People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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33 [00:16:25] <DebianNewbie> ahhh thank god I installed debian
34 [00:16:29] <DebianNewbie> It's working so well :_)
35 [00:16:35] <dvs> ???
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44 [00:21:01] <r4fkdebian> Hi all
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51 [00:22:05] <r4fkdebian> I would like to know if there is any application in Debian Jessie through command line to convert video formats and record to media after conversion
52 [00:22:17] <r4fkdebian> everything through command line, without graphical interface resource
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54 [00:23:59] <jercos> r4fkdebian: sounds like you're looking for avconv. libav-tools would be the package to install.
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57 [00:24:28] <jercos> not sure what you mean by "media", if you're talking about DVD or blu-ray authoring I'm not familiar with the software used for that myself.
58 [00:25:00] <dvs> like wodem?
59 [00:25:35] <awal1> Apart kdenlive, shotwell, kino and openshot, any audio/video/potho editor with gui you recommend ?
60 [00:25:37] <jercos> wodim will burn disc media from an image, I don't believe it will author a video disc.
61 [00:26:04] <awal1> I have tried flowblade but why xfce hangs when I run it
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66 [00:30:20] <jak2000> hi all i changed this line in sudoers: Defaults:jsmith timestamp_timeout=30 for 30 minutes, but not work, any advice?
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102 [00:47:07] <r4fkdebian> back again, sorry. Does it convert and record after, jercos (libav-tools) ? I have it installed already, just used it to download and convert videos
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105 [00:47:31] <r4fkdebian> but is it possible to burn to dvd the conversion too ?
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108 [00:48:02] <r4fkdebian> Hi dvs, Please, what is wodem ?
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110 [00:49:20] <dvs> !wodim
111 [00:49:20] <dpkg> wodim ("write optical disk media") is a <DFSG> compliant fork of <cdrecord>, part of <cdrkit> and available in the wodim package. See replaced-url
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118 [00:52:14] <DebianNewbie> Hey, I'm configuring libpam-ldap on my debian and now I have to decide which PAM profile I want to enable, I have 4 options and I know I just need two but would it hurt to enable all 4?
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155 [01:10:53] <we6jbo2> hi
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158 [01:11:29] <we6jbo2> I'm getting an error: Failed to fetch replaced-url
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160 [01:12:52] <DebianNewbie> I need help D: I installed LDAP and tried to use it as way to log in. My virtual machine now doesn't show any graphical interface and automatically denies the user I used to log in before
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162 [01:13:10] <awal1> we6jbo2, may be just a temporal repository issue. try pointing apt to another mirrors
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167 [01:16:32] <we6jbo2> oh
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169 [01:16:46] <we6jbo2> How do I do that?
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191 [01:28:26] <petn-randall> we6jbo2: When do you get this error?
192 [01:28:39] <petn-randall> ,v apt-transport-https
193 [01:28:41] <judd> Package: apt-transport-https on amd64 -- squeeze: 0.8.10.3+squeeze1; squeeze-security-lts: 0.8.10.3+squeeze7; wheezy-security: 0.9.7.9+deb7u6; wheezy: 0.9.7.9+deb7u7; jessie: 1.0.9.8.3; stretch: 1.2.13; sid: 1.2.14; experimental: 1.3~exp3
194 [01:29:11] <petn-randall> we6jbo2: You need to run 'apt-get update' regularly to refresh the package list.
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211 [01:35:44] <DebianNewbie> Is there a way to check if one of my virtual machine is connected to the LDAP server located in another computer without trying to log in?
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292 [02:10:07] <nevyn> ad/win 8
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341 [02:30:50] <Fox682> Does anyone know why virtual machines in VBox will peg the CPU? I'm on Debian Jessie with kernel 3.16.0-4. Debian VMs work great but VMs with Alpine just peg my CPU... do we know if this is a Debian problem or an Alpine Problem?
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345 [02:32:00] <jmcnaught> Fox682: sounds like a VBox or Alpine problem. You could run top or something in the Alpine VM to try and find what's active
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350 [02:32:59] <Fox682> Top and Htop report nothing, According to the Guest OS, it's barely moving...
