People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:06] <tomreyn> rx777: if you aren't using disk encryption then you aren't experiencing the issue discussed in #844487
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5 [00:00:33] <rx777> Klaus_Dieter: I am getting the same message the user gets, and then Debian boots.
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7 [00:00:47] <rx777> tomreyn: you are right, I'm sorry.
8 [00:01:07] <rx777> I get the same messages and then Debian boots fine.
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12 [00:01:40] <rx777> I'd like to know what's causing these messages to appear.
13 [00:02:24] <theartificial> Klaus_Dieter: SSH and signing things. Wondering if the security outweighs the convenience of using one keypair.
14 [00:03:50] <tomreyn> rx777: lvmetad does not run this early in the boot process, so lvm initialization using it fails, and the system falls back to device scanning. that's all this *warning* (not error) message is about.
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16 [00:05:31] <rx777> tomreyn: I understand. Is there some way to disable it? (just because I don't enjoy seeing warnings, but I could live with it)
17 [00:05:49] <Klaus_Dieter> theartificial: at this point it is more about flexibility. how about you want to revoke one of those keys but in the beginning you picked to use just one?
18 [00:06:26] <tomreyn> rx777: there is definitely some way, but i don't know it. you'd start by looking at the scripts contained in your initrd.
19 [00:07:06] <tw> theartificial: If you're propagating your signing key to both hosts, I would just use the one. If you're generating different signing subkeys for each host, I would just use the host-specific signing subkey for ssh auth.
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23 [00:08:43] <rx777> tomreyn: thank you. Will look at it and let you know if I found a way :)
24 [00:08:49] <Klaus_Dieter> tw: good catch I was assuming the latte rscenario.
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26 [00:08:59] <Klaus_Dieter> but actually the situation is not quite clear.
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29 [00:09:31] <theartificial> tw: Well I need to ssh into both computers from each other. Also I'd like to sign things with one keypair from both hosts.
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34 [00:10:27] <zombo> Klaus_Dieter: about the tasks; I don't use them because I'm a newbie (to computers anyway), I use them because in the last couple of years I've noticed that if I try to build my install up from the bare bones, some things magically won't work and I will have to scour forums and IRC, and nobody will be able to figure out why, and that is on a stable install (I personally blame a certain recent hotly debated change in debian). Somehow when I install stuff by vi
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66 [00:26:52] <unborn> heh
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68 [00:27:18] <theartificial> tw: I am dumb. You sign things with a pgp keypair not ssh.
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70 [00:27:58] <tw> theartificial: yes, but you can ssh with a pgp keypair.
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72 [00:28:25] <theartificial> tw: how?
73 [00:29:11] <tw> gpg-agent.conf enable-ssh-support
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75 [00:29:56] <tw> It takes some setting up. And as far as I know, it's the easiest way to get ssh keys on a smartcard.
76 [00:30:04] <tw> (which is how I know it exists)
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79 [00:33:12] <NapoleonWils0n> hi all
80 [00:33:29] <teraflops> NapoleonWils0n: o/
81 [00:33:34] <NapoleonWils0n> debian wiki kvm section seems outdated
82 [00:33:39] <NapoleonWils0n> hi teraflops
83 [00:33:53] <NapoleonWils0n> libvirt-bin package doesnt exist
84 [00:33:56] <teraflops> not the only one sadly
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87 [00:34:26] <NapoleonWils0n> anyone know what the correct package for qemu-kvm and libvirt-bin are
88 [00:34:51] <teraflops> ,v libvirt-bin
89 [00:34:52] <judd> Package: libvirt-bin on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.9.12.3-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 0.9.12.3-1+deb7u2; wheezy-backports: 1.2.9-9+deb8u2~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.2.9-9+deb8u3; jessie-security: 1.2.9-9+deb8u3
90 [00:35:14] <NapoleonWils0n> im on unstable
91 [00:35:28] <NapoleonWils0n> no hits
92 [00:35:35] <teraflops> NapoleonWils0n: well, this channel is mainly for stable
93 [00:35:45] <NapoleonWils0n> sorry my bad guys
94 [00:35:54] <bazhang> NapoleonWils0n, check the topic here
95 [00:35:54] <tw> on stretch, you want libvirt-daemon%
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98 [00:36:04] <tw> but yes, OT.
99 [00:36:05] <NapoleonWils0n> tw cheers mate
100 [00:36:34] <NapoleonWils0n> thought that might be the one, but wasnt sure
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102 [00:37:10] <NapoleonWils0n> switched main main from arch to debian unstable
103 [00:37:13] <NapoleonWils0n> machine
104 [00:37:16] <teraflops> NapoleonWils0n: no worries just saying
105 [00:37:47] <NapoleonWils0n> does that mean all the people here are stable then :)
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107 [00:38:20] <teraflops> NapoleonWils0n: I dont think so xD
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109 [00:38:53] <teraflops> NapoleonWils0n: you can ask about sid in #debian-next at oftc network
110 [00:40:21] <NapoleonWils0n> still getting used to debian names for packages
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112 [00:41:00] <NapoleonWils0n> on arch you have openbsd-netcat on on debian its netcat-openbsd
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115 [00:41:43] <teraflops> what about wpasupplicant?
116 [00:41:45] <teraflops> xD
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133 [00:50:25] <J1sy> How to dual boot debian with win10?
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137 [00:52:36] <teraflops> J1sy: did you make some research before asking here?
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140 [00:54:36] <J1sy> Yup none was useful because win10 bootloader is always kill grub it
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142 [00:55:29] <teraflops> J1sy: then go use the debian iso and reinstall grub
143 [00:55:55] <teraflops> after having win10 installed
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145 [00:56:29] <J1sy> #i installed debian allong side win10 and still on start up win10 load ,no debian
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147 [00:56:49] <teraflops> ok
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149 [00:59:01] <J1sy> Its uselèss to install grub when alway win10 loads even with no hdd installed
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152 [01:01:00] <J1sy> Rule 1 followed-which was to install windows 1st and the linux last
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198 [01:35:13] <crazy7> Can you use KDE software if you are using mate?
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202 [01:36:23] <Brigo> crazy7, yes
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209 [01:45:01] <ghormoon> hi, can I use paths to disks by-id in udev? I currently have the condition as KERNEL="sda" which is not optimal :)
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214 [01:48:17] <crazy7> Is TRIM enabled by default on Debian?
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216 [01:49:47] <tw> crazy7: it isn't. Real-time discards can cause certain SSD models to lock up.
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245 [02:02:28] <crazy7> Is it better to use NTFS if you need to use a hard drive on Windows and Linux?
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251 [02:12:51] <marioxcc> crazy7: The official name of Debian is GNU/Linux. If you use GNU/Linux and Windows in the same computer, use different partitions, and use one Linux-specific (here I mean the kernel) filesystem for Debian GNU/Linux.
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258 [02:20:25] <jair> Hello my friends and family
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262 [02:22:06] <jair> I heard before of an application I could use to test (e.g. port 23) but at the same fashion as ICMP is tested.
263 [02:22:30] <jair> for example if I try to use telnet /msg NickServ identifyit wqill try once and either connect or timeout
264 [02:22:44] <zykotick9> marioxcc: the official name of debian _WAS_ gnu/linux... they dropped the gnu part... 'cause there is debian hurd ya know... and debian kbsd... etc..
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266 [02:22:56] <jair> when I test ICMP it keep retry automatically
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269 [02:23:21] <marioxcc> zykotick9: No. All versions that contain Linux also contain GNU and are called "GNU/Linux".
270 [02:23:31] <marioxcc> Nobody here is talking about the kFreebsd version.
271 [02:23:41] <zykotick9> marioxcc: debian i'm talking - not linux.
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274 [02:24:25] <marioxcc> zykotick9: Whatever. It is not true for the relevant case. There is no "Debian Linux". There is "Debian GNU/Linux" and "Debian kFreeBSD".
275 [02:26:29] <zykotick9> marioxcc: note searching for gnu on replaced-url
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278 [02:27:50] <marioxcc> zykotick9: That does not prove anything. If you are using Debian with Linux, then what you are using is called "Debian GNU/Linux", not "Debian Linux" nor "Debian Hurd".
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282 [02:29:51] <icez> crazy7: FAT and NTFS are likely your best options, although there are windows programs to read Ext filesystems on Windows.
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286 [02:30:30] <zykotick9> marioxcc: if you /whois my nic you'll seem i'm an fsf member. i'm _very_ familiar with the gnu slash linux stuff. debian was at one time called "debian gnu/linux" that was changed a year-or-so ago, i was trying to share this with you, but your rather rude IMO. take care.
287 [02:30:53] <somiaj> crazy7: fat32 (or vfat) has the best native support in both windows and linux, ntfs has support in linux via ntfs-3g so you can access ntfs from both operating systems, additionally windows has ext2/3/4 drivers you can use. Though for a shard drive I think vfat is the best as the other cases one of the os doesn't support all the file system features.
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289 [02:31:41] <marioxcc> zykotick9: Do a text search for "Debian GNU/Linux" in replaced-url
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291 [02:31:52] <marioxcc> It's the latest install manual.
292 [02:32:00] <marioxcc> I'm not trying to be rude.
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294 [02:32:35] <somiaj> crazy7: note here I'm assuming a shard partition/filesystem for the data. You should use ntfs to isntall windows and ext? (or another *nix filesystem) to install debian.
295 [02:34:47] <awal1> zykotick9, as I know we have debian: gnu/linux, gnu/kfreebsd and gnu/hurd
296 [02:34:52] <awal1> that's all :P
297 [02:35:40] <awal1> not debian linux, debian kfreebsd, debian hurd
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299 [02:36:35] <somiaj> it appears that zykotick9 is informing us of a change in the naming that is fairly recent, this will take time to propgate through all the docs, etc
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304 [02:38:16] <awal1> gnu userland + linux kernel = debian gnu/linux; gnu userland + freebsd kernel = debian gnu/kfreebsd; gnu userland + hurd kernel = debian gnu/hurd
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306 [02:40:04] <awal1> I don't understand why the naming will change referring just to the kernel
307 [02:40:15] <marioxcc> Yes, that's my point.
308 [02:40:39] <awal1> what about non kernel stuff?
309 [02:40:51] <zykotick9> awal1: sorry, i didn't mean no more GNU, i meant "debian" is just "debian", it's not "Debian gnu/linux" anymore <- because of the alternative kernels available.
310 [02:40:54] <awal1> gnu userland, I mean
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314 [02:42:30] <marioxcc> zykotick9: But it is called "GNU/Linux" in the FAQ: replaced-url
315 [02:43:18] <ghormoon> hi, how to make sysctl apply rules when the paths are available? I have set net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-iptables = 0 but it doesn't apply on boot, if I run manually sysctl -p later it works
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318 [02:44:13] <somiaj> ghormoon: have you tried /etc/sysctl.conf or an indvidual *.conf file in /etc/sysctl.d/
319 [02:44:20] <ghormoon> sysctl.conf
320 [02:44:25] <marioxcc> zykotick9: Do you have a link to an official announcement? I'm genuinously interested.
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322 [02:45:01] <somiaj> ghormoon: what is loaded that makes that available, if it is part of your interfaces file you can use postup scripts, you can also set things up like that in unit files.
323 [02:45:26] <awal1> zykotick9, I understood you since the beginning, I'm not aware about the naming change; but I think that the naming "debian gnu/kernel-variant" should continue, bcoz that is the correct one
324 [02:45:45] <zykotick9> marioxcc: i went looking/searching, couldn't find anything... i also waybackmachined debian.org but didn't easily find gnu/linux mentioned... replaced-url
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326 [02:46:10] <ghormoon> I think some kernel module maybe?
327 [02:46:18] <ghormoon> or maybe with first bridge?
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329 [02:46:42] <marioxcc> zykotick9: I see. That page implies the name "Debian GNU/Linux", though: "A large part of the basic tools that fill out the operating system come from the GNU project; hence the names: GNU/Linux, GNU/kFreeBSD, and GNU/Hurd. These tools are also free."
330 [02:46:55] <somiaj> ghormoon: sounds like something you may want to put in a postup script for your network.
331 [02:47:26] <marioxcc> At least that's how I interpret it. It is not absolutely clear about what is the name of the OS.
332 [02:47:26] <awal1> uname -a ---» Linux my-user 4.9.0-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.13-1 (2017-02-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
333 [02:47:35] <ghormoon> sound like something I don't even wanna load in the kernel in the first place, but I dodn't find a separate moule that would cause it :)
334 [02:47:54] <tw> ghormoon: do you have bridge in your modules.conf?
335 [02:48:46] <ghormoon> no, only msr and 8021q
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339 [02:49:48] <ghormoon> I'll add it and see next boot
340 [02:49:50] <tw> if you don't have the module loaded, you can ignore the sysctl, but if you are using bridging, like with kvm or indirectly through libvirt, then you may want to load the module earlier..
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343 [02:50:16] <tw> Or you can blacklist it and see what fails to come up.
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345 [02:50:19] <ghormoon> yeah, I use bridges for VMs and they get cut out because of that
346 [02:50:29] <ghormoon> sysctl -p fixes that
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348 [02:50:48] <somiaj> ghormoon: you configure your bridge through the interfaces file?
349 [02:50:53] <ghormoon> yes
350 [02:51:07] <ghormoon> if this won't fix it, I'll do post-up script
351 [02:51:10] <ghormoon> bu that sound wron
352 [02:51:36] <somiaj> ghormoon: you could just add a post-up (or postup) line to your interfaces file with that sysctl command,
353 [02:52:28] <ghormoon> ok, if next reboot it wont work with bridge in modules.conf, I'll do that
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374 [03:13:18] <marioxcc> How can I manually trigger DHCP configuration in Debian 8?
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376 [03:13:46] <somiaj> depends on how you configure your network, but you can run dhclient directly on the interface
377 [03:15:10] <marioxcc> somiaj: Ok, thanks.
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394 [03:21:45] <marioxcc> What branch of Debian do you use or recommend for a workstation, stable, testing or unstable?
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397 [03:23:40] <somiaj> stable, unless you really want to debug issue with the next release of debian.
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400 [03:24:36] <somiaj> during the freeze though switching to stretch before the release isn't to bad if you can deal with low security support.
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427 [03:38:27] <memeka> where can i find -dbg debs for stretch?
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440 [03:42:29] <j4ckcom> what is xz?
441 [03:43:02] <camh> j4ckcom: try typing "what is xz" into a search engine
442 [03:43:22] <j4ckcom> yes, but there is no result :(
443 [03:43:24] <j4ckcom> camh:
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445 [03:44:13] <camh> ok. i'll be more specific. try typing it into google
446 [03:44:41] <j4ckcom> thanks :)
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451 [03:46:11] <camh> j4ckcom: out of curiosity, what search engine gave no results? bing and duckduckgo also gave the answer as the first hit
452 [03:46:38] <j4ckcom> googlo.com
453 [03:46:46] <j4ckcom> there is no result
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457 [03:47:34] <j4ckcom> camh:
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460 [03:47:59] <camh> googlo.com is not a search engine. google.com does give a result. I'm not sure why you dont see it. xz is a compression format/program
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462 [03:48:45] <j4ckcom> ok then how can uncompress it?
