /etc/java-config-2 directory belong to? That doesn't look like debian's alternatives
2609 [19:56:32] <jelly> doublehp: which debian release is this?
2610 [19:56:38] <doublehp> jelly: i don't know
2611 [19:56:52] <doublehp> jelly: jessie
2612 [19:56:56] <jelly> doublehp: find out
2613 [19:57:13] <doublehp> jelly: directory does not exist
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2615 [19:57:45] <jelly> then figure out why your software tries to access it
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2620 [19:58:44] <jelly> doublehp: do you have an /usr/bin/java ? what do "ls -ld /usr/bin/java" and "readlink -f /usr/bin/java" say?
2621 [19:59:02] <doublehp> /usr/bin/java -> /etc/alternatives/java
2622 [19:59:11] <doublehp> /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/bin/java
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2624 [19:59:28] <jelly> that looks fine, not broken in any way
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2626 [20:00:04] <jelly> it seems it's not any distro java configuration that's to blame
2627 [20:00:52] <jelly> doublehp: if /usr/bin/sweethome3d is a shell script, try running it with -x, see what happens and where it guesses or reads the invalid path from
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2631 [20:01:35] <jelly> doublehp: more precisely: run it as "/bin/sh -x /usr/bin/sweethome3d" if its #! line has /bin/sh
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2633 [20:02:00] <jelly> if it uses a different shell interpreter, use that
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2636 [20:03:00] <toruvinn> []
2637 [20:03:02] <toruvinn> oops, sorry
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2639 [20:03:19] <doublehp> jelly: source replaced-url
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2651 [20:06:34] <jelly> doublehp: your script seems to be buggy. A casual look suggest it guesses wrong somewhere in "find_java_runtime" function after it's called as "find_java_runtime java6" (line 34)
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2654 [20:07:16] <jelly> doublehp: also, why are you running this as root?
2655 [20:07:24] *** Joins: Atm0spher1c (~future@replaced-ip )
2656 [20:07:32] <doublehp> because i am exhausted
2657 [20:07:43] <jelly> (or why do you have $HOME set to /root)
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2659 [20:08:41] <doublehp> this is the 3rd layer of nested deboostrap inside virtualbox machines ... so, no, i am not going to create 4096b RSA password for each submachine and spend hours typing "safe passwords"
2660 [20:08:47] *** Joins: julius_ (~julius@replaced-ip )
2661 [20:08:47] <julius_> hi
2662 [20:09:02] *** Joins: mar77i (~mar77i@replaced-ip )
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2664 [20:09:34] <jelly> I have no idea what may go wrong when you choose to run random third-party java apps as root
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2667 [20:10:20] <jelly> doublehp: verify your environment variable do not already have some java-related weirdness set
2668 [20:10:22] *** Joins: peterbecich (~peterbeci@replaced-ip )
2669 [20:10:28] <doublehp> jelly: define thirdparty. i just typed "aptitude install sweethome" from inside a very fresh debootstrap
2670 [20:10:30] <jelly> variables*
2671 [20:10:32] <namoamitabuddha> Hello
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2673 [20:10:38] <namoamitabuddha> here, replaced-url
2674 [20:10:43] <jelly> ,v sweethome
2675 [20:10:44] <judd> No package named 'sweethome' was found in amd64.
2676 [20:10:47] <jelly> doublehp: ^^
2677 [20:10:49] <namoamitabuddha> it seems to me that the fstab is suggested to be written as:
2678 [20:10:58] <jelly> doublehp: is that the correct name?
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2680 [20:11:15] <julius_> one of my network cards on a server (Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ Ethernet Controller (rev 10) does not come up when the system boots (ifconfig does not show it), the system doenst even load he driver..shouldnt a loaded driver: 8139too provide a interface in the ifconfig output?