351 [02:33:05] <petn-randall> !tell mach_k_away -about away
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354 [02:34:14] <jmcnaught> Fox682: are you running top in the guest or the host? you'll probably have better luck asking in #vbox or the alpine channel
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547 [04:55:55] <Devastator> swap should always be double RAM size?
548 [04:56:42] <awal1> Devastator, thats the common
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550 [04:57:26] <Devastator> awal1 partitioner is suggesting 9.2GB, but I have 16GB of RAM, should I edit it?
551 [04:58:23] <qmr> Devastator: awal1: no, that's fucking stupid, it's not 1999
552 [04:58:47] <awal1> Devastator, ^
553 [04:58:51] <qmr> Devastator: 1-2 GB is plenty. if you want to suspend to hard disk swap needs to equal RAM
554 [04:59:15] <awal1> Devastator, I guess you may never use 9 gb of ram, anyway
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556 [04:59:51] <Devastator> qmr current partitions are: 1.0MB biosgrub, 10GB /, 9.2GB swap, 220.9 /home, comments?
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559 [05:00:52] <qmr> 20-40GB for / 1-2GB for swap
560 [05:01:31] <abrotman> Devastator: what does the box do? double RAM has been dead for years,depending on workload
561 [05:01:46] <Devastator> abrotman it is my personal box
562 [05:01:56] *** mach_k_away is now known as mach_kernel
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564 [05:02:56] <Devastator> abrotman what do you think about: 1MB for biosgrub, 30GB for /, 2GB for swap and the rest for /home?
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569 [05:06:12] <RippyDippy> hey guys, I'm following the NTP instructions on the wiki, but for some reason I don't have the command dkpg-reconfigure .. any ideas?
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579 [05:08:13] <Anselmo> RippyDippy: are you root?
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584 [05:09:24] <RippyDippy> Anselmo: no, would that be the issue?
585 [05:09:34] <Devastator> most likely
586 [05:09:37] <Anselmo> try running it with sudo.
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588 [05:10:29] <Devastator> qmr is this reasonable for you? 1MB for biosgrub, 30GB for /, 2GB for swap and the rest for /home?
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592 [05:13:27] <RippyDippy> Anselmo: Nailed it
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595 [05:14:32] <awal1> Devastator, swap size is controversial. follow the installer... :P
596 [05:15:16] <Devastator> hahahah
597 [05:15:19] <Devastator> indeed
598 [05:15:29] <qmr> Devastator: yes. you can also use LVM to mangle it again later without reinstall
599 [05:16:13] <Devastator> I've messed with LVM only once and found it painful hehe
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602 [05:18:06] <qmr> try reading the manual
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684 [05:50:20] <milil> hi
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688 [05:51:46] <milan> guys?
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690 [05:52:10] <milan> hi....
691 [05:54:14] <jmcnaught> milan: it's stated very clearly in the channel regulations secion 15 subsection 12 that you must ask a question _before_ you can get an answer ;)
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694 [05:55:56] <milan> is there any body?
695 [05:56:06] <hiya> hi
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698 [05:57:26] <milan> what is best and safest way to install latest libre office in debian 8.5?
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700 [05:58:19] <jmcnaught> judd: v libreoffice
701 [05:58:20] <judd> Package: libreoffice on amd64 -- squeeze-backports: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u4~bpo60+1; wheezy: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u6; wheezy-security: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u6; wheezy-backports: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u3~bpo70+1; jessie-security: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u3; jessie: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-backports: 1:5.1.3-1~bpo8+1; sid: 1:5.1.4~rc2-2; stretch: 1:5.1.4~rc2-2; experimental: 1:5.2.0~rc1-1
702 [05:58:44] <jmcnaught> milan: 5.1.3 is in jessie-backports
703 [05:58:54] <jmcnaught> dpkg: tell milan about bdo
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705 [05:59:12] <milan> cool...
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709 [06:00:19] <milan> are they safe to install? jessie-backports?
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711 [06:00:52] <jmcnaught> backports are not covered by debian security support, and are updates by backporters
712 [06:01:08] <jmcnaught> most people only install the few backported packages they really need
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751 [06:38:11] <up2late> how do i get the ~ from my username in my irc address to go away
752 [06:38:21] <up2late> in irssi
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756 [06:38:53] <mrrhq> I think that's the flag that means owner.