463 [03:48:47] <j4ckcom> camh:
464 [03:49:43] <camh> apt-cache search xz
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466 [03:50:20] <honaalz> hi, i've a question but not really debian related, are any software/apps/packages with a version number starting with a "0", like "0.11.2", considered as beta?
467 [03:50:52] <camh> honaalz: version numbers are pretty much meaningless, except that they go up
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469 [03:52:03] <th_> only if the developer says its beta :D
470 [03:52:19] <honaalz> true but isnt there is some sort of convention? like 1.0, 2.0... for big release, 1.1 for updates, 1.0.1 for bugfixes?
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473 [03:52:41] <camh> some people think there's a convention. those who don't do not follow it
474 [03:53:12] <camh> e.g. the linux kernel gets a new "major" version number when the "minor" one starts getting too big
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476 [03:54:31] <honaalz> hmmm I see
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480 [03:56:58] <somiaj> Note with the release of 3.0 the old number version changed
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482 [03:57:17] <somiaj> it use to be even numbers stable, odd numbers devel branch, 2.2 vs 2.3, 2.4, etc
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487 [04:00:37] <somiaj> honaalz: now it is the releases are X.Y, with some of those releases given long term support (which means they get bug fixes, some hardware backports, some featue backports, but this is raree. and as camh said, after the second number gets big they roll over, but besides for that it is about regular releases in order.
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492 [04:02:32] <honaalz> got it! thank you
493 [04:02:38] <foul_owl> Hi folks. smplayer changes monitors when I try and make it full screen
494 [04:03:24] <somiaj> foul_owl: what de/wm are you using?
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513 [04:20:29] <j4ckcom> i can extract xz file with this command? tar -xJf file.pkg.tar.xz
514 [04:20:47] <tw> you can just use tar xf file.pkg.tar.xz
515 [04:20:59] <tw> tar will do the right thing.
516 [04:21:11] <tw> cf is a different story though.
517 [04:24:40] <foul_owl> fluxbox
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519 [04:26:43] <somiaj> foul_owl: might be how fluxbox is dealing with multihead setup, I would ask in a fluxbox specific channel for better help on that.
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544 [04:47:10] <foul_owl> Thank you
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551 [04:51:00] <girlSmile> Milo & Joe Rogan On "The Jews" ( replaced-url
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672 [06:06:00] <jasonwc> Hello everyone. In order to support a rootfs on ZFS, I needed to install Grub from Unstable (using this howto - replaced-url
673 [06:06:00] <jasonwc> this issue without upgrading to Stretch?
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675 [06:07:05] <somiaj> you don't want to just install unstable packages on stable. You can try to compile/backport that package to jessie, though for zfsonlinux you may want to upgrade to stretch or wait to the release to use it.
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680 [06:08:22] <jasonwc> somiaj Any way to check if I can build grub from stretch on jessie?
681 [06:08:27] <jasonwc> that seems like the best solution
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686 [06:09:17] <jasonwc> Build-Depends dependency for grub cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package debhelper can't satisfy version requirements
687 [06:09:20] <jasonwc> guess not :/
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704 [06:19:30] <kion> I am trying to install Gnome-desktop and my apt says E Unable to locate package gnome-desktop any ideas?
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706 [06:20:00] <jasonwc> kion sudo apt install gnome
707 [06:20:33] <kion> jasonwc, sudo apt-get install gnome?
708 [06:20:42] <jasonwc> both will work
709 [06:20:51] <kion> do you know what is the windows manager of gnome?
710 [06:20:55] <jasonwc> Jessie allows you to use "apt" which offers newer features
711 [06:21:13] <jasonwc> gnome is the new pseudo-package
712 [06:21:42] <jasonwc> replaced-url
713 [06:21:52] <jasonwc> That's what a quick google search shows
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715 [06:23:29] <kion> thanks jasonwc
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717 [06:24:36] <somiaj> ,check-backport grub
718 [06:24:37] <judd> Backporting package grub in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie, jessie-backports.
719 [06:24:52] <somiaj> jasonwc: there is a newer debconf (version 10) in jessie-backport)
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728 [06:28:10] <j4ckcom> how can i update debian?
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731 [06:29:32] <somiaj> j4ckcom: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
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734 [06:29:45] <somiaj> j4ckcom: I assume you mean just keep up to date on security fixes
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737 [06:30:37] <j4ckcom> apt update && apt -y full-upgrade. <— this is ok?
738 [06:30:40] <apt> that's too long, j4ckcom
739 [06:30:54] <j4ckcom> i m ok
740 [06:30:59] <j4ckcom> apt update && apt -y full-upgrade <— it is ok?
741 [06:31:00] <apt> j4ckcom: what are you talking about?
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743 [06:31:28] <j4ckcom> apt update && apt -y full-upgrade <— i can update debian with this command?
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746 [06:33:01] <theartificial> Installed debian on my desktop and it defaults to my discrete graphics card (nouveau). I want it to use my integrated graphics (i965). How do I do so?
747 [06:33:25] <j4ckcom> apt update && apt -y full-upgrade <— i can update debian with this command?
748 [06:33:58] <somiaj> for apt it is dist-upgrade, and on a stable system upgrade should be sufficent for most things (though sometimes a dist-ugprade is needed)
749 [06:34:47] <j4ckcom> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade. <—— then it is ok? somiaj ?
750 [06:35:13] <somiaj> theartificial: you can blacklist the nouveau module and see if it forces the intel one to load, you can also write you own xorg.conf file to force it to use the intel driver, additionally you might be able to just disable the nvidia card in the bios
751 [06:35:20] <somiaj> j4ckcom: that is what I originally said, try it.
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754 [06:35:28] <j4ckcom> ok thanks
755 [06:37:14] <jasonwc> somiaj: If I can't satisfy the build-depends for grub-pc, I assume that means I can't recompile grub-pc on Jessie without guessing which dependencies are real, and which are fake.
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757 [06:38:12] <j4ckcom> Ign replaced-url
758 [06:38:21] <somiaj> jasonwc: you need some of the build-depends from jessie-backports. It seems it is just a debconf issue, you could manually revert the build depends too maybe.
759 [06:38:33] <somiaj> j4ckcom: nothing is wrong from what you shared.
760 [06:38:43] <j4ckcom> ok
761 [06:38:45] <j4ckcom> thanks
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766 [06:41:51] <theartificial> Is there a file with a list of packages explicitly installed?
767 [06:42:04] <somiaj> theartificial: do you mean manual only packages?
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770 [06:42:35] <somiaj> theartificial: aptitude search ~i shows all installed packages, the auto installed ones have an 'A' next to them, you can isolate them that way, there is also a way to search only manual with aptitude.
771 [06:43:14] <theartificial> I want to be have a list of packages that I installed (not system, not deps) so I can install them on another computer
772 [06:43:30] <theartificial> I want both computers to have the same packages actually.
773 [06:43:44] <somiaj> !aptitude clone
774 [06:43:44] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
775 [06:44:22] <theartificial> Well thats conveniant
776 [06:44:35] <somiaj> that gives you the full list, but it will preserve the auto install flag on the new machine.
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780 [06:46:27] <theartificial> is there a method of installing from the file?
781 [06:46:37] <theartificial> nvm
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786 [06:48:13] <theartificial> somiaj: Thanks!
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791 [06:52:37] <jasonwc> somiaj: replaced-url
792 [06:52:52] <jasonwc> somiaj: Shouldn't that install the dependencies from jessie-backports?
793 [06:53:47] <somiaj> unsure why it is trying to install gcc-6
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795 [06:54:13] <somiaj> I haven't tried to backport grub, I'm just going off the bot says it is possible with jessie + jessie-backports, but you may have to be sure you only get what you need from jessie-backports, not everything
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797 [06:55:20] <theartificial> Rebooted into my system and there was badness lol
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801 [06:56:39] <jasonwc> somiaj: Does the bot say what specific package is needed from backports?
802 [06:56:44] <somiaj> nope
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835 [07:19:13] <somiaj> jasonwc: my advise, though most likely not the solution you want, is wait until stretch is released, I still think zfs on linux is relatively new to be used as the root filesystem.
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891 [07:52:25] <zZap-X> what kernel version will debian stretch use?
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893 [07:54:23] <nkuttler> ,kernels
894 [07:54:24] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.10.0-rc6-686-pae (4.10~rc6-1~exp2); sid: 4.9.0-2-686 (4.9.13-1); stretch: 4.9.0-1-686-pae (4.9.6-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.9.2-2~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.84-2)
895 [07:54:44] <zZap-X> nkuttler: 4.9 ?
896 [07:54:58] <zZap-X> so does that mean kernel 4.9 will have 6 years worth of updates?
897 [07:55:05] <zZap-X> once stretch is released
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900 [07:56:00] <zZap-X> and Ben Hutchings will be the maintainer?
901 [07:56:44] <jelly> someone is going to be the maintainer, not necessarily one person the whole time
902 [07:57:02] <zZap-X> jelly: but it will have 6 years worth of updates?
903 [07:57:06] <zZap-X> replaced-url
904 [07:57:16] <zZap-X> just like 3.16 has?
905 [07:57:23] <zZap-X> what jessie uses
906 [07:57:48] <jelly> zZap-X: 5 years is likely
907 [07:57:52] <zZap-X> i dont use debian but i like to use the same kernels because of the long update cycle
908 [07:58:01] <zZap-X> nice
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911 [07:58:27] <zZap-X> jelly: because stretch is frozen, does that mean it will use the 4.9 kernel or could that still change?
912 [07:58:53] <phre4k> hi, I can't see past systemd logs with journalctl -b-1, there's no /var/log/journal, should I really use Storage=persistent in /etc/systemd/journald.conf or is Debian handling this in another way? see also: replaced-url
913 [07:59:04] <jelly> zZap-X: the choice of kernel version to track for stretch was done even before the freeze I think
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915 [07:59:26] <zZap-X> jelly: so stretch will use kernel 4.9 branch
916 [07:59:56] <somiaj> zZap-X: stretch is going with 4.9, the date of the freeze was adjusted to try to correspond to a lts kernel release
917 [08:00:21] <zZap-X> excellent, i will upgrade my slackware kernel to 4.9
918 [08:00:25] <somiaj> this was kinda guess work on the date/actuall lts kernel release, but last I heard it was 4.9, which got into debian shortly before the freeze.
919 [08:00:39] <somiaj> check kernel.org for info about the lts releases
920 [08:00:49] <zZap-X> somiaj: replaced-url
921 [08:00:58] <zZap-X> at the moment 4.9 EOL is Jan 2019
922 [08:01:15] <zZap-X> so that number will change when stretch is released?
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924 [08:01:35] <somiaj> phre4k: afiak you may not need Storage=persistant, it defaults to storge=auto, so if you create the directory /var/log/journal it should start giving you persitant journals.
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926 [08:02:24] <somiaj> zZap-X: That is kernel.org end date, note that the debian matainer is still mataining older kernels, that may update as that date gets closer and the control is passed on.
927 [08:03:01] <somiaj> zZap-X: but here I'm unsure, but that is my guess, as kenrel.org and those mataining the newer kernels stop mataining the older one, the debian kernel team should pick up the slack.
928 [08:03:27] <somiaj> (also might depend what other distros choose to use for their lts releaes, though I think centos is one of the few that has long standing stable releases like debian)
929 [08:03:58] <zZap-X> somiaj: kernel 3.16 EOL seems correct for Jessie
930 [08:04:27] <somiaj> including jessie-lts, I think the dates get adjusted as someone steps up to matain it for longer.
931 [08:04:35] <zZap-X> yes thats what i thought
932 [08:04:37] <zZap-X> ace
933 [08:04:57] <zZap-X> time to upgrade to 4.9.x branch :D
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963 [08:23:38] <theartificial> So I rebooted after upgrading and gnome didnt start. Went straight to a clean tty1
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965 [08:24:08] <somiaj> maybe something with the display manager, you could try and run startx
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969 [08:24:37] <theartificial> somiaj: `-bash: startx: command not found` uhh
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973 [08:25:16] <somiaj> well seems you don't have xinit installed for some reason.
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977 [08:26:23] <theartificial> Why would it uninstall though
978 [08:26:59] <theartificial> It seems quite a few packages have gone missing
979 [08:27:13] <theartificial> aptitude doesnt work and neither is nmtui
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982 [08:28:32] <somiaj> what version of debian are you running? What did you upgrade/too from?
983 [08:28:58] <theartificial> stretch
984 [08:29:02] <theartificial> from jessie
985 [08:29:23] <somiaj> did you have any unoffical packages installed?
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987 [08:29:45] <theartificial> Well I ran the aptitude clone to get the same packages from my laptop.
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990 [08:30:11] <jelly> theartificial: assuming you kept logs with "script", you'll be able to look at those and see which packages got removed and at which point
991 [08:30:27] <somiaj> well that will only work for the same version of debian, jessie and stretch have packages that have changed, so in this case you can't take a jessie list and expect to get the full capability installing that list on stretch.
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993 [08:30:36] <theartificial> jelly: how do I do so
994 [08:30:42] <phre4k> somiaj: is there a specific way (ACLs?) I have to create /var/log/journal?
995 [08:31:01] <somiaj> phre4k: I think mkdir /var/log/journal is enough, unsure if you have to give it permisions or it fixes itself.
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997 [08:31:43] <somiaj> phre4k: drwxr-sr-x+ 3 root systemd-journal 4096 Feb 20 00:43 /var/log/journal/
998 [08:31:51] <phre4k> somiaj: replaced-url
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1000 [08:32:08] <phre4k> sorry, forgot to explain: had the steps necessary, I think
1001 [08:32:25] <phre4k> at least it created some files now
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1005 [08:32:57] <somiaj> I just used mkdir /var/log/journal and it worked here due to the Storage=auto default, I forget if I had to adjust the permsions or not. I think I might have
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1011 [08:36:04] <phre4k> somiaj: thanks for your help :) cu
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1021 [08:42:31] <lindylex> I did a system update and now LXDE does not start.
1022 [08:42:42] <lindylex> Where do I start?
1023 [08:43:08] <somiaj> lindylex: do you boot up to a tty or just a black screen (seeing if it could be a display manager or driver issue)
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1025 [08:43:16] <somiaj> so give us more info about 'does not start'
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1027 [08:44:00] <lindylex> It book up to the console where I can enter my user name and password.
1028 [08:44:13] <somiaj> what happens if you type startx
1029 [08:44:18] <somiaj> after you login
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1033 [08:46:47] <lindylex> Last stanza disspayed on the screen "Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/zorg.conf.d" No GUI.
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1046 [08:51:02] <somiaj> check /var/log/Xorg.0.log and look for errors
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1053 [08:53:47] <lindylex> somiaj: replaced-url
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1062 [08:57:40] <somiaj> is that all the log file says?