2681 [20:11:16] <doublehp> jelly: after installing the machine, the only other command I had run was "aptitude install vim bash-completion", and edit /etc/bash.bashrc to enable completion, and relogin,and then, install sweethome
2682 [20:11:27] <namoamitabuddha> hello
2683 [20:11:40] <doublehp> jelly: try to add "3d" in the end
2684 [20:11:41] <julius_> the card worked without problems just a few days ago...i even went back two kernel versions...since the system gets rebooted every day
2685 [20:11:46] <namoamitabuddha> /dev/mapper/tmp /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0
2686 [20:11:49] <jelly> doublehp: a package named "sweethome" does not seem to exist in debian
2687 [20:11:58] <jelly> ,v sweethome3d
2688 [20:12:00] <doublehp> sweethome3d
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2690 [20:12:08] <namoamitabuddha> I don't understand what does tmpfs as a filesystem mean here?
2691 [20:12:16] <judd> Package: sweethome3d on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.5+dfsg-1; wheezy-security: 3.5+dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-backports: 4.5+dfsg-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 4.5+dfsg-3; stretch: 5.3+dfsg-2; sid: 5.3+dfsg-2; experimental: 5.4+dfsg-1
2692 [20:12:17] <doublehp> was available even BEFORE i added contrib nonfree
2693 [20:12:20] <Papillon> tmpfs is a ramdisk filesystem
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2696 [20:12:51] <Papillon> tmpfs stores everything in ram or swap and it's not persistent, if you reboot everything will be gone
2697 [20:12:52] <namoamitabuddha> It's a bit different from ramdisk, but here you should notice that he also specifies the block device.
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2699 [20:13:12] <namoamitabuddha> it's not something like: tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0
2700 [20:13:13] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: the block device argument is ignored with a tmpfs
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2702 [20:13:22] <jelly> you can type in anything
2703 [20:13:40] <jelly> it's just a string
2704 [20:13:43] <namoamitabuddha> Therefore here the wiki page indicates something wrong?
2705 [20:13:55] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: which wiki page?
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2707 [20:14:04] <jelly> doublehp: ah, that's better
2708 [20:14:09] <namoamitabuddha> replaced-url
2709 [20:14:17] *** Quits: KindOne (kindone@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2710 [20:14:18] <namoamitabuddha> Configuring fstab and crypttab
2711 [20:14:48] *** Quits: ameivq (~mario.giu@151.45.252.194) (Remote host closed the connection)
2712 [20:14:57] <doublehp> namoamitabuddha: i personally don't make any difference between a ramdisk and tmpfs; only differes by the creation process, the max size, and how quotas are handeled; a ramdisk can be used at 100%, while a tmpfs may freese the system if you try to use 100% while large apps are running without swap; tmpfs is a bit more concurrent with RAM for apps,
2713 [20:15:07] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: ask the archlinux wiki people, maybe?
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2715 [20:15:17] <Papillon> tmpfs is a ramdisk that can overflow into swap
2716 [20:15:25] <Papillon> which technically is virtual ram
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2718 [20:15:31] <Papillon> so it's like a vramfs
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2722 [20:16:35] <doublehp> namoamitabuddha: usually ramdisks are fixed size, and small; tmpfs are larger, and can be resized; the tmpfs can use up to 80% of your RAM (default is 50%; 80% needs kernel boot options); RDs are used usually only for 1-16MB.
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2725 [20:17:23] <doublehp> Papillon: i disagree; to me, a tmpfs can NOT be pushed to swap
2726 [20:17:42] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: that doesn't make a lot of sense, I'd say it's misleading if not completely wrong, but who knows, maybe arch has patches
2727 [20:17:46] <Papillon> I'm just telling you what I read on wikipedia. But wikipedia's shit
2728 [20:18:00] <jelly> doublehp: ramfs can't be pushed to swap. tmpfs CAN.
2729 [20:18:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1706
2730 [20:18:00] <mender27> Erm, it's not :P.
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2737 [20:19:34] <namoamitabuddha> But I don't know how to modify it properly. Here it's a partition with a random passphrase.
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2740 [20:20:39] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: put "none" instead of "/dev/mapper/tmp" there if you want, no difference
2741 [20:21:11] <jelly> or if you _want_ your /tmp to be large and disk-backed, use a different fstype, ext4 or whatnot
2742 [20:21:33] <namoamitabuddha> but ext4 cannot be randomly encrypted each boot.