757 [06:39:07] <mrrhq> It's not in your username here for me.
758 [06:39:24] <up2late> way2late is the nick on my linux box
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760 [06:39:38] <up2late> that one
761 [06:40:15] <up2late> i mean my address
762 [06:40:16] <mrrhq> If you mean in your bash shell, ~ means home directory.
763 [06:40:25] <up2late> ~up2late@c-76-107-222-110.hsd1.tn.comcast.net
764 [06:40:28] <up2late> that ~
765 [06:40:42] <jmcnaught> up2late: /SET user_name = <user>, or use "-user <user>" with "/network add"
766 [06:41:08] <jmcnaught> on IRC the ~ means that the username was not verified with ident
767 [06:41:10] <mrrhq> up2late: You could ask #freenode for a hostmask, too.
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769 [06:41:51] <jmcnaught> shell servers can run identd so that users can not change the user part of their hostmask (for accountability)
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772 [06:42:41] <mrrhq> I haven't got a squiggly line with Irssi before. I just set my username in the config file.
773 [06:42:53] <mrrhq> username != nick
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775 [06:43:37] <jmcnaught> mrrhq: you have a tilde now :P
776 [06:44:06] <mrrhq> I don't really care about it, tbh. Lol.
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780 [06:45:17] <jmcnaught> mrrhq: most people don't run identd thest days, but a server that has lots of shell users might. with identd running those users would not have the ~ but also would not be able to change their username (they can select their nick like normal though)
781 [06:45:31] <mrrhq> I just realized it's showing my IPv6 address. That's new to me. Probably because I got a new router.
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784 [06:46:24] <up2late> how do i get identd running
785 [06:46:25] <jmcnaught> IRC was how I noticed that my ISP had turned on ipv6 too
786 [06:46:33] <Anonymes> Hi
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788 [06:47:05] <jmcnaught> up2late: you don't need it, you just need to use the settings i mentioned earlier. They're documented here: replaced-url
789 [06:47:37] <up2late> thx
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794 [06:50:15] <venkat_330> how to access parallel port from non root user..When executed i get ioperm : Operation not permitted
795 [06:51:44] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: according to /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz the user needs to belong to the lp group
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802 [06:59:31] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: venkat: venkat: lp cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev netdev scanner lpadmin
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805 [06:59:59] <venkat_330> Just now added lp in group..
806 [07:00:31] <venkat_330> same error exist: ioperm : Operation not permitted
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808 [07:01:03] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: did you logout and log back in after adding the user to the lp group?
809 [07:01:16] <venkat_330> nope will do that that
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812 [07:03:36] <mrrhq> Oh, I always thought lp mean the printer.
813 [07:03:50] <mrrhq> I guess not.
814 [07:04:27] <mrrhq> Unless it's a parallel port printer?
815 [07:04:31] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: Nope still same...
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817 [07:04:49] <venkat_330> i am trying access parallel port directly using ioperm
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820 [07:05:43] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: is it a device in /dev ? what are are owner/group/permissions on it?
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827 [07:08:56] <venkat_330> the device is /dev/port (crw-r----- 1 root kmem 1, 4 Jun 27 18:31 /dev/port) .. trying to access 0x378 of parallel port...and application permission in 755
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832 [07:11:52] <plasmoduck> I''m getting a lot of "CRITICAL on CPU_IOWAIT" warnings on glaces, is that something I should be worried about?
833 [07:12:17] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: replaced-url
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842 [07:15:17] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: see what /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz says about kmem group then. i thought you were talking about something like /dev/lp0
843 [07:15:57] <jmcnaught> "direct access to the system memory" sounds like it should be used with care
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852 [07:19:08] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: nope even that did not work
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856 [07:19:30] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: what didn't work?
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866 [07:22:42] <grantwu> Is there any projection as to when the next version of Debian will be released?