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1065 [08:58:13] <lindylex> yes
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1070 [08:59:45] <somiaj> I don't see any clear error, but my huntch is something to do with systemd/logind.
1071 [08:59:55] <somiaj> I can't say much more than that.
1072 [09:00:01] <somiaj> did you try to run this as your normal user or root?
1073 [09:00:28] <lindylex> normal
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1078 [09:01:28] <somiaj> well look at what the upgrade did, did it remove any packages and the likes, but I'm not seeing any clear error that says this is what I think your issue is
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1084 [09:02:34] <lindylex> brb
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1098 [09:09:10] <lindylex> somiaj: I decided I will just reboot. And now I am stuck at the partition part. The installer says "...file system with type ext4 in scsi2 (0,0,0), pertition #5 (sdb) at / failed"
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1101 [09:10:36] <somiaj> lindylex: sounds like you have some more problems, I don't think I can really help debug this from here. But if it isn't booting you may need some live image to recover from.
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1103 [09:11:17] <lindylex> This is a problem with the installer. The Windows O.S. start up fine.
1104 [09:11:43] <somiaj> installer? This isn't an actual install? What installer are you using?
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1106 [09:12:18] <lindylex> I have a Debian O.S. installer on a usb stick I am trying to use to re install Debian.
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1108 [09:13:23] <somiaj> how did you put the installer onto the usb stick?
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1110 [09:14:02] <lindylex> Manually with multiple O.S. on there. I have used it many times.
1111 [09:14:32] <somiaj> well, sounds like something isn't set up right.
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1136 [09:26:02] <welpo> In sources.list: is a line with 'jessie-updates' and another one with 'stable/updates' the same?
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1138 [09:26:33] <mebus> Hi! How can I fix this: replaced-url
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1159 [09:34:43] <Shadow_7_> dpkg sources.list
1160 [09:34:53] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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1164 [09:36:57] <Shadow_7_> mebus: do you have strange ppa type thing in your sources.list? or otherwise missing the jessie-updates item?
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1166 [09:38:16] <mebus> Shadow_7_: I only got: deb replaced-url
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1169 [09:39:18] <Shadow_7_> This isn't the raspbian support channel. But it should have much of the same entries with raspbian mirrors.
1170 [09:39:25] <mebus> "files list file for package `libc6-dev:armhf' contains empty filename" - !?
1171 [09:39:46] <mebus> Shadow_7_: people in raspbian treat me as a noob. takes to long to tell them about the problem.
1172 [09:40:18] <Shadow_7_> The pi B and older models are arm v.6 which is debian armel compatible.
1173 [09:40:28] <Shadow_7_> armhf is v.7 and up
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1175 [09:40:42] <Shadow_7_> Which the latest pi is compatible with, but the older ones are not
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1177 [09:41:07] <Shadow_7_> armel is v.4+ but < v.7
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1179 [09:41:35] <Shadow_7_> although I guess would run on v.7 just fine, but slow since software float, not HF
1180 [09:42:12] <mebus> "ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l)"
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1182 [09:42:16] <mebus> that means?
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1184 [09:43:02] <Shadow_7_> idk, only have a B (not even B+). The 64 bit pi is v.7+
1185 [09:44:07] <mebus> how can I resolve this: " files list file for package `libc6-dev:armhf' contains empty filename" !?
1186 [09:44:09] <Shadow_7_> Anyway that error is common for missing (or extra) sources.list entries.
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1189 [09:44:24] <Shadow_7_> mebus: apt-get update?
1190 [09:44:39] <Shadow_7_> perhaps DNS is broken and it's not updating
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1192 [09:44:48] <Shadow_7_> or you fat fingered a repo
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1194 [09:45:37] <mebus> dns is ok.
1195 [09:46:02] <Shadow_7_> you might try to leave off the :armhf part
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1197 [09:47:18] <Shadow_7_> it only means something if you've setup multi-arch
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1199 [09:47:38] <jelly> mebus: it's an issue with your distro's apt, ask in #raspbian please
1200 [09:47:41] <somiaj> welpo: jessie-updates and jessie/updates are not the same. Now jessie vs stable are almost the same with a small issue, stable will change and point ot stretch in the future, jessie will always point to jessie
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1202 [09:48:02] <welpo> thanks somiaj and Shadow_7_
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1205 [09:49:38] <jelly> Shadow_7: you can still help mebus if you want to, just do it in the correct channel
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1210 [09:50:27] <Shadow_7> not in #raspbian. And haven't turned on my pi in over a month. Plus found debian armel a much more pleasant experience on the pi B.
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1212 [09:51:31] <Shadow_7> nfs not even as a module on an embedded system with 512MB of ram. Noobs.
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1305 [10:30:10] <dionysus69> why do I get segmentation fault when I run arp-scan command?
1306 [10:30:36] <dionysus69> i supply interface name from ifconfig list
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1309 [10:31:23] <tdn> Is there a tried and true, safe way of resizing an encrypted LUKS volume on LVM and md raid1 in Debian 8? I need to grow the size. Or is the safe way to back up all data. Then repartition and copy data back?
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1336 [10:44:55] <jelly> tdn: understanding the layers and order of growing from bottom to top ought to make it safe enough, barring bugs
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1342 [10:46:19] <tdn> jelly, I am looking for a described process. A HOWTO or something like that.
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1346 [10:46:49] <velix> Is /tmp/ in Debian mounted to tmpfs ?
1347 [10:46:49] <bezaban> it should be safe enough, especially growing. The luks part is transparent iirc. However, any operation on filesystems with data you don't want to lose should be preceded by a backup
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1353 [10:50:59] <tdn> bezaban, I have a backup. What I am most worried about is doing the operation having everything appearantly go fine but then finding out that something did not go right and filesystem or LUKS become corrupted. Like, say, if I resized to over the physical size or something like that
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1355 [10:51:36] <jelly> tdn: the process will vary based on the order of layers in your particular setup
1356 [10:51:53] <bezaban> tdn: yeah, you need to resize the lvm and then grow the filesystem, of course you need to stay within the boundaries of the drive
1357 [10:52:05] <CeBe> velix: by default it is not, but afair there is some fallback to tmpfs if the disk is full on boot.
1358 [10:52:08] <bezaban> hm. can the layers be ordered differently+
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1360 [10:52:12] <jelly> yes
1361 [10:52:19] <bezaban> yay, more complexity
1362 [10:52:41] <jelly> I have md raid with LVs as members. Because.
1363 [10:52:46] <tdn> jelly, the order is the normal order that is done when installing debian with encrypted luks and lvm via the installer
1364 [10:52:49] <bezaban> oh, I see
1365 [10:52:55] <jelly> reasons!
1366 [10:53:00] <velix> CeBe: thx
1367 [10:53:10] <tdn> jelly, raid is done via md. Also via the installer
1368 [10:53:19] <jelly> tdn: I have no idea what the "normal" order results in, sorry
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1371 [10:53:29] <jelly> tdn: lsblk output will be of help
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1374 [10:54:30] <tdn> jelly, lsblk --> replaced-url
1375 [10:54:58] <jelly> something sane might look like: disks <- partitions <- md <- luks <- lvm(pv) <- lvm(lv) <- filesystem
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1378 [10:56:27] <jelly> and you have first lvm, _then_ luks
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1381 [10:57:17] <tdn> jelly, why is it more sane to have LVM inside LUKS instead of LUKS inside LVM?
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1383 [10:57:30] <tdn> jelly, please note that I have a few volumes in LVM that is NOT encrypted.
1384 [10:57:51] <jelly> tdn: and what are you triyng to grow?
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1387 [10:58:39] <jelly> (it's slightly easier to have FDE with luks first, then use that as LVM PV so that all the LVs inside are crypted)
1388 [10:58:46] <tdn> jelly, the encrypted volume of 1 TB.
1389 [10:58:56] <jelly> tdn: using which free space?
1390 [10:59:27] <tdn> jelly, first I need to shrink the clear data volume to make space
1391 [10:59:49] <jelly> right
1392 [11:00:15] <jelly> then you don't have a lot of layers to deal with for the grow process, just lv and luks and filesystem
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1395 [11:01:06] <jelly> tdn: shrinking is messier than growing btw. Need to be done offline for ext4 (unmounted).
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1397 [11:01:35] <jelly> and is done from top to bottom
1398 [11:02:06] <jelly> so roughly: umount, fsck -f, resize2fs, then lvresize
1399 [11:02:20] <tdn> jelly, by offline you mean just umount the ext4 fs, right? That is no problem
1400 [11:02:21] <jelly> also it's fucking slow
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1403 [11:03:03] <tdn> jelly, I have a 4 TB USB disk. Would it be better, faster, safer to just copy everything onto that and then recreate partitions, etc. and copy back?
1404 [11:03:28] <jelly> tdn: how much of that clear fs is in use?
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1406 [11:04:01] <tdn> jelly, right now 95 %, but I am cleaning up and hoping to get to about 80 % usage.
1407 [11:04:07] <tdn> So about 100 GB free now
1408 [11:04:07] <jelly> ouch
1409 [11:04:25] <tdn> jelly, my hope is to increase crypt to 1200 GB
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1413 [11:04:50] <tdn> Or maybe I should just buy bigger disks...
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1421 [11:05:45] <jelly> anectodal data: with about 50% used, shrinking with resize2fs took about 4 times as much time as it would take top copy everything somewhere else, repartition, reformat and put back
1422 [11:05:56] <tdn> jelly, yikes
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1425 [11:07:57] <jelly> also the files get defragmented with a "backup, reformat, restore" cycle which is useful if you still have HDD media
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1431 [11:10:56] <tdn> jelly, this is still HDD
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1438 [11:15:46] <jelly> tdn: what I'd do is backup and lvremove the filesystem planned to be shrunk, grow the lv, luks and filesystem that needs growing, then recreate and restore the other one
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1440 [11:16:10] <tdn> jelly, ok
1441 [11:17:34] <jelly> but I'm reasonably comfortable doing it, having grown luks at home a couple times now
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1444 [11:20:13] <tdn> jelly, ok. Thanks for input. I will sit down at write down a plan to prepare.
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1554 [12:17:02] <hroi> hi
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1557 [12:19:11] <hroi> the libopencv shipping with debian 8.6 and 8.7 (at least) throws a message to stderr - because /dev/raw1493 (firewire) device is not available
1558 [12:19:39] <hroi> it really shouldn't throw an error -- I think this is a but in the library shipped with deb
1559 [12:19:43] <hroi> *bug
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1582 [12:31:19] <rgr> looking for some help with wifi in a brand new stretch install on #debian-next if anyone has the time.
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1595 [12:45:43] <CeBe> hrob: why do you think it is a debian issue and not a bug in opencv?
1596 [12:46:25] <hrob> CeBe, yes it is a but in opencv
1597 [12:46:45] <hrob> with version used in debian package
1598 [12:46:52] <hrob> *gug
1599 [12:46:55] <hrob> *bug
1600 [12:47:04] <CeBe> hrob: so it is fixed in a newer version?
1601 [12:47:09] <hrob> yes
1602 [12:47:15] <CeBe> do you know in which?
1603 [12:47:20] <hrob> Ubuntu uses one minor version newer
1604 [12:47:32] <CeBe> ,v opencv
1605 [12:47:33] <judd> No package named 'opencv' was found in amd64.
1606 [12:47:46] <hrob> although, opencv is a big thing with many dependencies
1607 [12:48:02] <hrob> so could be bug in dependency of opencv or how opencv uses that dependencies
1608 [12:48:15] <hrob> judd - libopencv-dev
1609 [12:48:18] <hrob> typically
1610 [12:48:21] <CeBe> ,v libopencv-dev
1611 [12:48:22] <judd> Package: libopencv-dev on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.3.1-11+deb7u1; jessie: 2.4.9.1+dfsg-1+deb8u1; sid: 2.4.9.1+dfsg1-1; stretch: 2.4.9.1+dfsg1-1; experimental: 3.1.0+dfsg-1~exp2+b1
1612 [12:48:55] <hrob> the wheezy one is probably good
1613 [12:49:22] <Keitaro> hello all
1614 [12:49:52] <Keitaro> someone know what is the command in debian to test an authentification against active directory ?
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1620 [12:50:34] <hrob> ok, actually opencv itself is 2.4.9.1+dfsg-1.5ubuntu1 on ubuntu
1621 [12:50:48] <hrob> so same ad debian -- I must have been checking libdc1439
1622 [12:51:32] <CeBe> hrob: does the problem occur on ubuntu?
1623 [12:51:37] <hrob> no
1624 [12:51:49] <hrob> let me show you the lib
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1626 [12:52:36] <CeBe> ,v libdc1394-22
1627 [12:52:37] <judd> Package: libdc1394-22 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.2.0-2; jessie: 2.2.3-1; stretch: 2.2.5-1; sid: 2.2.5-1
1628 [12:52:40] <hrob> its this dependency x-gnu/libdc1394.so
1629 [12:53:00] <CeBe> which version does ubuntu have?
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1631 [12:53:11] <hrob> 2.2.4-1
1632 [12:53:24] <hrob> hmm...
1633 [12:53:32] <hrob> so its probably just libdc
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1636 [12:53:47] <hrob> libdc acts like every computer should have a firewire device
1637 [12:53:51] <hrob> and fails to initialize
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1642 [12:55:06] <hrob> libdc1394 error: Failed to initialize libdc1394
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1644 [12:57:09] <hrob> it's an annoying error, and not even an error
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1646 [12:58:20] <CeBe> hrob: I do not have this error on jessie... but I have seen it on other instances
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1648 [12:59:53] <hrob> it's something that follows including
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1650 [13:00:22] <CeBe> it is fine on my desktop machine, but I get "libdc1394 error: Failed to initialize libdc1394" output on my gitlab CI
1651 [13:00:26] <hrob> #include <opencv2/core/core.hpp>
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1653 [13:00:41] <hrob> #include <opencv2/imgproc/imgproc.hpp>
1654 [13:00:47] <hrob> probably the improc one
1655 [13:01:04] <hrob> wants to use firewire cameras as input device
1656 [13:01:13] <RebelCoder> Hey guys, is there an OpenBox or LXQt ISOs of Debian ?
1657 [13:01:22] <RebelCoder> I can;t seem to find any on the website...
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1659 [13:01:34] <tx> get the minimal ISO and use aptitude to install it
1660 [13:01:45] <CeBe> hrob: on the CI it happens on debian jessie but not on sid or stretch
1661 [13:01:46] <tx> I don't think there are official ones
1662 [13:01:49] <RebelCoder> Was going to do that. Just wondering...