2743 [20:21:51] <jelly> correct
2744 [20:22:00] *** Parts: m455 (~m455@replaced-ip )
2745 [20:22:07] <jelly> I don't know what your preferences and goals are.
2746 [20:22:41] <Papillon> why not?
2747 [20:22:51] <jelly> following tutorials without understanding the steps and reasons for those steps is probably not a very good idea
2748 [20:23:15] <namoamitabuddha> tmp /dev/mapper/MyVol-tmp /dev/urandom tmp,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=256
2749 [20:23:24] <namoamitabuddha> in crypttab
2750 [20:23:35] <jelly> Papillon: because it needs to have structures persisting across reboots?
2751 [20:23:42] <namoamitabuddha> this means that each boot will fetch the passphrase from /dev/urandom
2752 [20:24:06] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: and then you need to create a filesystem on top of it, every time
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2754 [20:25:15] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, and then maybe highly structured fs like ext4 doesn't fit the goal.
2755 [20:25:37] <doublehp> jelly: giving up Java ? going to bed, thanks for trying.
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2759 [20:26:37] <jelly> doublehp: sorry. I installed it on a jessie system, started and it Just Works™
2760 [20:26:48] *** Quits: asarch (~asarch@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2761 [20:27:10] <jelly> so there's something on your system that makes the script go weird
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2763 [20:27:22] <doublehp> jelly: debootstrap
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2768 [20:28:36] <jelly> doublehp: how do you pass X socket and credentials into it?
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2774 [20:30:14] <doublehp> jelly: chroot does it fine, no clue how
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2778 [20:31:45] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: it's still faster and better performing than relying on swap space
2779 [20:32:25] <namoamitabuddha> so ext2 or ext4?
2780 [20:32:32] <jelly> so choose whether you need a large /tmp with a real filesystem, or a smaller one backed with tmpfs
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2783 [20:33:44] <jelly> if it's tmpfs, then it does not need or use a separate backend device. It will however use swap space if kernel thinks it needs to page out some of it
2784 [20:33:59] <namoamitabuddha> OK
2785 [20:34:06] <namoamitabuddha> I don't understand how this works: replaced-url
2786 [20:34:33] <jelly> they use "ext4" as fstype
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2789 [20:35:18] <namoamitabuddha> Yes, but they didn't specify anything to mkfs.ext4 for each boot.
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2791 [20:36:14] <jelly> I have no idea what extra features ubuntu has in their crypttab parsing
2792 [20:36:42] <jelly> "man crypttab" on jessie or stretch does not have any mention of "tmp" or "tmp="
2793 [20:36:59] <jelly> oh, it DOES
2794 [20:37:06] * jelly reading wrong man page
2795 [20:37:18] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: there ya go, it was a RTFM
2796 [20:37:41] <namoamitabuddha> strange enough. I don't have the man page for crypttab
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2798 [20:38:03] <jelly> namoamitabuddha: which debian release are you using?
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2800 [20:39:13] <jelly> if you go "I'm actually running this other distro that's JUST like debian" you're getting a virtual slap
2801 [20:39:30] <namoamitabuddha> Debian GNU/Linux 8 \n \l
2802 [20:39:43] <namoamitabuddha> /etc/issue
2803 [20:39:48] <Papillon> I'm running ubuntu. Maybe you've heard of it? It's... like... the best. So much better than debian
2804 [20:39:55] <Papillon> ./s
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2806 [20:40:10] <jelly> Papillon: that's just fine as long as you're not the one asking questions!
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2808 [20:42:05] <dysfigured> any ideas why `apt-get build-dep vim` is giving me E: Build-Depends dependency for vim cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package debhelper can't satisfy version requirements
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2811 [20:43:34] <TomTomTo1> dysfigured: which package are you trying to build? you likely need to have jessie-backports enabled.
2812 [20:43:44] <SuperTramp83> Buguntu!
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2814 [20:44:08] <dysfigured> TomTomTo1: trying to build vim from source. i have backports enabled..