867 [07:22:45] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: Sorry, I am trying to access parallel port of my motherboard (replaced-url
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871 [07:23:52] <jmcnaught> venkat_330: you added the user to the "kmem" group and logged them in again. setgid kmem on the binary might be better
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874 [07:26:01] <jmcnaught> grantwu: replaced-url
875 [07:26:54] <grantwu> :/ arghhh
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878 [07:28:03] <jmcnaught> grantwu: there's usually a new stable release every couple of years
879 [07:28:38] <grantwu> jmcnaught: I know
880 [07:28:43] <brimonk> Is there a way that I can use nc to create a debian pastebin?
881 [07:28:46] <grantwu> Or at least, I know now.
882 [07:29:16] <jmcnaught> brimonk: i don't think paste.debian.net works with nc, but termbin.com does
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888 [07:33:37] <brimonk> jmcnaught: Thanks!
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900 [07:40:32] <RebelCoder> Guys, can you please suggest THE best ind safest way to install IntelHD/Nvidia drivers after a fresh Debian install ? I have tried like every Linux distro buy now, and on my laptop, Video Drivers were always the problem. Overheating, some artifacts in Plasma Desktop, e.t.c.
901 [07:41:03] <RebelCoder> I am OK with just Intel HD or NVidia working, as I need this laptop for work only.
902 [07:41:16] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: replaced-url
903 [07:42:38] <RebelCoder> Ok. I will try this then/ Really hope it will not destroy my fresh install, as I am so tired of re-installing all those linux distros....
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905 [07:42:56] <RebelCoder> Debian seems to be the best so far actually. Just need to have the drivers working
906 [07:43:07] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: there may be an option in the BIOS or UEFI to only have one card in use
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908 [07:43:12] <RebelCoder> Do you know, what drivers are installed out of the box ?
909 [07:43:33] <RebelCoder> No, it is a laptop with super-neutered bios
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912 [07:45:02] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: intel graphics cards just have one driver that will work out of the box. nvidia out of the book will use nouveau. /var/log/Xorg.0.log should show which is being used
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919 [07:45:51] <RebelCoder> I can see, that intel is used.... but there are some artefacts in Plasma menus and windows... things that use OpenGL
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921 [07:46:06] <RebelCoder> That is the case with almost all Linux Distros for me.
922 [07:46:14] <RebelCoder> Installing theo ne you suggested now.
923 [07:46:21] <RebelCoder> *the one
924 [07:46:37] *** Quits: johefernan (~joheferna@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
925 [07:46:45] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: if it's a newer intel GPU you may consider using a newer kernel from backports
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927 [07:47:08] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: the instructions for bumblebee are for if you want to switch between the two GPUs in runtime
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930 [07:47:58] <jmcnaught> RebelCoder: there is also a slightly newer xserver-xorg-video-intel in jessie-backports
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932 [07:48:08] <jmcnaught> !tell RebelCoder about bdo
933 [07:48:12] <jmcnaught> !tell RebelCoder about bdo kernel
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936 [07:48:46] <RebelCoderW> Crash ! =(
937 [07:49:00] <RebelCoderW> Ok. I will try newer Kernel then
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939 [07:49:28] <jmcnaught> it might not help if it's an older GPU
940 [07:49:38] <RebelCoderW> HD 4600
941 [07:49:54] <RebelCoderW> NVidia GTX 765M
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943 [07:50:28] <RebelCoderW> I think default kernel is not good for me, as I see freezes. Ok. I will keep trying. Thanks for your help
944 [07:50:49] <jmcnaught> RebelCoderW: no problem. you can also check the logs right after a freeze
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946 [07:51:08] <RebelCoderW> Where can I do that ?
947 [07:52:14] <jmcnaught> RebelCoderW: if you haven't rebooted, run "journalctl". If reboots keep happening, /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian shows how to enable persistent journals, then you can "journalctl --boot=-1" to see logs from previous boot
948 [07:52:32] <jmcnaught> or look at /var/log/syslog for the time of the crash
949 [07:52:34] <grantwu> /var/log/syslog might also help?
950 [07:52:55] <RebelCoderW> Very good info guy! Very helpful! Thanks. Will keep hacking!
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977 [08:08:52] <venkat_330> jmcnaught: setgid kmem on the binary (Can you tell me how to do this)
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979 [08:11:28] <brimonk> Does anyone know if you can run more TTYs on Debian?