1663 [13:01:54] <hrob> CeBe, hmm why does gitlab need opencv
1664 [13:01:55] <tx> there are variants that offer that OOTB
1665 [13:02:05] <RebelCoder> Thanks
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1667 [13:02:22] <jelly> RebelCoder: no, and lxqt will only be in next release
1668 [13:02:24] <CeBe> hrob: I am running tests for my program on a gitlab CI system. that runs debian in a docker container
1669 [13:02:33] <CeBe> my program uses opencv
1670 [13:02:40] <j4ckcom> how can i unzip zip file? :)
1671 [13:02:52] <tx> Not sure if I will get burnt with a flamethrower here for suggesting debian-derivatives that integrate openbox
1672 [13:02:54] <jelly> j4ckcom: install "unzip" and use it
1673 [13:02:58] <tx> google it if you want it :P
1674 [13:03:06] <j4ckcom> how can i use jelly ?
1675 [13:03:09] <hrob> CeBe, ah ok
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1677 [13:03:40] <j4ckcom> apt-get install unzip —> unzip file-name?
1678 [13:03:41] <jelly> j4ckcom: open a terminal, type "man unzip", read the docs
1679 [13:03:42] <j4ckcom> ok jelly ?
1680 [13:03:44] <hrob> perhaps I should recommend using a PPA of opencv
1681 [13:03:53] <RebelCoder> jelly, there are instructions for both, LXQt and OpenBox on the website
1682 [13:04:06] <RebelCoder> which one is the the lightest on RAM and CPU you think ?
1683 [13:04:09] <RebelCoder> OpenBox ?
1684 [13:04:11] <CeBe> hrob: I assume it is fixed in libdc1394-22 2.2.5
1685 [13:04:24] <jelly> RebelCoder: which website?
1686 [13:04:27] <hrob> CeBe, right or just upgrade libdc
1687 [13:04:28] <RebelCoder> Debian
1688 [13:04:37] <jelly> what's the actual link?
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1690 [13:04:59] <RebelCoder> jelly, replaced-url
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1692 [13:05:32] <RebelCoder> jelly, ahh my fault...
1693 [13:05:40] <RebelCoder> only in unstable + Deb 9
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1695 [13:05:48] <RebelCoder> So will go for OpenBOX I guess
1696 [13:05:51] <RebelCoder> or try both
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1700 [13:07:26] <j4ckcom> how can i move folder including co ntent?
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1705 [13:08:27] <j4ckcom> :)
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1707 [13:08:55] <j4ckcom> help me debian specialist
1708 [13:09:11] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip )
1709 [13:09:46] <CeBe> j4ckcom: man mv
1710 [13:10:23] <missmbob> google linux mv
1711 [13:10:43] <j4ckcom> i need direct help from debian specialist
1712 [13:10:55] <j4ckcom> :)
1713 [13:11:18] <missmbob> you've been helped. we expect you to learn and help yourself
1714 [13:11:28] <CeBe> j4ckcom: type man mv in a terminal and read
1715 [13:11:52] <jelly> j4ckcom: you actually need some beginner-level course in linux command line.
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1720 [13:12:22] <j4ckcom> 😰
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1722 [13:12:39] <missmbob> it's not hard. google it and you'll find plenty of free ones
1723 [13:12:40] <jelly> j4ckcom: one of those: replaced-url
1724 [13:13:01] <j4ckcom> thanks
1725 [13:13:09] <j4ckcom> 😅
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1728 [13:14:28] <tx> anyone remember linuxgym?
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1735 [13:16:58] <inviz> i am a bit baffled, on debian 9 test i cannot use virt-install command, although the rest of the packages are installed it seems.
1736 [13:17:22] <inviz> despite internet full of "virt-install" manuals, has the author changed the way to create new VMs?
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1739 [13:18:15] <Arone> hi
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1748 [13:24:16] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
1749 [13:24:26] <tx> yo
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1783 [13:41:30] <zxd> is there a script for detecting OSs installed ?
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1792 [13:46:07] <BluesKaj> zxd, just the command for the OS in use , lsb_release -a
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1794 [13:47:07] <zxd> BluesKaj: need something like os-prober
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1799 [13:49:06] <n4dir> i don't think there is a portable way to do that.
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1802 [13:50:28] <BluesKaj> zxd, guess you answered your own question
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1805 [13:52:29] <inviz> hi. has anyone done KVM stuff on stretch? how do you install new guest? same virt-install ?
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1817 [13:58:30] <Psy-Q> inviz: i've only used it with virt-manager and exported the xml with virsh. but that works
1818 [13:59:00] <inviz> even virt-manager command not found, I think I am missing some package.
1819 [13:59:16] <Psy-Q> hm. it's just "virt-manager" for me
1820 [13:59:16] <inviz> as per one mailing list, I had to install two separate instead of one virt-bin
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1822 [13:59:21] <Psy-Q> just make sure the user is in the right groups
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1824 [13:59:51] <Psy-Q> "libvirt" and "libvirt-qemu" and "kvm", it seems
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1827 [14:00:14] <inviz> ok I see, apt-get install virt-manager offers me let me count...244 packages
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1829 [14:00:23] <Psy-Q> heh
1830 [14:00:27] <jelly> judd: file bin/virt-manager --release stretch
1831 [14:00:28] <Psy-Q> then yeah, maybe some bits were missing :)
1832 [14:00:31] <judd> Search for bin/virt-manager in stretch/amd64: virt-manager: usr/bin/virt-manager
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1835 [14:00:38] <inviz> i wonder if this is the way to install now
1836 [14:00:50] <Psy-Q> only if you want a gui i'd think
1837 [14:00:59] <inviz> well i do not
1838 [14:01:09] <inviz> wait no gui, no
1839 [14:01:24] <Psy-Q> ah, ok. sorry. so well, it works for me with the gui is what i meant :)
1840 [14:01:26] <Psy-Q> and that's in virt-manager
1841 [14:02:06] <j4ckcom> how can i install nmtui?
1842 [14:02:09] <j4ckcom> :)
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1847 [14:04:23] <j4ckcom> help me debian super specialist 😥
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1849 [14:04:38] <jelly> j4ckcom: search for the package containing nmtui binary
1850 [14:04:55] <j4ckcom> oh yeah what is package name?
1851 [14:05:00] <j4ckcom> jelly: :)
1852 [14:05:05] <jelly> j4ckcom: /msg dpkg search
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1856 [14:05:48] <Nazara> is anyone else running testing and now unable to get a dhcp lease?
1857 [14:05:52] <jelly> j4ckcom: do an "apt-cache search nmtui" for a start. If that gives no results, try asking the bot: /msg judd file bin/nmtui
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1859 [14:05:54] <inviz> Psy-Q: so after that i have virt-install now, so thanks.
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1862 [14:06:26] <inviz> however it is version 1.4.0 if I check other virt- packages they are version 3.0
1863 [14:07:07] <JohnA> Nazara: yes.
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1865 [14:07:22] <Nazara> JohnA: oh good it's definitely not me then
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1868 [14:09:05] <j4ckcom> sudo apt-get install network-manager <— jelly ok?
1869 [14:09:07] <RebelCoder> guys, just in general, which is the fastest, most lightweight desktop I can install on Debian ?
1870 [14:09:19] <RebelCoder> LXQT or OpenBox ? Correct ?
1871 [14:09:26] <jelly> j4ckcom: if that's the package containing that command, yes
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1873 [14:09:42] <j4ckcom> 🤣
1874 [14:09:56] <setra> hid3, right for networking issues
1875 [14:10:01] <jelly> RebelCoder: openbox isn't really a desktop, I think it's a window manager
1876 [14:10:36] <RebelCoder> Hmm... ok then... then it is LXDE or LXQt (from unstable)
1877 [14:10:39] <RebelCoder> Correct ?
1878 [14:10:48] <jelly> ,i razorqt
1879 [14:10:49] <judd> Package razorqt (metapackages, optional) in jessie/amd64: Lightweight desktop environment, all components. Version: 0.5.2-4; Size: 7.5k; Installed: 41k; Homepage: replaced-url
1880 [14:11:05] <jelly> that seems to be a desktop environment utilizing openbox
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1883 [14:12:27] <setra> I have a debian server jessie as "man in the middle" between 2 LAN's like inetA->routerA->NetA->[JESSIE8]<-NetB<-routerB<-inetB , and I can not ping from any machine from A -> B or vice versa, even if I have ipforward enabled on debian
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1890 [14:13:23] <bezaban> setra: do you have routes both ways on the machines you are pinging to/from?
1891 [14:13:29] <jelly> setra: machines on inetA and inetB segments probably need routes for the other network set in some way.
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1893 [14:13:57] <jelly> be it default routes, or explicit ones for the other segment
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1895 [14:15:16] <jelly> oh, you have routers in between as well
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1899 [14:15:38] <asterismo> hi
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1901 [14:15:44] <jelly> that means [JESSIE8] also needs routes defined for inetA and inetB segments
1902 [14:15:56] <asterismo> is there anyway to update PHP to versio 7 in Debian 8 Jessie?
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1904 [14:16:01] <asterismo> like an official repo?
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1906 [14:16:53] <setra> jelly, I have in both routers static routes for gateway of other net and on the debian server the following replaced-url
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1909 [14:18:30] <CeBe> asterismo: afaik there are no backports yet
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1911 [14:18:34] <setra> so if I ping on network A (192.168.0.0) the debian server network card A (192.168.0.16) ->it works also it works if I ping the network card B on the server (192.168.2.16). I get a positiv ping back
1912 [14:18:45] <CeBe> asterismo: replaced-url
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1914 [14:19:13] <CeBe> asterismo: I am compiling it myself
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1920 [14:21:08] <inviz> the package i had to install was "virtinst" just fyi Psy-Q
1921 [14:21:32] <JohnA> Nazara: check /etc/network/interfaces has auto xxxxx where xxxxx is the name of your interface. I found that the line autp xxxx was missing. I am not sure that it has solved the problem as I don't diconnect that often.
1922 [14:21:38] <asterismo> thanks CeBe
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1925 [14:23:34] <JohnA> Nazara: just tried to hw disconnect/connect doesn't seem to make any difference?
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1937 [14:28:06] <Nazara> JohnA: using network manager
1938 [14:28:27] <Nazara> JohnA: it's happening on both wifi and en, but works when I static
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1946 [14:35:29] <JohnA> Nazara: samew here
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1950 [14:37:43] <JohnA> Nazara, I have been using wicd which seems to work for both wifi and wired.
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1954 [14:39:05] <JohnA> Nazara, but I cannot get it to just connect on its own. I need to reinstall perhaps that might fix problem.
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1971 [14:51:08] <Nazara> JohnA: turns out my router was being silly, what threw me off was that windows was literally just working
1972 [14:51:30] <Nazara> unfortunately I can't help with wicd, haven't used it
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1975 [14:54:23] <throwthecheese> Hi
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1977 [14:55:28] <throwthecheese> Can I use the full disk for partitioning if I use win32-loader for installing Debian?
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1980 [14:56:16] <zykotick9> JohnA: have you selected the "Automatically connect to this network" in wicd's option for each network?
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1986 [14:58:28] <babilen> wicd is still alive?
1987 [14:58:43] <throwthecheese> Does the Debian installer run from RAM?
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1990 [14:58:55] <tx> babilen: check the package stats
1991 [14:58:57] <zykotick9> babilen: it is :| i like it as a console network manager
1992 [14:59:18] <Nazara> nmcli and nmtui work pretty well for that too
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1996 [15:01:56] <zykotick9> Nazara: i must say, i expected my "apt install network-manager" to want to pull in a LOT of additional packages... turns out, it only wants to install seven. which is totally reasonable, so perhaps i should give n-m another try sometime soon.
1997 [15:02:15] <Nazara> yeah I use it on my buildroot router
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1999 [15:02:20] <Nazara> it's pretty nice
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2003 [15:04:49] <Brigo> zykotick9, n-m got a log better lately.
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2005 [15:05:59] <zykotick9> Brigo: i must say, it's my personal poor history with n-m that has been keeping me away... but i really will give n-m another shot in the near future. thanks for the update
2006 [15:06:26] <Brigo> zykotick9, almost everybody has a poor history with n-m. :)
2007 [15:06:44] <Brigo> only exception those who have never used it :D
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2009 [15:06:54] <zykotick9> ;)
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2011 [15:07:25] <dTal> I remember when replacing network manager with wicd was de rigeur for a new system, along with diking out pulseaudio
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2019 [15:12:25] <tw> It still isn't?
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2021 [15:12:47] <tw> I think disabiling it is still part of the RH server setup guide.
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2025 [15:15:04] <teraflops> RHEL 7 uses NM by default I don't think they recommend disabling NM
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2029 [15:16:09] <dTal> why would you ever use it for a server?
2030 [15:16:32] <jelly> it's the default
2031 [15:17:08] <dTal> surely that's terribly overcomplicated for something that probably has a static IP and is accessed mostly through SSH :p
2032 [15:18:13] <jelly> not really, because such a setup will use redhat's ifcfg (= text config file) backend which is almost what an admin is already used to
2033 [15:18:28] <tw> My mistake, it doesn't get installed by default anymore in RHEL7 unless you install desktop or network developer roles.
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2089 [15:52:25] <J1sy> Hello just installed debian and i dnt see grub
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2096 [15:54:05] <saijusgeorge> Hi All
2097 [15:54:30] <J1sy> [16:52:23] «J1sy» Hello just installed debian and i dnt see grub
2098 [15:54:54] <vimpulse> J1sy: Hi! Sorry to hear.
2099 [15:55:02] <vimpulse> saijusgeorge: Hello!
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2112 [15:59:09] <saijusgeorge> I am troubleshooting a broken Debian system. Can anyone tell me which running process shouldn't be there replaced-url
2113 [15:59:44] <petn-randall> !goal
2114 [15:59:45] <dpkg> Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is.
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2116 [15:59:49] <petn-randall> saijusgeorge: ^^^
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2119 [16:00:52] <petn-randall> saijusgeorge: The process list is likely irrelevant to your problem. Better describe your problem and we can help you with that.
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2122 [16:03:47] <babilen> I like the yum-updatesd process though .. interesting choice
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2124 [16:04:36] <saijusgeorge> petn-randall,babilen : i have a fun task with me and the rule says "Once you are logged into the server, you should search for a running process that shouldn't be there and check the files opened by it: you will find the list of tasks to be accomplished hidden in one of them!"
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2126 [16:05:09] <babilen> That sounds like a homework assignment
2127 [16:05:43] <bcd> and if it is, it sounds like the answer has already been given ;p
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2130 [16:05:58] <petn-randall> saijusgeorge: Unfortunately, we won't do your homework for you. Sorry about that.
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2137 [16:09:24] <saijusgeorge> petn-randall: this is not a home assignment . I am very new to Debian and i don't know which process could be an odd one :( . Need a little help or hint
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2142 [16:13:48] <oiuyt> Hi all
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2144 [16:14:24] <zykotick9> saijusgeorge: 1) i suspect your question is homework and/or 2) that isn't output from a debian system...
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2149 [16:17:22] <saijusgeorge> zykotick9: 1) it's not a homework for sure 2) Yes , it an output from debian
2150 [16:17:32] <petn-randall> saijusgeorge: Where does that rule come from?