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2823 [20:48:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1699
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2827 [20:49:02] <TomTomTo1> dysfigured: can you paste the whole output to paste.debian.net and also apt-cache policy debhelper
2828 [20:50:12] <dysfigured> that's 99% entirely the whole output, except the, "reading package list, building dep tree, reading state information" bit
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2831 [20:51:05] <namoamitabuddha> that's due to cryptsetup isn't installed
2832 [20:51:11] <namoamitabuddha> only cryptsetup-bin is installed
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2836 [20:53:32] <dysfigured> replaced-url
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2848 [20:57:41] <jelly> judd: checkbackport vim
2849 [20:57:42] <judd> Backporting package vim in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie, virtual, jessie-backports.
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2854 [20:58:50] <jelly> dysfigured: add -t jessie-backports to the command, see if it makes a difference
2855 [20:59:03] <TomTomTo1> dysfigured: interesting. you can try installing debhelper manually and see if the output changes to something usable or you can try using aptitude build-dep and see if it handles it differently.
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2857 [20:59:33] <namoamitabuddha> thank you all. reboot to check
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2865 [21:03:56] <dysfigured> did i make some kind of frankedebian? i don't understand why i can't get build-deps without needing the backport trick
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2880 [21:10:34] <Lyberta> hi, I've just bought a VDS and installed Debian on it, I want to serve web pages, what DNS server should I install?
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2884 [21:14:06] <dysfigured> Lyberta: idk what a vds is, and i've never heard of someone installing a dns server... but if you want to serve web pages you probably want either apache or nginx
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2886 [21:14:43] <Papillon> virtual server in the cloud?
2887 [21:14:48] <Papillon> I forget what they're called
2888 [21:14:50] <Papillon> vm
2889 [21:14:51] <Lyberta> dysfigured, virtual dedicated server, I've already installed apache
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2891 [21:15:06] <missmbob> bind9 is standard
2892 [21:15:15] <Lyberta> but I need to somehow point people to my IP
2893 [21:15:18] <Lyberta> I see
2894 [21:16:28] <Papillon> there's that free dns thing...
2895 [21:17:24] <missmbob> most dns providers can handle dns for you via a web interface. whichever
2896 [21:17:34] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip )
2897 [21:17:37] <missmbob> host*
2898 [21:17:40] <Papillon> huh, dyndns shut down it's free plan
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2900 [21:18:02] <dysfigured> there's duckdns
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2947 [21:41:47] <Dungeon> hey guys when i try to apt install apt-show-versions i get an error
2948 [21:42:03] <beernbhroy> any recommendations for tile based wm?
2949 [21:42:09] <Dungeon> apt-show-versions : Depends: libapt-pkg-perl (>= 0.1.21) but it is not going to be installed
2950 [21:42:09] <Dungeon> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
2951 [21:42:17] <beernbhroy> mp3 player
2952 [21:42:40] <Dungeon> but then when you try to install libapt-pkg-perl i get another error
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2954 [21:43:31] <dysfigured> beernbhroy: do you have programming experience?
2955 [21:43:40] <Dungeon> webmin : Depends: apt-show-versions but it is not going to be installed
2956 [21:43:40] <Dungeon> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
2957 [21:44:03] <beernbhroy> dysfigured: yeah but im more a network engineer
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2962 [21:44:58] <dysfigured> well you have two sort of types of wms, plain-text config, and code-based config. i3 is generally the most popular of the former, and the latter you have a lot of more choices (and also a lot more control)
2963 [21:45:17] <beernbhroy> im on i3 atm and i like it alot
2964 [21:45:24] <beernbhroy> but im missing a good mp3 player
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2966 [21:46:21] <dysfigured> beernbhroy: i'm in love with mpd but you might find it overkill. cmus might be more suitable
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2969 [21:47:01] <beernbhroy> ty dysfigured i'll give it a try
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2971 [21:47:17] <dysfigured> i suppose it depends on if you want a tui or gui based
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2973 [21:47:25] <beernbhroy> tui
2974 [21:47:41] <dysfigured> try cmus then. or i think moc