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983 [08:13:30] <jelly> brimonk: what do you mean by TTYs? I think you can open at least 256 in /dev/pts
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994 [08:15:29] <jelly> brimonk: (see man ptmx, man pty)
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1001 [08:17:43] <brimonk> jelly: You know how you can ctrl + alt + f<number> and get like, 1-6 virtual terminals?
1002 [08:17:59] <brimonk> jelly: Is there a way that I can make f1-f12 all terminals?
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1016 [08:23:40] <brimonk> Apparently you can use the chvt program to change what TTY you're looking at.
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1019 [08:24:31] <brimonk> So, all I (think) I need to do, is like bind together alt + fn7-12 to chvt #, and I'll be set.
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1022 [08:25:36] <brimonk> Wait! That's not true.
1023 [08:25:47] <brimonk> The login manager isn't running on those yet...
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1041 [08:34:41] <simbalion> Hi I'm trying to install fuse-source with apt-get but it says it can't find it, I assume I need to add a repo but I'm not certain which one
1042 [08:34:52] <simbalion> this is in jessie
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1051 [08:38:38] <brimonk> simbalion: Do you have the src urls specified inside /etc/apt/sources.list ?
1052 [08:38:50] <simbalion> no
1053 [08:39:09] <simbalion> I think this is what I'm trying to install replaced-url
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1068 [08:48:26] <brimonk> simbalion: Do you just want to browse the source? Because you can do that at replaced-url
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1079 [08:55:53] <simbalion> brimonk: No. I am trying to install it.
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1081 [08:56:47] <brimonk> simbalion: Can you try to use 'apt-get source fuse' and see if that does it?
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1103 [09:04:30] <simbalion> brimonk: that did it, did not fix the problem tho.
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1105 [09:04:47] <brimonk> simbalion: Well, what was the problem?
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1108 [09:05:06] <simbalion> brimonk: can't do 'modprobe fuse'
1109 [09:05:26] <brimonk> are you running as root?
1110 [09:06:18] <simbalion> Yeah, I think I need to update my kernel
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1112 [09:06:46] <simbalion> what does ckt stand for in the kernel versions? ckt11, ckt20, ckt25
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1120 [09:08:26] <brimonk> ... I have no clue.
1121 [09:08:38] <simbalion> might be a digital ocean thing, I will ask them
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1125 [09:09:20] <simbalion> brimonk: thanks for your help!
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1127 [09:09:40] <brimonk> simbalion: Anytime. Let me know if I can help any more.
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1180 [09:34:30] <seven_> help -l
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1182 [09:34:41] <sumi> hello
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1217 [09:50:39] <fennesz> Hello!Anyone knows how to auto-update atom editor?
1218 [09:50:53] <fennesz> I am using debian 8 x64
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1220 [09:53:27] <towo^work> what's an atom editor?
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1224 [09:55:14] <jolt> towo^work: It's an editor from github called Atom. Or thats my guess
1225 [09:56:24] <joegiampaoli> anyone know how to disable usb charging to android device that I'm using as USB network tethering so it doesn't kill my battery? Thanks in advance...
1226 [09:57:10] <towo^work> that's not realy a debian question
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1228 [09:57:53] <joegiampaoli> It is if I can stop sending the charge from laptop to device...
1229 [09:58:41] <joegiampaoli> not from android device receiving the charge...
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1238 [10:02:28] <donttrustem> Hi guy’s I am trying to workout what is the best option for protecting a files on one server and allowing access to it without a username or password. Like using an encrypted key :S
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1241 [10:03:28] <donttrustem> senario Server A has the app Server B holds the key / file that is required for the app to work
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1244 [10:04:32] <fennesz> towo^work, it's an editor from github. I just wanted to know if anyone uses it and knows a workaround on debian
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1252 [10:08:40] <TomTomTosch> you could schedule a task to redownload their .deb and install it. i wouldn't want to do that, though.
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1271 [10:19:28] <brimonk> donttrustem: wget the key from 'Server B' then scp/rsync/git/whatever from 'Server A'?