2151 [16:17:36] <saijusgeorge> root@devops-test:/etc/yum# cat /etc/issue Debian GNU/Linux 8 \n \l
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2158 [16:19:44] <bcd> saijusgeorge: hint: package manager.. other than that i think you already had more help than you might realize
2159 [16:19:57] <oiuyt> Iam trying to install debian 8 install uefi laptop. I succeed once but then il hqd tout réinstall. Nous uefi boot is not working anymore and i end up with grub cli.....i was wondering if i have to delete my old debian entry ans folder in uefi ?
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2167 [16:21:09] <saijusgeorge> zykotick9: I am preparing for a DevOps test . I got this docker container and list of tasks from one of my friends. But this turned out to be a Debian box.
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2169 [16:21:39] <centrx> oiuyt: That's what I would probably do, start from scratch, but I'm not closely familiar with UEFI
2170 [16:21:39] <saijusgeorge> and i am very new to this.
2171 [16:21:43] <nkuttler> saijusgeorge: either way, we're not doing your homework. go read an lpic book or something
2172 [16:21:47] <centrx> oiuyt: Another option is disable UEFI/Secure Boot in the BIOS
2173 [16:22:04] <nkuttler> !guide
2174 [16:22:04] <dpkg> [guide] at replaced-url
2175 [16:22:16] <nkuttler> !tell saijusgeorge about debian handbook
2176 [16:22:23] <oiuyt> Centrx: sécure boot is disabled
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2181 [16:22:46] <centrx> oiuyt: Secure Boot == UEFI
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2183 [16:22:56] <centrx> oiuyt: so maybe the UEFI installation doesn't work when it is disabled?
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2186 [16:23:21] <oiuyt> Hum ..im usine uefi for Windows without secureboot
2187 [16:23:59] <oiuyt> And i had debian working a thé same time
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2189 [16:24:22] <rgr> in gnome3 how can I set up smartdns? The default dns of 192.168.2.1 (my router) precedes them.
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2191 [16:24:33] <oiuyt> But il réinstall debian re install grub but endroit
2192 [16:24:37] <rgr> seems no way in the network settings UI to change this.
2193 [16:24:44] <oiuyt> Ends in grub cli
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2205 [16:29:08] <jhutchins_wk> centrx: SecureBoot != EFI. It's an optional feature within UEFI.
2206 [16:29:17] <oiuyt> Exact
2207 [16:29:37] <centrx> I see. I thought Secure Boot was the Microsofty name for UEFI
2208 [16:29:50] <oiuyt> Só should i delete debian boot entry and folder offre thé uefi part?
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2212 [16:30:25] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: Are you getting something like "No usable graphical mode found"?
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2228 [16:35:43] <oiuyt> Jhutchins_wk: no. I end up grub cli. When i load vmlinuz and then init.d, i execute boot ans it print "boot in blind mode" and then nothing
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2238 [16:38:50] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: Yup. New HP laptop?
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2241 [16:39:40] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: I get errors from update-grub, appears to be polling for some system variables and getting a null response.
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2243 [16:40:40] <jhutchins_wk> centrx: EFI has been in use for more than a decade, mostly on IBM mainframes and Macs until it started showing up on Intel systems.
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2246 [16:41:34] <oiuyt> Jhutchins_wk : yes!! Hp omen ax212nf
2247 [16:41:59] <oiuyt> But it works first time and install
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2249 [16:42:19] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: I figure I'll wait for an update to grub and/or a little closer to stretch release.
2250 [16:42:54] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: Yeah, I can boot in rescue mode, and there is some code out there for setting the graphical mode in the grub config, but I figure it doesn't matter if update-grub doesn't work.
2251 [16:43:54] <oiuyt> Só?
2252 [16:44:06] <oiuyt> Have to wait?
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2254 [16:44:23] <jhutchins_wk> oiuyt: replaced-url
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2258 [16:46:46] <jhutchins_wk> replaced-url
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2262 [16:48:06] <jhutchins_wk> Redirects to replaced-url
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2267 [16:49:17] <CeBe> jhutchins_wk: Bug search on replaced-url
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2273 [16:51:47] <jhutchins_wk> CeBe: The search box at the top of the page returns results, but not bugs, just general Debian pages.
2274 [16:52:08] <jhutchins_wk> CeBe: Looking for "booting in blind mode", a grub error associated with recent HP laptops.
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2276 [16:53:37] <CeBe> jhutchins_wk: on the page I linked you can scroll down to see search by package name or bug report subject
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2283 [16:57:13] <jhutchins_wk> CeBe: I'm not finding anything. I'll submit a report when I'm home and able to get details.
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2286 [16:58:12] <tdn> I am in the process of upgrading PG on a debian server just upgraded from debian 7 to debian 8. So PG is upgraded frmo 9.1 to 9.4. I just did "pg_dropcluster --stop 9.4 main" followed by "pg_upgradecluster -v 9.4 9.1 main" (as root). It failed with the error: "Error: Could not stop old cluster". So now I am unsure what state my system is in. Did I just break my db?
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2298 [17:04:13] <jasonwc> Does anyone know if there are binaries for Plex Player or OpenPHT available for Debian Stretch? I can only find them for wheezy and jessie.
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2438 [18:02:25] <dury> hi there all :-)
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2450 [18:06:00] <dury> I've booted netinstall in a laptop "jessie" not ethernet card... just pcmcia wireless card usr5410 which driver should I choose from the list
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2453 [18:07:09] <jelly> dury: the simplest thing to do is probably use the unofficial netinst image with firmware and hope it works
2454 [18:07:15] <jelly> !firmware images
2455 [18:07:15] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from replaced-url
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2460 [18:10:05] <dury> jelly, replaced-url
2461 [18:10:29] <dury> jelly, correct?
2462 [18:11:05] <jelly> dury: if you want to make a 32-bit installation, yes
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2464 [18:11:42] <dury> jelly, yeap it's old computer though
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2466 [18:11:56] <jelly> dury: how much RAM does the system have and how old is it? amd64 is probably ok for everything newer than 2008
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2468 [18:12:09] <jelly> except some atom stuff
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2473 [18:12:42] <dury> 700 mb probably, jelly
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2475 [18:13:51] <dury> it's toshiba satellite 2800-400
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2477 [18:14:05] <Silicium> hi there
2478 [18:14:05] <jelly> ouch. Yeah go with i386.
2479 [18:14:13] <stoned> 700mb ram?
2480 [18:14:18] <stoned> That sounds very odd.
2481 [18:14:37] <Silicium> are there known issues when running stretch on a KVM Host running squeeze?
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2483 [18:15:10] <Silicium> err i mean jessie, not squeeze
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2485 [18:16:34] <dury> jelly, you think with *.iso the pcmcia will detect or what once again "usr5410"
2486 [18:17:03] <dury> I mean with that iso
2487 [18:17:14] <jelly> dury: if it's this system you'll have a hard time installing debian 8, dpkg and apt on their own need 128MB+ of RAM replaced-url
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2491 [18:18:24] <jelly> dury: if it's a firmware issue and that's a 32bit cardbus card, not actual 16bit pcmcia, then yes. If it's really pcmcia then... no idea. I'd used that around debian 4-5 maybe?
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2497 [18:21:00] <dury> jelly, it's debian on it already but can't detect wireless signal the router it's so close that it should
2498 [18:21:04] <jelly> dury: I wouldn't install debian 8 for workstation/GUI use on anything with less than 2GB RAM, or 256MB for a small server without GUI. Try oldstable (wheezy, debian 7) maybe if this doesn't work, or go even older
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2501 [18:21:42] <jelly> dury: which debian release is instaled right now"?
2502 [18:21:46] <jelly> !debian suite
2503 [18:21:46] <dpkg> cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions.
2504 [18:21:58] <dury> hang on
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2506 [18:22:43] <dury> 6.0
2507 [18:23:05] <jelly> might be a better idea to try make that work instead of pushing the limits
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2509 [18:23:24] <dury> after typing cat /etc/debian_version
2510 [18:24:11] <dury> yeah but not connection to the net
2511 [18:24:17] <jelly> dury: what does "free -m" say, how much RAM is there in Total column, Mem: line?
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2516 [18:25:42] <jelly> dury: does your router have (old, legacy) B and G modes for 2.4GHz enabled?
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2518 [18:25:44] <dury> 185
2519 [18:26:02] <jelly> so it's 192MB, filled up to max
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2521 [18:26:57] <dury> I suppose that not sure :-(
2522 [18:27:02] <misirk85> hi all
2523 [18:27:12] <jelly> maybe you can find a usb wireless card that will work better. Some work without external firmware
2524 [18:27:36] <jelly> rt73 based
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2526 [18:28:04] <dury> jelly, or pcmcia ethernet connectio
2527 [18:28:06] <jelly> or a wired pcmcia
2528 [18:28:30] <jhutchins_wk> dury: I'm curious what the pciid would be - lspci -nn
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2530 [18:28:44] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: assuming it's a cardbus
2531 [18:29:02] <jelly> if it's 16-bit pcmcia it won't be visible on PCI bus
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2535 [18:29:59] <jelly> dury: but yeah, do you see anything resembling that wifi card in "lspci -nn" output and what does its line say
2536 [18:30:15] <kfogel> I'm doing a dist-upgrade of a mostly-'testing'-distro box that had 4 years of uptime and hadn't had a full dist-upgrade in a long time. I just rebooted after a mostly-successful dist-upgrade, but now am getting this: replaced-url
2537 [18:30:54] <kfogel> (a perl problem: "Can't locate Storable.pm in @INC" -- I suspect this is affecting apt-get's own ability to operate, and thus am not sure how to solve it via apt)
2538 [18:31:35] <dury> network controller texas instrument acx111 54Mbps wireless interface
2539 [18:31:45] <nkuttler> kfogel: download the package from packages.debian.org and dpkg -i it
2540 [18:31:56] <kfogel> nkuttler: duh -- should have thought of that. Thank you.
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2542 [18:32:35] <jelly> kfogel: which version of perl and libperl5* packages do you have installed?
2543 [18:32:53] <jelly> !acx111
2544 [18:32:53] <dpkg> acx-mac80211 is an experimental, reverse-engineered, out-of-tree <mac80211> driver for wireless LAN devices based on Texas Instruments ACX100/TNETW1100, ACX111/TNETW1130, ACX100USB and TNETW1450 chipsets. This driver supports <WPA> and WPA2. To install on Debian systems, see replaced-url
2545 [18:33:05] <kfogel> jelly: 5.14.2, and I think what I need is 5.24.1 (which replaced-url
2546 [18:33:32] <jelly> kfogel: oh dear
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2548 [18:33:38] <kfogel> jelly: that's not reassuring :-)
2549 [18:33:48] <jelly> kfogel: that means you started from a pre-jessie release system
2550 [18:33:54] <kfogel> jelly: probably. this box was ancient
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2553 [18:34:04] <dury> jelly, so?
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2555 [18:34:48] <jelly> dury: 3.2 kernel was only available for debian 6 in backports repo.
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2563 [18:35:50] <jelly> dury: good thing is this is a cardbus device so there's good chance it might work if you get the right kernel and firmware
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2567 [18:36:42] <jelly> kfogel: it would have been a better idea to release upgrade to wheezy, then to jessie, then to current testing
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2569 [18:37:16] <dury> jelly the one is running doesn't work you mean?
2570 [18:38:03] <jelly> dury: what does "uname -r" say? 2.6.32 something? That'd be too old yeah
2571 [18:38:16] <dury> 6.0 is squeeze or what
2572 [18:38:20] <jelly> yes
2573 [18:38:24] <dury> one sec
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2577 [18:39:38] <dury> after uname -r is 2.6.32-5-686
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2581 [18:40:33] <jelly> kfogel: if you've got nothing to lose, you may try installing perl, perl-base, perl-modules-5.24, libperl5.24 with dpkg
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2583 [18:41:15] <jelly> kfogel: which libc6 is installed?
2584 [18:41:37] <kfogel> jelly: one ce
2585 [18:41:42] <dury> so download that iso as we've said before, right, jelly?
2586 [18:41:43] <kfogel> jelly one sec
2587 [18:42:07] <kfogel> jelly: hmm, what's best way to determine that?
2588 [18:42:23] <jelly> kfogel: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1
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2593 [18:43:11] <kfogel> jelly: 2.24-9 (amd64)
2594 [18:43:22] <jelly> dury: I'd probably try debian 7 (oldstable, wheezy) firmware image instead of debian 8
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2597 [18:44:02] <kfogel> jelly: (thanks for the command line clue; I have to do kind of stuff less often than once a year, so I can never remember when/how to drive dpkg)
2598 [18:44:04] <jelly> dury: it still might need manual download, dunno. See /msg dpkg acx firmware
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2602 [18:44:29] <jelly> kfogel: in that case you shouldn't run testing.
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2606 [18:44:44] <kfogel> jelly: Been running it for literally decades.
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2608 [18:44:50] <kfogel> jelly: (or as long as Debian's been around)
2609 [18:45:12] <jelly> or at thevery least patch it up more often than once in 4 years
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2611 [18:45:20] <jelly> !debian-next
2612 [18:45:20] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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2614 [18:45:26] <kfogel> jelly: (let me clarify: on my own boxes, I run a dist-upgrade literally daily. This is not my own box.)
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2616 [18:45:44] <jelly> then, you shouldn't run testing on "not your own box"
2617 [18:45:51] <dury> jelly, see that where? on the net or just type in terminal
2618 [18:45:59] <kfogel> jelly: (it's rare that I have to use dpkg itself, so questions like "How to determine the Debian version number of an installed package?" do not have an automatic index in my mind, though I suppose I would puzzle it out eventually :-) )
2619 [18:46:02] <jelly> dury: type in irc, get message from bot
2620 [18:46:23] <dury> ok
2621 [18:46:31] <jelly> kfogel: that's a clue you shouldn't be usng testing, too :-)
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2624 [18:47:54] <kfogel> jelly: I appreciate the help you have given me so far -- not sarcastic there at all, in case tone doesn't come through in IRC -- but in generally I think you'd have to know a lot more about a person's circumstances before giving blanket advice like that. Debian 'testing' has worked out very well as a production env for me for a very, very long time, and I evaluated the costs and benefits pretty carefully.
2625 [18:47:55] <jelly> kfogel: I'd restore that machine from backup if possible; if not, switch the repositiories to "stretch" instead of "testing" and try to fix the most obvious breakages
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2628 [18:48:19] <kfogel> jelly: thanks; I may try that stretch trick
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2631 [18:48:44] <kfogel> jelly: the machine is running fine; it just rebooted successfully. I'd just like the apt tree to be in a cleaner state. You have given me some excellent starting poitns.
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2633 [18:48:54] <jelly> kfogel: and it might work for you, but as you can see, it fails badly when you're dealing with a system using a... different update frequency
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2635 [18:49:31] <kfogel> jelly: yes. We decided to have a more frequent upgrade policy for this box, for exactly that reason. However, today is the first day of that upgrade policy :-). So, we expected today to be... problematic.