2975 [21:48:50] <beernbhroy> cmus looks very plain i like it
2976 [21:49:31] <dysfigured> if you can stomach the config process, mpd is also worth trying
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2978 [21:50:29] <Dungeon> hey guys when i try to apt install apt-show-versions i get an error
2979 [21:50:37] <Dungeon> apt-show-versions : Depends: libapt-pkg-perl (>= 0.1.21) but it is not going to be installed
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2981 [21:50:45] <Dungeon> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
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2983 [21:51:02] <Dungeon> now i was advised that webmin isnt a good program to run
2984 [21:51:31] <Dungeon> however i dont know how to reverse the install nor do i know how to get that apt package installed
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2988 [21:52:41] <beernbhroy> dungeon: apt-get remove foobar
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2991 [21:53:44] <beernbhroy> Dungeon: check your /etc/apt/sources.list on which release you are, maybe you can fix your problem by downloading a package from packages.debian.org and install it by dpkg manually
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2996 [21:55:39] <Dungeon> only thing in there is like 6 linode links
2997 [21:55:57] <Dungeon> wait 4 from linode and 2 from debian
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2999 [21:56:40] <beernbhroy> yet another crippled vps image :o
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3038 [22:14:49] <rnd_> Anyone has any idea why am I getting this: replaced-url
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3048 [22:24:00] <ice303> hi
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3053 [22:25:17] <jhutchins> rnd_: That is not actually enough of the output, but you missed a step or a package or did not follow the directions correctly. The Nvidia drivers are usually built as a module, and can be maintained with dkms, which is the preferred method.
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3055 [22:26:37] <jhutchins> Dungeon: This is the expected outcome when you mix repositories.
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3057 [22:26:56] <jhutchins> !linode
3058 [22:27:19] <rnd_> jhuthins: well, this came almost at the end of the build after more than an hour...before that all i did is unpacked the source, made a copy of /boot/config-`uname -r` to ./.config , did a make menuconfig
3059 [22:27:26] <mcintosh> what is !linode supposed to be? (just wondering)
3060 [22:27:33] <sypher> rnd_: What are you trying to accomplish by building a new kernel?
3061 [22:27:49] <rnd_> make-kpkg clean ; and then fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --apend-to-version=-custom kernel_image kernel_headers
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3063 [22:28:23] <rnd_> sypher: restart the system with the new kernel?
3064 [22:28:33] <sypher> rnd_: WHY is this new kernel needed?
3065 [22:28:51] <jhutchins> mcintosh: It's a cloud hosting service that hosts it's own Debian mirrors. Probably had a release mismatch or some such.
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3067 [22:29:07] <mcintosh> jhutchins: i work there - was just wondering about the alias :)
3068 [22:29:18] <rnd_> sypher: Well, there isnt anything specific about it that I need, but is that a reason no to try to compile it?
3069 [22:29:43] <sypher> rnd_: So you're just building a new kernel for giggles?
3070 [22:29:44] <jhutchins> mcintosh: Oh! The ! character is the same as addressing the dpkg channel bot.
3071 [22:30:03] <jhutchins> mcintosh: I was checking to see if there was a cautionary factoid.
3072 [22:30:12] <mcintosh> ah, I see
3073 [22:30:13] <sypher> jhutchins: I'd be surprised if the Linode mirrors were that screwed up.
3074 [22:30:16] <rnd_> sypher: If I cant do it for giggles today, I wont be able to do it for money tomorrow
3075 [22:30:17] <jhutchins> mcintosh: Using , triggers judd.
3076 [22:30:24] <rnd_> sypher: but yes
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3080 [22:31:28] <jhutchins> sypher: Yeah, but what he has is mis-matched dependencies, so he might have used the wrong release tag or something like that. I would expect their repos to be pretty reliable, if possibly tuned for their own environment.
3081 [22:31:35] <sypher> rnd_: That's... nonsense on so many levels.
3082 [22:32:01] <sypher> jhutchins: Then he would have had to screw with it, because the default sources.list at Linode is identical to a stock jessie install, just aimed at the local mirror.
3083 [22:32:01] <jhutchins> rnd_: What guide are you following?
3084 [22:32:32] <jhutchins> sypher: He said he had both linode and debian sources.
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3087 [22:32:55] <sypher> jhutchins: Linode for packages and debian for security updates, probably.