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2638 [18:50:18] <kfogel> jelly: (I did not have dictatorial sysadmin powers on this box; if I had, there would have been very frequent dist-upgrades, you can bet!)
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2641 [18:50:25] <jelly> if you join #debian-next (over on irc.oftc.net) you'll get help more appropriate for testing. Here, I have to keep in mind other people are reading and expound on best practices
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2643 [18:50:40] <dury> I don't know what to do though
2644 [18:50:51] <jelly> kfogel: keeping "stable" or "testing" in sources.list is... not the best practice :-)
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2646 [18:51:03] <hanasaki> in what directory should admin added systemd .service files be put?
2647 [18:51:09] <kfogel> jelly: ah, it's on irc.oftc.net -- I mindlessly tried to join it here on Freenode and got invite-only error of course. But that's b/c it was the wrong server. I'll head over there. Thanks for your help so far.
2648 [18:51:21] <dury> better wired pcmcia though
2649 [18:51:32] <jelly> dury: that might work out of the box yes
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2651 [18:51:54] <Yamato> credit card
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2654 [18:52:08] <dury> which brand
2655 [18:52:16] <jelly> dury: did you get a message from dpkg bot?
2656 [18:52:27] <dury> yeah
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2661 [18:53:50] <dury> jelly, one this info replaced-url
2662 [18:53:58] <dury> and...
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2664 [18:54:27] <dury> this one replaced-url
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2667 [18:54:56] <PryMar56> hanasaki, man systemd.unit
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2670 [18:55:22] <jelly> dury: sorry, someone else will have to jump in, I'm busy and away from keyboard
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2673 [18:55:40] <dury> jelly no rush
2674 [18:55:54] <hanasaki> PryMar56: thanks
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2685 [18:58:28] <Kelebor> hi
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2690 [18:59:27] <asarch> "There is 1 newly obsolete package: linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.1-amd64-unsigned" <- What does it mean?
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2715 [19:08:16] <hanasaki> PryMar56: so it looks like they should be in /etc/systemd/user/*
2716 [19:08:16] <hanasaki> however the service is not found after creation. not even with a daemon reload
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2722 [19:09:39] <laja> Hello. curl replaced-url
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2734 [19:13:16] <laja> Lynx also fails to load replaced-url
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2737 [19:14:55] <PryMar56> hanasaki, /etc/systemd/system is a better choice. To see what failed, systemctl status myservice.service or tail journalctl
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2744 [19:17:52] <hanasaki> PryMar56: why is /etc/systemd/system better?
2745 [19:18:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1711
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2747 [19:18:13] <PryMar56> hanasaki, are you trying to start the service with --user switch?
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2766 [19:28:09] <hanasaki> PryMar56: nope. installing a java applicaitno that runs as a server and want it to autostart on boot under a user ID. runs on a high number port
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2831 [19:56:30] <fif> hey all :)
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2843 [20:01:08] <max3> what's the easiest way to set up outgoing only MTA?
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2853 [20:03:49] <fif> hey folks :)
2854 [20:03:51] <fif> here is the deal: I've got an iphone 5, bought it three years ago(yeah, I know it's a long time for iphone), this iphone has been jailbroken by me in the past, now I've updated the iOS to the lastest and the jailbreak was removed, everything is working fine except this: it shows Im using 13 GB of memory and the memory is full, when I enter settings and manualy calculate how much each app is
2855 [20:03:51] <fif> using, it sums up to 5 GB ONLY, needless to say the iphone constantly telling me that the storage is full, what can I do?
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2858 [20:05:29] <somiaj> do you have a lot of pictures/video on the phone, that wno't be in the total of space used apps
2859 [20:05:47] <fif> no, I counted them in my calculation
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2865 [20:06:20] <fif> settings can tell you how much space your photo album is taking
2866 [20:06:25] <somiaj> there could be other things using data, but I don't know ios that well, and this really isn't a debian support question
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2869 [20:06:46] <fif> yeah Im sorry, but I can't talk on ##iphone
2870 [20:07:29] <somiaj> well this is not the place to ask questions. Register an account with nickserver (ask in #freenode for info on this) if that is what is required.
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2873 [20:07:59] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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2879 [20:08:47] <tobiasBora> I have some troubles to configure a special network (I'd like to install cjdns on a chroot on my mobile phone).
2880 [20:08:58] <tobiasBora> The install/launch does not gives me any problem
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2882 [20:09:44] <somiaj> tobiasBora: I guess I don't follow you, is it the phone you are not able to configure? How does this relate to debian?
2883 [20:09:45] <tobiasBora> ip a gives me a tun0 device, whose ipv6 is fcc8:d5f2:a3e3:<...>/8 scope global
2884 [20:10:01] <tobiasBora> somiaj: I put on my android a debian chroot
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2886 [20:10:15] <tobiasBora> somiaj: and from this chroot I install cjdns
2887 [20:10:32] <jhutchins_wk> max3: dpkg-reconfigure postfix-config
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2889 [20:10:41] <somiaj> tobiasBora: okay that clears it up.
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2891 [20:10:52] <max3> jhutchins_wk, really? postfix? not nullmailer?
2892 [20:11:37] <tobiasBora> so on my computer, when I do "ping6 fcd6:9c33:dd06:3320:8dbe:ab19:c87:f6e3", I can ping a node of the cjdns network.
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2894 [20:11:52] <tobiasBora> (it goes through the tun0 interface)
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2896 [20:12:07] <tobiasBora> however, when I do the same ping6 on my debian chroot, I get an error:
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2899 [20:12:51] <jhutchins_wk> max3: Postfix is the debian default.
2900 [20:13:14] <userro> tobiasBora, are you using vpn/proxy?
2901 [20:13:22] <max3> jhutchins_wk, i'm running and neither postfix nor nullmailer are installed by default
2902 [20:13:25] <tobiasBora> userro: no vpn/proxy
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2906 [20:14:18] <jhutchins_wk> max3: Do whatever you prefer then.
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2909 [20:14:27] <tobiasBora> So the error I have when I ping is "$ ping6 fcd6:9c33:dd06:3320:8dbe:ab19:c87:f6e3
2910 [20:14:29] <tobiasBora> connect: Network is unreachable
2911 [20:14:31] <tobiasBora> "
2912 [20:14:44] <max3> jhutchins_wk, when trying to configure postfix i get this problem replaced-url
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2914 [20:15:10] <tobiasBora> while inet6 fcc8:d5f2:a3e3:<...>/8 scope global appears in tun0 when I run ip a.
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2917 [20:15:18] <FinalX> ubnu1841723671830086
2918 [20:15:20] <FinalX> oops
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2922 [20:15:29] <FinalX> damn nano yubikeys :p
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2927 [20:19:12] <tobiasBora> The thing I don't understand is that since fcd6 is in fc.../8, it should go through the tun0 interface, and at least timeout after a while, but not returning Network is unreachable...
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2944 [20:23:25] <foul_owl> So I'm having an issue with awesomewm, tried to file a bug report, and the devs laughed at me due to debian using an ancient version. As the debian end user, what should I do to resolve this? replaced-url
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2947 [20:23:59] <foul_owl> Normally I would build from source, but a frankensystem is apparently a bad practice
2948 [20:24:06] <foul_owl> So I'm tearing my hair out over here
2949 [20:24:09] <akkad> what is the name of the arm64 64bit userland port?
2950 [20:24:17] <akkad> armhf and armle appear to be 32bit userlands
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2964 [20:29:21] <bschool> How do i add to "start" menu on debian? for example I want to add eclipse to usual applications > programming
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2968 [20:29:35] <CeBe> foul_owl: the debian way of reporting bugs would be on the debian bug tracker, if a fix exists, it could be included in your version by the maintainer
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2975 [20:30:41] <CeBe> ,v awesomewm
2976 [20:30:42] <judd> No package named 'awesomewm' was found in amd64.
2977 [20:30:56] <CeBe> ,v awesome
2978 [20:30:58] <judd> Package: awesome on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.4.13-1; jessie: 3.4.15-1+b1; sid: 4.0-1; stretch: 4.0-1
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2984 [20:32:57] <jhutchins_wk> foul_owl: It's better to report the bugs to Debian, and if the maintainers find that it's upstream, they have far more influence in reporting it upstream.
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2986 [20:33:15] <CeBe> bschool: replaced-url
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2991 [20:34:26] <CeBe> bschool: depends on the desktop environment you are using though
2992 [20:35:15] <TomTomTo1> !tell foul_owl about ssb
2993 [20:35:20] <ashka> hi, is a bug report relevant when an issue is caused by a postinst script because of an invalid value in already in-place configuration files during an upgrade?
2994 [20:35:37] <TomTomTo1> foul_owl: you can build awesome 4.0 from sid source.
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2997 [20:36:55] <jhutchins_wk> ashka: I think dpkg figures that if you have an existing configuration, it must be working the way you want.
2998 [20:37:29] <jhutchins_wk> ashka: If the config format or directives change dpkg might know about that - but it doesn't fix Apache, so probably not.
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3000 [20:38:04] <jhutchins_wk> ashka: An invalid config value is not a bug unless it's from the default config.
3001 [20:38:06] <n4dir> bschool: others probably know better, i think what you are looking for is something like /etc/xdg/menus/ ; or files which end with *.desktop. Not an answer, rather a searchterm for a searchengine or a wiki
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3005 [20:39:28] <n4dir> now that i think of it: i think lots of graphical environments and window-managers use something like debian-menu (or similar, "locate menu | grep debian")
3006 [20:39:33] <jhutchins_wk> bschool: Also, debian doesn't have menus. Windows managers running on debian do.
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3010 [20:42:54] <ashka> jhutchins_wk: I just find the lack of any sanity checks very odd. my issue is with squid, I have cache dir set to /tmp (I should have /tmp/squid or something), and postinst will chown proxy:proxy -R /tmp basically
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3014 [20:44:19] <CeBe> ashka: you can report it and hear what the maintainers say about it, if it is easy to add a check and improves the situation they may add it
3015 [20:44:24] <aleph-TA> does anyone have an idea as to why my DNS would stop working around every 5 hours while using openvpn in a network namespace?
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3018 [20:44:47] <somiaj> n4dir: the debian menu has been depricated. xdg-menus via .desktop files are all most modern debian packgaes provide, so the old debian menu is very barren.
3019 [20:45:01] <somiaj> but some older wm's have not added support for xdg-menus
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3022 [20:45:13] <somiaj> and apps don't provide the info for the old debian menu anymore
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3025 [20:45:52] <ashka> CeBe: alright, thanks
3026 [20:45:59] <n4dir> i see, thanks. I don't use menus at all, hence offered rather a searchterm. Anyway: thanks for the correction
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3036 [20:51:51] <misirk85> hi, sorry i have question about install tar xz codeblocks for debian jessie, i must extract arch and install deb one after the other? Or is it fast installation method?
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3042 [20:54:03] <somiaj> misirk85: care to clarify what you mean? Where are you gettnig these .xz files and they contain .deb's or you are compiling their source code into .debs?
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3049 [20:56:25] <misirk85> i download codeblocks_16.01_amd64_jessie.tar.xz, and I want to install.Here the question arises whether I need to unpack and install deb packages one by one, is there a quick way.
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3052 [20:57:14] <somiaj> misirk85: these are third party .deb's? Unless they have a repo you can use with apt-get you need to install them manually, you can do dpkg -i pkg1 pkg2 pkg3 ....
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3054 [20:57:21] <somiaj> so install them all at once, but without a repo you have to do that
3055 [20:57:27] <somiaj> I don't really know what codeblocks is
3056 [20:57:38] <somiaj> ,v codeblocks
3057 [20:57:39] <judd> Package: codeblocks on amd64 -- wheezy: 10.05-2.1; jessie-backports: 16.01+dfsg-2~bpo8+1; sid: 16.01+dfsg-2; stretch: 16.01+dfsg-2
3058 [20:57:51] <somiaj> misirk85: any reason you don't get version 16.01 from jessie-backports?
3059 [20:58:01] <misirk85> c++ ide replaced-url
3060 [20:58:44] <somiaj> as in apt-get -t jessie-backports install codeblocks
3061 [20:59:22] <misirk85> I am a new user and I wanted to try :)
3062 [20:59:52] <n4dir> mainly as a new user one wants to stick to packages provided by debian. imho misirk85
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3064 [21:00:30] <misirk85> I install packages aptitude :)
3065 [21:00:31] <somiaj> misirk85: we don't really support thrid party .deb's or repos because they don't meet debian standards.
3066 [21:00:46] <somiaj> (they also may not even be made for debian).
3067 [21:00:53] <somiaj> so if you can get the software from the debian repo, I suggest doing so
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3070 [21:02:11] <misirk85> sorry, i didn't know :(
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3075 [21:02:40] <misirk85> thanks for help, and sorry for problem :)
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3079 [21:04:27] <unborn> ,v dymo
3080 [21:04:28] <judd> No package named 'dymo' was found in amd64.
3081 [21:04:42] <unborn> ah its works.. sorry
3082 [21:05:10] <somiaj> unborn: /msg the bot
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3084 [21:05:36] <unborn> somiaj: yes but I always forgot his name.. I added that to my notes now
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3097 [21:12:45] <unborn> misirk85: welcome to debian :) and dont be sorry to ask question or ask for help, we all do it sometimes. Its normal, you are welcome to ask if you dont know how-to.. specially when you new user and dont know debian at all. Enjoy your perfect debian!
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3103 [21:16:58] <misirk85> thanks :)
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3144 [21:34:33] <c-c> Hello
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3146 [21:35:05] <c-c> I restarted developing a base-desktop install script for debian jessie.
3147 [21:35:18] <c-c> It fails on trying to install "policykit-1".
3148 [21:35:45] <c-c> - This is a plain network install with apt-get update && upgrade ran (today).
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3150 [21:35:54] <c-c> What is policykit-1 and why does it fail atm?
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3155 [21:36:55] <somiaj> ,v policykit-1
3156 [21:36:56] <judd> Package: policykit-1 on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.105-3; jessie: 0.105-15~deb8u2; stretch: 0.105-17; sid: 0.105-17; experimental: 0.113-5
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3158 [21:37:24] <somiaj> c-c: policykit is used by many dekstops to help give the user root privlages for certain tasks, such as shutdown/suspend
3159 [21:37:26] <c-c> - let me correct: Why does installing policykit-1 fail on a jessie netinstall where apt-get update & upgrade have be ran today.
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3162 [21:37:31] <greycat> "apt-cache show policykit-1" to see what it is
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3165 [21:38:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1717
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3167 [21:38:20] <teraflops> c-c: sharing the _exact_ error would help
3168 [21:38:49] <semitones> Hey all -- I'm trying to set a static IP on my computer. I'm following a good guide, however, do I need to make sure I set an IP address that DHCP on my router is not going to try to use for another device? How can I find out which IPs are safe? And does this not matter? Thanks!