3088 [22:33:01] *** Quits: atehwa (atehwa@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3089 [22:33:08] <rnd_> jhutchins: replaced-url
3090 [22:33:11] <jhutchins> !custom kernel
3091 [22:33:11] <dpkg> Read replaced-url
3092 [22:33:15] <missmbob> linode uses it for their monitoring software
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3094 [22:33:19] <rnd_> And Im trying to do it on a Xubuntu VM
3095 [22:33:22] <sypher> missmbob: Separate repo.
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3098 [22:33:34] <jhutchins> rnd_: This is not Ubuntu.
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3100 [22:33:55] <jhutchins> rnd_: Kernel specifics are one of the ways they differ.
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3102 [22:34:08] <jhutchins> rnd_: See the message from dpkg above.
3103 [22:34:10] <rnd_> Im all ears.
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3105 [22:34:28] <sypher> !tell rnd_ about ubuntu
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3107 [22:34:41] <jhutchins> rnd_: If you're actually doing it on ubuntu, please ask in their channel(s).
3108 [22:35:16] <jhutchins> rnd_: That which fixes Debian often breaks Ubuntu.
3109 [22:35:29] <sypher> rnd_: And note that (virtually) no sane enterprise runs servers on custom-compiled kernels. I'm sure there is the rare exception.
3110 [22:35:59] <rnd_> This seemed to me as a debian issue
3111 [22:36:05] <rnd_> In the error msg
3112 [22:36:08] <jhutchins> sypher: Not too rare, but often built once and placed in a local repo.
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3115 [22:36:24] <sypher> jhutchins: Anecdotal here, but I have yet to encounter any environment where that's done.
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3118 [22:36:52] <sypher> rnd_: Are you running Ubuntu?
3119 [22:37:01] <jhutchins> sypher: If they have non-standard hardware, or special environmental needs, or insanely meddlesome security CIOs.
3120 [22:37:09] <rnd_> Im running Debian
3121 [22:37:23] <sypher> rnd_: You just said you were doing this on a Xubuntu VM, so now you appear to be lying.
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3124 [22:37:44] <towo`> rnd_, if you think, it's a debian issue, then don't use make-kpkg
3125 [22:37:46] <rnd_> Im running Debian, but it is a xubuntu vm where im trying to compile the kernel
3126 [22:37:51] <towo`> rnd_, because it's dead jim
3127 [22:37:58] <sypher> jhutchins: The first, I might understand. The second and third make it no longer a sane enterprise. :P
3128 [22:38:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1689
3129 [22:38:12] <towo`> rnd_, and the error you have pasted is not a debian issue
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3131 [22:38:24] <sypher> rnd_: The issue occurs in a not Debian VM, meaning you're not running Debian, meaning you're in the wrong channel.
3132 [22:38:33] <sypher> rnd_: Please seek assistance in the venue previously noted.
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3134 [22:38:37] <towo`> rnd_, and no one can and will help you, because the important part of the error is missing
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3136 [22:39:06] <rnd_> well thats the whole output
3137 [22:39:15] <towo`> no, is not
3138 [22:39:22] <sypher> jhutchins: Well, the second (special environmental needs) might be plausible as well, I can't predict everywhere. The third issue is definitely a not-sane environment.
3139 [22:39:51] <sypher> rnd_: Your concern is off-topic for this channel. Please, seek assistance in the appropriate channel.
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3141 [22:40:06] <rnd_> sure
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3143 [22:40:48] <towo`> rnd_, btw, if you can't handle building a rc-kernel, you shouldn't do it
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3145 [22:41:24] <waxheadm> how can i find out if the btrfs-tools will be upgraded to match the kernel version in stretch
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3147 [22:41:41] <mcintosh> fwiw webmin install from scratch works totally fine on a debian 8 linode - don't think the issue has anything to do with Linode mirrors/distro images
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3149 [22:41:49] <jhutchins> sypher: Even more common for the latter is a custom build of apache with a unique installation.
3150 [22:42:06] <sypher> jhutchins: Like for a webhost?
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3154 [22:43:19] <jhutchins> sypher: Like the load ballancer proxying to three Solaris nodes which then proxy via Apache to two Linux boxes running very non-standard Apache.
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3156 [22:43:34] <sypher> jhutchins: That sounds horrid.
3157 [22:43:52] <jhutchins> sypher: Fortunately, it will die this year, but perhaps not until the end of May.
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3160 [22:44:31] <jhutchins> sypher: I sometimes suspect that there were people who built things both for obfuscation and to impress people with their ability to work completely outside the box.
3161 [22:44:44] <sypher> jhutchins: I'm still cringing.
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3163 [22:45:09] <jhutchins> sypher: Next meeting 10:00 Monday.
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3166 [22:45:54] <jhutchins> sypher: We're pretty sure nobody at the agency even knows they have a web site.
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3172 [22:48:03] <mcintosh> jhutchins: ah that dependency issue stems from trying to install webmin before an apt-get upgrade
3173 [22:48:39] <n4dir> !webmin
3174 [22:48:39] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
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3180 [22:50:19] <teraflops> mcintosh: it was me like 12 hours ago talking to you about the crapiness of webmin?
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3182 [22:51:03] <jhutchins> mcintosh: I had the misfortune of having to manage a webmin'ed server for a couple of years. When it breaks, you have to not only know how things are supposed to be configured in Linux, but how webmin breaks ALL of those rules.
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3184 [22:51:38] <mcintosh> teraflops: nope! i hate it too, though
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3187 [22:52:28] <mcintosh> jhutchins: pretty much all panels are terrible IMO (there are a few that aren't entirely dreadful but they're mostly pointless)
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3189 [22:52:43] <mcintosh> but webmin is definitely not among the most useful, that's for sure
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3195 [22:54:34] <teraflops> webmin polutes config files and do weird things like (last time I checked) chattr +i apache config files
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3199 [22:56:40] <somiaj> !webmin
3200 [22:56:40] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
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3202 [22:56:52] <missmbob> it's a friends dont let friends situtation
3203 [22:56:58] <somiaj> I would suggest looking at some of those /msg dpkg fee whcp if you really want such a thing.
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3210 [22:59:38] <yokisuci> t12321
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3216 [23:00:38] <tempate> Hello
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3219 [23:01:11] <tempate> What is the official link to downloading debians ISO for vbox?
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3228 [23:03:41] <somiaj> tempate: what do you mean by iso for vbox?
3229 [23:04:21] <tempate> somiaj, I want to install Debian (no desktop) as a Virtual Machine on Virtual Box.
3230 [23:04:29] <jim> towo`, haven;t heard -that- one before...
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3234 [23:04:49] <tempate> somiaj, my question is: "What is the official or most reliable link to download it."
3235 [23:05:01] <towo`> jim, ?
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3243 [23:07:10] <tempate> Sorry for that, I am back
3244 [23:07:21] <missmbob> cdimage.debian.org
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3246 [23:07:32] <somiaj> tempate: debian.org, and there is not special about a vbox iso. A netinstall image should be sufficent.
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3248 [23:08:36] <Oer> Tempesta, installation iso ? or pre-installed vm for vbox, replaced-url
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3251 [23:10:11] <tempate> somiaj: Alright, thanks
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3262 [23:15:02] <jim> towo`, [20170319 14:37:51] <towo`> rnd_, because it's dead jim
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3267 [23:16:34] <towo`> jim, ah, sorry for that hilight, but it's a quote of captain kirk
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3271 [23:17:47] <jim> I'm well aware :) (and the quote is of Docter McCoy)
3272 [23:18:19] <towo`> yes, that's what i mean
3273 [23:18:23] <towo`> it's late here
3274 [23:18:34] <jim> no huge deal
3275 [23:19:04] *** Joins: jackNemrod_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3276 [23:19:24] *** Quits: jackNemrod (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3277 [23:19:24] *** jackNemrod_ is now known as jackNemrod
3278 [23:19:26] <jim> Deforest Kelly
3279 [23:20:12] *** Quits: tempate (~tempate@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3280 [23:20:37] *** Joins: tempate (~tempate@replaced-ip )