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3170 [21:39:18] <greycat> Yes, you must ensure you don't choose an IP that your DHCP server might also be using.
3171 [21:39:25] <CeBe> semitones: why would you set a static IP on a netowrk that is managed by DHCP?
3172 [21:39:43] <c-c> For my policykit-1 fail, see the script line number 94 here replaced-url
3173 [21:39:48] <c-c> teraflops: ^
3174 [21:39:48] <semitones> CeBe, because it's not working correctly now. I can explain the whole situation
3175 [21:39:49] <greycat> Generally, if you can do so, the preferred solution would be to tell the DHCP server to give you (your MAC) the same IP every time.
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3178 [21:40:11] <semitones> greycat, would that be through the router config? I'm not sure how to affect the verizon router
3179 [21:40:14] <semitones> but I could try
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3181 [21:40:23] <CeBe> semitones: yes
3182 [21:40:45] <greycat> The second-best solution is to restrict the DHCP server's range of usable IPs, leaving you a few for manual assignment.
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3185 [21:42:14] <teraflops> c-c: TL;DR if a plain apt-get install works, fix your script
3186 [21:42:46] <semitones> CeBe, I have a raspberry pi running raspbian. It has wifi and is plugged in on Ethernet. It's being used as a znc bounce. I wanted to connect to the bounce via the hostname, however I can't ping the hostname for some reason (because it's connected from both wifi and eth?), but I can ping the IP it's on. There have been a few times I haven't been able to SSH into it from any IP address. I'd also like to port forward to the znc port so I can
3187 [21:42:46] <semitones> connect to it from outside my home network. For these reasons, I want a network config that just works, and thought static IP would be the answer
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3191 [21:43:39] <c-c> teraflops: it does, but why would the script fail (ok may be my bash fail)
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3196 [21:44:38] <semitones> also I have two routers -- one main one, and one extended one that the device is connected to
3197 [21:44:38] <CeBe> semitones: "however I can't ping the hostname" - a hostname always resolves to an IP, so that would be an issue with your DNS setup if you do not get the correct IP
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3200 [21:45:16] <semitones> CeBe, so what do you think the easiest solution is?
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3202 [21:45:17] <teraflops> c-c: ask in #bash or wait to see if someone want's to take a look at your script
3203 [21:45:47] <teraflops> wants*
3204 [21:46:04] <greycat> #bash does not want to see Debian-specific commands and errors
3205 [21:46:07] <semitones> Do I want to set up "dynamic DNS?" "Dynamic DNS is a dynamic IP Address to be aliased to a static hostname, allowing a computer on your network to be more easily accessible from the Internet"
3206 [21:46:14] <CeBe> semitones: the two options pointed out by greycat
3207 [21:46:18] <teraflops> fair enough
3208 [21:46:44] <c-c> teraflops: well, looks like it is related to parameter expansion (null params)
3209 [21:47:05] <CeBe> semitones: the IP you get on the internal network should be different from the IP you have on the internet, so that seems unrelated to dynDNS
3210 [21:47:16] <unborn> semitones: log into your router where you pi is connected found it and make it reserved.. done
3211 [21:47:23] <c-c> teraflops: or, perhaps the way apt-get handles args/params has changed into more picky one
3212 [21:47:28] <unborn> - this also have nothing to do with debian
3213 [21:47:35] <greycat> Am I the only person who does not understand what a "base desktop install script" is supposed to do? Isn't it just one apt-get command and you're done?
3214 [21:48:31] <bazhang> greycat, perhaps the 'automatix' of olden days
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3216 [21:48:56] <teraflops> idk i did not read the sctipt
3217 [21:49:03] <teraflops> script :S
3218 [21:49:22] <SpeedyG> or the yum group-install equivalent ? :)
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3220 [21:49:54] <unborn> semitones: regards dyndns its fairly very easy to do but you need to understand dns essentially if you would like to run it with your bind9.. if you running pi as router which would be very poor decision you can use something like dnsmasq - but again, google is your help
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3226 [21:52:58] <unborn> semitones: if you decided to do dyndns with bind9, you also would need to write some script.sh to perform update of ip address and run it in cron like every hour or whatever you prefer however as I said, setup dns is easy, you just need to know what are you doing.
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3228 [21:53:30] <unborn> dyndns = on your own.. no 3th party involved whatsoever
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3230 [21:54:17] <semitones> Ok I think dyndns isn't what I want
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3232 [21:54:33] <greycat> I would not take unborn's ramblings as authoritative.
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3234 [21:54:47] <greycat> If your router mentions *specific external* dyndns services, then he's just wrong. Again.
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3236 [21:54:54] <unborn> semitones: dnsmasq is easy.. no dns understanding need it, and I guess you could still write some script.sh with cron to update the records in it.
3237 [21:55:03] <semitones> here's a problem though - on ##networking they told me my eth0 DCHP seems to be borked... according to ifconfig, the IP address given through ethernet is 169.254.196.75, where the wlan0 ip address is 192.168.1.12. Does that make a difference?
3238 [21:55:17] <unborn> records meh I mean text entries aka one lines
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3242 [21:55:34] <teraflops> semitones: hostname is not the same as fdqn, the easiest way of doing what you want is harcoding a hostname in /etc/hosts, this is not useful if you have several machines on your lan. you could setup avahi too. also if your router does reflection/nat loopbak and you setup a domain name properly you could connect to the fdqn from the inside (lan)
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3245 [21:55:55] <unborn> greycat: sure. good luck
3246 [21:56:22] <semitones> teraflops, I do have several machines, so I guess that's out. I also already modified /etc/hosts trying to do that -- maybe that could be messing thigns up?
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3249 [21:57:17] <`Kevin> semitones: indeed 169.254/16 netblock suggests you did not get a proper DHCP OFFER from your dhcp server
3250 [21:57:18] <teraflops> semitones: how did you edited /etc/hosts and on which machine?
3251 [21:57:23] <teraflops> edit*
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3253 [21:57:52] <somiaj> semitones: depending on the netmask those two networks cna't talk to eachother, the 192.168.1.12 looks like a standard internel network, while the 169.254.x.x looks like a default that avahi sets
3254 [21:58:24] <somiaj> if you are using wifi, you may want to disable/not bring up the eth0 interface
3255 [21:59:03] <`Kevin> ^ 169.254 is a link local RFC specd address space :)
3256 [21:59:18] <unborn> greycat: I was talking about proper bind9 setup as your very own dyndns.. I mentioned dyndns on your own, no 3th party involved meaning his bind would provide that dyndns service.
3257 [21:59:26] <unborn> anyway that was just site note
3258 [21:59:41] <teraflops> semitones: avahi is fine in you lan if you trust the machines there
3259 [21:59:43] <semitones> teraflops, I used SSH to edit /etc/hosts from the computer I'm typing on right now -- I could pastebin the /etc/hosts. I probably did other things too trying to change the hostname
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3262 [22:00:10] <semitones> I'd prefer to use the 192.168.1.x network since all the other computers have IPs like that
3263 [22:00:12] <greycat> Editing /etc/hosts should not change your IP addresses.
3264 [22:00:27] <semitones> I'm not sure what avahi is so learning that would take some research
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3268 [22:01:12] <unborn> semitones: check hostname command and hostname -f ...does both give you same output?
3269 [22:01:13] <teraflops> semitones: for the sake of clarity, where you edit /etc/hosts file is the machine from which you want to connect to the relay, right?
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3271 [22:01:25] <teraflops> unborn: unrelated
3272 [22:01:34] <unborn> teraflops: how?
3273 [22:01:35] <somiaj> semitones: I am not a fan of avahi, but it is the windows like thing that trys to discover your address in various ways.
3274 [22:01:48] <semitones> thanks for the explanation somiaj!
3275 [22:01:55] <unborn> nah forgot it.. i did try to help
3276 [22:02:07] <somiaj> semitones: but it is something that gets installed on desktops.
3277 [22:02:14] <c-c> ok, my problem was related to bash array expansion, fyi
3278 [22:02:41] <teraflops> semitones: avahi catalog/make discoverable all services and machines in your lan, and give them a name
3279 [22:02:47] <semitones> teraflops, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I edited the /etc/hosts on the machine that I want to use as the znc bounce, which is the machine that's having trouble getting a DHCP lease on its ethernet port. Does that help?
3280 [22:02:58] <semitones> unborn, I'm trying everything :)
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3282 [22:03:10] <semitones> replaced-url
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3289 [22:04:56] <teraflops> semitones: the hosts approach is editing /etc/hosts in the machine from which I'm going to connect to the rpi. so I add 192.168.199.34 znc.local then I can ping znc.local
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3291 [22:05:38] <bazhang> teraflops, is that debian or raspbian
3292 [22:05:44] <teraflops> idk
3293 [22:05:56] <teraflops> bazhang: it's semitones issue
3294 [22:06:24] <teraflops> semitones: wrong :S
3295 [22:06:26] <semitones> bazhang, raspbian -- how different are they? (also hello old friend :)
3296 [22:06:57] <bazhang> semitones, raspbian has their own support channel, you realize
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3298 [22:07:21] <c-c> I would like to hear comments. Currently my 'default ultralight openbox default desktop pack' -installer uses bash to achieve install. Do you think this is a good approach? Metapackages are annoyings as no grouping or comments possible, makes mainteinance difficult. replaced-url
3299 [22:08:13] <semitones> teraflops, ah so if I understand, I would edit the hosts file on every device that wanted to connect through the network to the device in question?
3300 [22:08:15] <unborn> semitones: yeah I can see it.. I am very well good in web stuff from server to code, however in past I was massive pain in butt for ops here, and as you talking to most of them, I often with other users get notification for no reason to not listening to me (as you had few minutes ago) which I am fine with it.. means you should take their advice, even if it is looking like massive palava to you right now. Most of them are really great!
3301 [22:08:24] <teraflops> semitones: right
3302 [22:08:28] <semitones> should we take this conversation to #raspbian? I thought this was general enough to be here
3303 [22:08:58] <teraflops> semitones: not me, I do not use rapbian :P but you got the idea
3304 [22:09:12] <`Kevin> bazhang: its fairly low level stuff what he is trying to acomplish, i wouldnt say its even distro specific
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3307 [22:09:29] <bazhang> just an fyi
3308 [22:09:30] <teraflops> I run debian in my bananapis and odroids
3309 [22:09:33] <`Kevin> yep :)
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3312 [22:13:09] <unborn> .local domains on your local network can give you some headache as well..
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3316 [22:15:59] <unborn> correct me if I am wrong but didnt semitones asked to have one device on network to point other devices to correct path / ip on network instead of editing hosts file on each machine? also phones or tablets?
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3318 [22:16:16] <unborn> *to point to
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3326 [22:21:38] <semitones> I think that's right - i want the other machines' irc clients (including phones) to be able to talk to this device, both within the network and from over the internet (via port forwarding)
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3330 [22:22:28] <semitones> right now I'm troubleshooting with the ##networking crew -- definitely learned a lot here that is helping me there
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3333 [22:24:23] <unborn> semitones: thats what I understood originally.. I was always massive pain in butt for ops here coz english is my 4th language and really here I very very often miss post means I come and reply sometimes to something which is not really relevant any more.. but I am trying to be better and I think, advice to go and edit hots on each device is just ... - how you going to do it on tablets and phones? iphone or android.. I don't think so you would be even
3334 [22:24:23] <unborn> able to do it..
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3337 [22:25:24] <semitones> yeah I think that's what the ops and everyone was saying too. I wonder if it will be as simple as just disabling the wlan0 interface in the end... :p i'm still working on understanding how it's currently configured
3338 [22:25:28] <unborn> anyway semitones if that is rp, I would go on offtopic channel or perhaps pm.. I think I can help you in few minutes without palava around (no jargon)
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3340 [22:26:23] <unborn> ah ops does not need to understand what languages you speak.. and I admit they are right, i should never miss reply to me or others regards the issue I am commenting to.. don't worry about that
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3343 [22:27:11] <unborn> semitones: since rp is not running pure debian we should not talk about it here.. lets move on to off topic or pm or whatever channel you want
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3347 [22:27:47] <mpalumbo> what is rp? Ras-Pi? sorry I am nosey
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3354 [22:29:11] <semitones> i'm happy talking about it here in the open and learning the slow way, as they said it was low-level enough to be on topic. I'll chime back in after I figure out something... and Noetic yeah I'm using a raspberry pi, I usually call them rpi :)
3355 [22:29:44] <Noetic> semitones: thanks, sorry I can be a bit nosey, still has not killed me yet. .....key word is yet
3356 [22:29:50] <unborn> semitones: been there and been banned.. if ops are fine with it sure.
3357 [22:30:42] <unborn> rp or rpi or rpis same thing to me.. its machine..
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3385 [22:36:47] <llamapixel> The new pi zero with wifi is a nice addition for tiny tinkering.
3386 [22:37:22] <missmbob> yeah, but it's also offtopic :)
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3388 [22:37:31] <unborn> semitones: in fact its very simple.. once you solve your networking issues (which I believe you have no issues at all if you are on cable) come back or pm me.
3389 [22:37:44] <jhutchins_wk> missmbob: ... unless you load Debian on it.
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3391 [22:37:57] <unborn> jhutchins_wk: yeah
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3393 [22:38:05] <psychoticwarrior> semitones: what kind of problems are you having
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3395 [22:38:49] <missmbob> psychoticwarrior: read the log/scroll up if you're interested. there's quite a bit to go over.
3396 [22:38:56] <domovoy> hi, can anyone access this? replaced-url
3397 [22:39:00] *** Quits: kpease (~kpease@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
3398 [22:39:20] *** Quits: Piraty (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3399 [22:39:28] <unborn> domovoy: yeah I can load icecast web interface
3400 [22:39:28] <TomTomTo1> and the user already is in the right channel, which is ##networking.
3401 [22:39:35] <unborn> ho https
3402 [22:39:53] <missmbob> domovoy: usually that's specified in the server's httpd config.
3403 [22:39:54] <jhutchins_wk> domovoy: That site has http redirected to https.
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3405 [22:40:08] <semitones> yeah i thought it was a debian configuration issue at first, but then realized ##networking might be more apropos
3406 [22:40:16] <domovoy> unborn, does it still work after accessing replaced-url
3407 [22:40:20] <semitones> feel free to join in there if you're interested
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3415 [22:41:10] <unborn> domovoy: direct domain access give me some website.. read header some cubic image.. want sreenshot or recording the screen?
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3424 [22:41:41] <domovoy> missmbob, jhutchins_wk : i know apache (port 80) does a redirect to https, but i want to access port 8000, there should not be any https there
3425 [22:41:43] <jhutchins_wk> domovoy: Doesn't work here after the redirect. Times out trying to establish a secure connection. I suspect errors on their end.
3426 [22:41:46] <unborn> domovoy: on chromium and or google chrome I was not redirected to https..
3427 [22:41:53] <unborn> domovoy: update - not even on ff
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3429 [22:42:49] <unborn> website it self is https redirecting but icecast does not..
3430 [22:42:59] <unborn> domovoy: is that what you after? ^^^
3431 [22:43:00] <jhutchins_wk> domovoy: It may be a multinode load ballanced, some working, others not. 8080 is usually a proxied port.
3432 [22:44:08] <domovoy> unborn, well, indeed website should be redirected, but icecast (port 8000) should not. and from my end, firefox insist on https for the icecast page...
3433 [22:44:23] *** Quits: aielima (~aielima@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3434 [22:44:57] <CeBe> domovoy: the https on port 443 sets a Strict-Transport-Security: header
3435 [22:45:10] <domovoy> jhutchins_wk, errors on whose end?
3436 [22:45:13] <CeBe> your browser could be applying that to all ports
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3438 [22:45:36] <domovoy> CeBe, well, that would be stupid, why would it do that?
3439 [22:45:37] <CeBe> so it would not allow any non-https connection with that domain anymore
3440 [22:45:42] <unborn> domovoy: its very simple.. don't chance anything in icecast, there is no reason to do so.. you can always setup folder in your apache then in your conf you can setup proxy to replaced-url
3441 [22:45:55] <missmbob> domovoy: i told you why
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3443 [22:46:16] <CeBe> domovoy: that is the idea behind that header. it tells the browser to not do anything unencrypted
3444 [22:46:17] <unborn> domovoy: yeah ff would be like that and you cannot run ssl on 8080 - well you can, but its ill adviced
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3446 [22:46:47] <unborn> domovoy: the way I said with apache proxy, no port need to be given out.. and it will be https
3447 [22:46:56] <semitones> so for anyone following my drama, I discovered that my /etc/network/interfaces had the line ""iface eth0 inet manual" for some reason... who knows why it was there.
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3458 [22:47:03] <psychoticwarrior> i think you have to change a .conf file or somehing in order to make it port 8080
3459 [22:47:04] <unborn> user will only click on link.. meh again this is off topic
3460 [22:47:05] <unborn> sorry
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3467 [22:48:09] <unborn> domovoy: unfortunately google will follow ff soon...just telling you
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3469 [22:48:39] <domovoy> so, i should get rid of the Strict-Transport-Security: header ?
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3471 [22:48:53] <Digz> quick question, I don't think it is any problem.... I run a debian server at home with 1 cpu 2 cores defined in VMWare... as of late I have started running more different things on it. I can change the cores from 2 to 4, I am presuming that debian doesn't care at all and just distributes whatever it needs to 2 more cores if it runs out of cpu? - or is there some file on the OS I would also need to adjust and/or recompile?
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3473 [22:49:15] <CeBe> domovoy: to sum up, the header is to allows a website to tell the browser that it is working with HTTPS only and every attept that is trying something without https is suspicious activity.
3474 [22:49:35] <CeBe> it indicates that the website will always only be available via Https
3475 [22:49:45] <unborn> 1+ CeBe
3476 [22:49:48] <CeBe> if they serve other stuff on that domain, that is a configuration issue
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3479 [22:50:48] <unborn> domovoy: apache proxying would be way to go.. no ports, ssl enabled, forced or not, that would work
3480 [22:50:53] <CeBe> domovoy: if you do not control the website you can not get rid of the header, except by telling them about the problem
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3483 [22:51:26] <domovoy> so actually, the right way to do it would be to keep the header, but serve the radio on another domain?
3484 [22:51:44] <CeBe> domovoy: yes
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3486 [22:51:58] <unborn> domovoy: I can see you running it on apache on ohv.. why not ask them for help? or you self managed?
3487 [22:52:22] <jhutchins_wk> Digz: It depends more on the software. Take a look at what the CPU load actually is. If the apps are multithread capable they can use more cores, but some just lock on one.
3488 [22:52:28] <unborn> domovoy: not really need to do so
3489 [22:52:40] <domovoy> unborn> i manage everything myself, did a debootstrap from ovh rescue
3490 [22:52:46] <jhutchins_wk> Digz: Remember, if you define x cores VMWare has to wait until that many cores are idle before it can give that VM a tick.
3491 [22:53:09] <semitones> hooray it is working again, now that it really is using dhcp! Now going to try greycat's original suggestion of making my router always give it the same IP address
3492 [22:53:15] <unborn> domovoy: sure, since that is offtopic.. see my message
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3495 [22:54:21] <unborn> semitones: that will work, however every time you add or remove any device on network, you would go and edit every single host file on those devices + you would be very happy to forget about mobile devices..
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3497 [22:55:02] <CeBe> unborn: if you have a fixed IP there is no need for a hostname or hosts file
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3500 [22:55:26] <semitones> you're right that pinging "patpi" still doesn't work. However if I can get a static IP I'll just reference that in my IRC clients
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3502 [22:55:53] <Noetic> semitones: check your router may have the ability to give out speicifc IP address, so the router will still give our DHCP to other devices but when the router sees the MAC address of a specific device it will assign a specific IP to just that device
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3505 [22:56:20] <semitones> Noetic, I'm going to try that -- verizon's config tools don't make it obvious but that's my next step :)
3506 [22:56:40] <Noetic> semitones: is this a router/cable modem in one?
3507 [22:56:45] <unborn> domovoy: thats what I was telling you exactly.. glad you understand what I mean it
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3509 [22:57:14] <semitones> hold on I'll check if there's a coax going into it...
3510 [22:57:25] <Noetic> ok
3511 [22:57:34] <unborn> CeBe: yes - I understand this all.. I was referring to earlier palava here on irc.
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3513 [22:57:45] <semitones> Noetic, yes it appears to be what it is
3514 [22:58:31] <Noetic> hmm, may have to do some digging
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3521 [23:01:31] <Digz> jhutchins_wk, yeah of course the software also needs to work with it. I am not experiencing any issues at the moment, so I am not changing anything for now.... but with a couple of websites, a couple of databases, 2 game servers, and a variety of other apps (ftp, unifi controller, radius, etc) I was just wondering. Regardless, Debian is a beautiful thing :)
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3527 [23:03:20] <semitones> Noetic, I found a place on the router that claims to set up Static IPs which might be code for DHCP reservation. But I think we're in ##networking territory now. I'm about to try setting that up
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3538 [23:06:58] <unborn> domovoy: have fun ;)
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3547 [23:10:40] <unborn> domovoy: btw that service is not normally open to outside world - its really local on that port so as you can see you can run any port there to be https also whatever location.. its just matter of preferences
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3553 [23:11:35] <psychoticwarrior> wita
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3566 [23:16:49] <semitones> CeBe, I think I've narrowed down the problem back to "I can't ping the hostname" -- is that an issue with the debian configuration on the device, or the configuration of DNS on the router?
3567 [23:17:15] <unborn> heh
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3587 [23:19:05] <unborn> semitones: you should not be able to ping hostname aka someting.something unless your router supports it.. you should always use ip.. not a hostname.. I mean there are some smart oses to do so but not all of them are able to.. I would not really say its debian issue, nor any other linux issue
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3590 [23:19:22] <semitones> alirght I wont talk about it more here
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3593 [23:19:38] <unborn> ...and if your router supports it, then you would not need that pi to do dns job for you :)
3594 [23:20:12] <semitones> However on a somewhat related note...
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3596 [23:20:31] <semitones> Do you think I could make a cron job to check if eth0 had a DHCP lease, and if it didn't, to turn on wlan0?
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3598 [23:20:42] <semitones> I realize that there's no reason for wlan0 to be on if eth0 is connected
3599 [23:20:49] <unborn> :)
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3612 [23:24:26] <unborn> semitones: for sure you can setup cronjob to check your external ip or internal ip every minute and if the ip would change, then you could email it to you or send you hangouts message or any other aim message
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3617 [23:25:30] <unborn> semitones: regards rpi - I would really prefer not to talk about it here as its not really related to debian it self - and this is debian support channel. sorry.
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3643 [23:36:51] <jasonwc> To run ZFS for the root fs, Jessie requires an updated Grub from Stretch or Sid. When installing grub-pc from Sid, apt also took its dependencies from Sid, including libfuse2, even though the versions in Jessie would satisfy the requirement. Now that these libraries have been upgraded, gnome-core can't be installed as there is a conflict with the Sid package for libfuse2. My question is how
3644 [23:36:51] <jasonwc> I can go about downgrading the dependencies for grub-pc which don't actually need to be pulled from Sid. Attempting to do so in a test VM just broke apt.
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3647 [23:37:48] <jasonwc> I'm in something of a Catch-22. I got around this by upgrading to Stretch, which gave me a working system without any unstable packages. However, there is no OpenPHT binary for Stretch at this time. I need Jessie for OpenPHT, but I need the unstable Grub for ZFS. :P
3648 [23:38:02] *** Joins: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip )
3649 [23:38:47] <c-c> can you install OpenPHT from jessie
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3651 [23:38:57] <jasonwc> No, I tried.
3652 [23:39:09] <c-c> ie. specify version, or, specify release
3653 [23:39:11] <jasonwc> It depends on libcec3 (used for sending IR signals through CEC)
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3657 [23:39:43] <jasonwc> I tried the Jessie OpenPHT 1.7.1 packages from here: replaced-url
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3661 [23:40:22] <c-c> jasonwc: which release are you on?
3662 [23:40:44] <jasonwc> At this time, the machine is running Debian Stretch
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3664 [23:41:09] <c-c> And grub and base system and apt works ok?
3665 [23:41:10] <jasonwc> I would prefer to run Jessie but was unable to install gnome-core given the aforementioned issue
3666 [23:41:16] <jasonwc> Yes, everything works fine
3667 [23:41:26] <jasonwc> The Stretch system has only Stretch packages, and works fine
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3669 [23:42:12] <jasonwc> However, the Jessie OpenPHT builds won't install due to dependency conflicts and a Sid package from July 2016 also won't install successfully for the same reason.
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3672 [23:42:36] <jasonwc> I installed ZFS as root using these instructions: replaced-url
3673 [23:42:56] <jasonwc> It requires grub from either unstable or stretch.
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3675 [23:43:31] <jasonwc> I think it is possible to get everything working if I manually install the grub dependencies from Jessie and then install only the grub packages from Stretch
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3677 [23:43:36] <c-c> ok, I suppose I should first tell you to read replaced-url
3678 [23:44:01] <jasonwc> Yeah, I know. I'm trying to install the fewest number of packages necessary to get ZFS to function
3679 [23:44:09] <jasonwc> which I believe is just grub
3680 [23:44:10] <c-c> and no, I don't think your plan for grub-deps-from-jessie&&grub-lib-from-stretch will work
3681 [23:44:16] <jasonwc> Why?
3682 [23:44:25] <c-c> And no, from what you say I think you don't know.
3683 [23:44:30] <jasonwc> I checked the dependencies and all of the libraries can be satisfied from Jessie
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3685 [23:44:38] <c-c> So, please read that link again...
3686 [23:44:51] <psychoticwarrior> udev seems to have bugs in kali linux
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3688 [23:45:38] <jasonwc> c-c I should mention that I tried backporting grub from Stretch to Jessie but the build dependencies also could not be satisfied
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3691 [23:46:57] <c-c> so, stretch openpht won't work?
3692 [23:47:18] <jasonwc> There is no binary for Stretch yet
3693 [23:47:25] <jasonwc> If there was, that's what I would be doing
3694 [23:47:28] <c-c> can you checkinstall it?
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3696 [23:48:05] <c-c> ie. download, make, checkinstall, dpkg replaced-url
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3698 [23:50:54] <jasonwc> Perhaps, but someone mentioned it took a day to compile on a dual socket server. OpenPHT can be compiled as a standalone package but it appears that the source package (105MB) is meant to build an entire embedded Linux environment with PlexHomeTheater. Someone mentioned it took 24 hours to build on a dual socket server. :/
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3700 [23:51:07] <jasonwc> I need to see if it's possible to just build the standalone client
3701 [23:51:19] <jasonwc> the readme isn't that clear
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3705 [23:53:27] <c-c> I imagine openpht is like 300 packages, so, trying to frankensystem that will give you headaches
3706 [23:53:32] <jasonwc> c-c So, you think it is never acceptable to install testing/unstable packages on Stable, even with package pinning?
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3708 [23:53:54] <jasonwc> Grub seems to have quite limited dependencies
3709 [23:54:45] <c-c> I often mix systems, but only when its something I can wrap my head around (1, max 2 deps, install diff versions of the same) replaced-url
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3711 [23:55:16] <psychoticwarrior> anybody run kali linux?
3712 [23:55:33] <Atm0spher1c> jasonwc, why not just backport from unstable?
3713 [23:55:44] <c-c> jasonwc: perhaps you could contact the openpht project and see if you could get stuff happening
3714 [23:55:44] <Atm0spher1c> or use docker if you need to mix things
3715 [23:55:53] <jasonwc> Atm0spher1c: build dependencies cannot be met
3716 [23:56:06] <jasonwc> I tried rebuilding grub
3717 [23:56:15] <PryMar56> jasonwc, how long to build grub2?
3718 [23:56:32] <jasonwc> I never got to that point. apt said build dependencies could not be met
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3723 [23:57:19] <Atm0spher1c> I haven't been following the whole conversation, but have you tried docker?
3724 [23:57:22] <jasonwc> c-c What specifically troubles you about installing the dependencies first from Jessie and then just installing the grub packages from Stretch?
3725 [23:57:26] <PryMar56> jasonwc, many of the build depends are for cross-compile, like different flavors of qemu and also libxen
3726 [23:57:27] <jasonwc> Atm0spher1c I have not
3727 [23:57:35] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3728 [23:57:36] *** cdown_ is now known as cdown
3729 [23:58:04] <c-c> jasonwc you about?
3730 [23:58:21] <c-c> jasonwc: try it and you will see it will mostly trouble your system
3731 [23:58:22] *** Quits: AnD[a]LeS (~andales@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3732 [23:58:45] <jasonwc> c-c I was planning to do it in a test VM first. I'm just curious why you are against it.
3733 [23:59:16] <c-c> jasonwc: see what apt says
3734 [23:59:17] <jasonwc> c-c I should note that I just installed this systm yesterday. My server is 100% Jessie and was running Wheezy until a month ago.
3735 [23:59:27] *** Quits: overlord_tm (~andraz@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3736 [23:59:29] <n4dir> imho it simply doesn't make much sense to add testing packages to stable, cause then you won't have a stable system anymore
3737 [23:59:29] <c-c> lol suddenly its *my* problem
3738 [23:59:37] <jasonwc> c-c My goal was to turn a system that was running embedded OpenPHT into a backup ZFS server
3739 [23:59:46] <n4dir> you might just as well go directly for either testing or unstable (or a mix of testing unstable)
3740 [23:59:56] <jasonwc> c-c No, I'm sorry. That is not what I meant at all.
3741 [23:59:58] <c-c> jasonwc: I resign from your problem and your goals and any question or problem you may have or have had. Ciao!
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