3281 [23:20:39] <tempate> a
3282 [23:20:47] *** Quits: Kruppt (~Kruppt@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3283 [23:23:05] *** Quits: WoodLeg (~WoodLeg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3284 [23:25:33] *** Quits: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quit())
3285 [23:26:01] *** Joins: makimaki (~makimaki`@replaced-ip )
3286 [23:26:27] *** Quits: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3287 [23:27:32] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3288 [23:30:31] *** Joins: Ansit (~Ansit@replaced-ip )
3289 [23:30:52] *** Quits: remo (~remo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3290 [23:31:18] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3291 [23:31:39] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip )
3292 [23:31:42] *** Joins: zephrfish (~andrewg@replaced-ip )
3293 [23:31:46] *** Quits: Ansit (~Ansit@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3294 [23:31:50] *** Quits: maotm (~mao@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3295 [23:32:04] *** Joins: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip )
3296 [23:32:08] <yokisuci> exit
3297 [23:32:09] *** Quits: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3298 [23:32:49] *** Quits: DzAirmaX (~AirmaX@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3299 [23:33:17] *** Joins: piere (~Piere@replaced-ip )
3300 [23:33:18] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip )
3301 [23:33:34] *** Parts: zephrfish (~andrewg@replaced-ip )
3302 [23:34:18] *** Joins: remo (~remo@replaced-ip )
3303 [23:36:43] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3304 [23:36:49] *** Quits: waxheadm (~burp@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Alrighty then.....)
3305 [23:37:25] *** Quits: Smither (~Smither@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3306 [23:38:00] *** Quits: adan (~adan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3307 [23:38:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1683
3308 [23:38:17] *** Joins: NoRm4nD (~NoRm4nD@replaced-ip )
3309 [23:38:29] *** Joins: DzAirmaX (~AirmaX@replaced-ip )
3310 [23:40:08] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3311 [23:42:20] *** Joins: Smither (~Smither@replaced-ip )
3312 [23:45:10] *** gftg is now known as gftg_away
3313 [23:46:00] *** Quits: karakedi (~e7E2C80CD@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3314 [23:46:09] *** Joins: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip )
3315 [23:46:38] *** Parts: t0ry (~tory@replaced-ip )
3316 [23:47:10] *** Joins: johnkeates (~johnkeate@replaced-ip )
3317 [23:47:21] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip )
3318 [23:48:04] *** Quits: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3319 [23:48:24] *** Quits: pmart_ (~pmart@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3320 [23:48:33] *** Joins: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip )
3321 [23:51:32] *** Quits: piere (~Piere@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3322 [23:51:36] *** Quits: Delta-One (~zero@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3323 [23:52:00] *** Quits: Pr0metheus (~nezos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Pr0metheus)
3324 [23:52:24] *** Quits: x032cx (~lxuser@replaced-ip ) (Quit: "You picked the wrong kite to run away with!")
3325 [23:52:52] *** Quits: paranoids (~markus@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
3326 [23:53:04] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3327 [23:53:10] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3328 [23:53:22] *** Joins: yeats (~chris@replaced-ip )
3329 [23:53:42] *** Quits: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3330 [23:53:51] *** Quits: sbasso (~sbasso@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3331 [23:55:25] *** Joins: lethu (~lethu@replaced-ip )
3332 [23:55:46] *** Quits: bluenemo (bluenemo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3333 [23:55:58] *** Joins: sbasso (~sbasso@replaced-ip )
3334 [23:56:34] *** Joins: overlord_tm (~andraz@replaced-ip )
3335 [23:56:52] *** Joins: mihaicmn (~mihaicmn@replaced-ip )
3336 [23:56:52] *** Joins: Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@replaced-ip )
3337 [23:56:54] *** Joins: tefman (~textual@replaced-ip )
3338 [23:57:35] *** Parts: Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@replaced-ip )
3339 [23:57:37] *** Quits: remo (~remo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3340 [23:58:24] <Dungeon> hey guys... i used the information from the wikis lamp section on my server
3341 [23:58:52] <Dungeon> replaced-url
3342 [23:59:18] <Dungeon> however ssl is working for a specific configured admin utility
3343 [23:59:39] <Dungeon> how to i turn it on by default for the ip itself
3344 [23:59:46] *** Quits: BalTun (~BalTun@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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