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1304 [10:39:52] <qqz> I have an installation of KDE4 where it always hangs for a while on startup when displaying the blue globe.
1305 [10:40:01] <qqz> anyone here who can tell me what KDE does on startup while displaying the blue globe?
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1310 [10:43:02] <mcsmurf> hi, I want to create a Debian package, where the Depends: fields should exclude a certain range of another program
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1312 [10:43:25] <mcsmurf> I tried foo (<< 1.6.1) | foo (>= 1.6.11)
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1314 [10:43:37] <mcsmurf> which seems to work fine, but I'm not really sure if this is valid
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1317 [10:43:58] <mcsmurf> as I found no documentation on this kind of solution
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1323 [10:46:55] <qqz> conflicts?
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1327 [10:48:43] <mcsmurf> conflicts sounds a bit too strong, but I guess in the end the result matters :) (and would be the same as with Depends if I see this correctly)
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1341 [10:56:45] <mcsmurf> hrm, Breaks: nfdump (<< 1.6.11), nfdump (>= 1.6.2)
1342 [10:56:51] <mcsmurf> conflicts with 1.6.12
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1344 [10:58:20] <mcsmurf> ok, I found an official page which says | should work
1345 [10:58:37] <mcsmurf> (replaced-url
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1350 [10:59:23] <mcsmurf> " In a list of conditions to be met, the comma serves as a separator. It must be interpreted as a logical “and”. In conditions, the vertical bar (“|”) expresses a logical “or” (it is an inclusive “or”, not an exclusive “either/or”). "
1351 [10:59:35] <mcsmurf> but I still wonder why my breaks line did not work
1352 [11:00:44] <somiaj> mcsmurf: #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net is a good place for packaging questions
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1355 [11:01:21] <mcsmurf> somiaj: ah, good to know
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1365 [11:06:06] <simbalion> anyone seen a VPS hang on LSB: Raise Network Interface after a kernel upgrade?
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1494 [12:26:53] <danxor> hi all
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1523 [12:37:43] <MisterGadfly> How the hell do I disable GVFS? GVFS_DISABLE_FUSE=1 doesn't work
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1525 [12:38:55] <MisterGadfly> I can't uninstall it because so many applications depend on it
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1534 [12:43:47] <MisterGadfly> Can't disable even the accessibility stuff. Who the hell designed this?
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1539 [12:50:00] <MisterGadfly> Well, I renamed the files and it works.
1540 [12:50:19] <MisterGadfly> But it's stupid that I can't disable them
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1547 [13:00:53] <brimonk> /5
1548 [13:01:09] <brimonk> Sorry about that.
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1550 [13:03:00] <jelly> MisterGadfly: often dealt with, by using something other than gnome
1551 [13:03:29] <MisterGadfly> jelly: hard to do
1552 [13:03:48] <MisterGadfly> jelly: and I'm using a tiling wm
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1580 [13:23:54] <fennesz> Hello ! When I am copying files from one directory to another using nautilus , the progress bar freezes . Is there a way I can monitor the copying progress?
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1587 [13:26:32] <KebabBob> I have a VPS I cannot connect to via ssh. service ssh is running, but I cannot even connect from localhost. Any ideas?
1588 [13:26:51] <KebabBob> Just Connection refused
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1601 [13:34:38] <angor> KebabBob: sudo netstat -nltp | grep sshd
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1603 [13:34:50] <plasmoduck> fennesz, use the CLI
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1605 [13:35:27] <fennesz> plasmoduck, with "cp"?
1606 [13:35:44] <plasmoduck> KebabBob, check your permission and access logs.
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1609 [13:37:18] <plasmoduck> fennesz, cp -rf "/path/to/directory" "/path/to/new/directory"
1610 [13:37:45] <fennesz> k will try this thank you !
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1622 [13:41:35] <shann> Hi, my package uploaded to official repository but i show that missing dependencies (libjs-sphinxdoc), how change them ?
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1624 [13:44:24] <RebelCoderW> Guys, is there a way (image) to install Debian with KDE, for example, but without applications ? It installs a lot of apps that I never use and when I uninstall them, it uninstalls many libs that cause some problems after that. Not to mention, it is a pain to uninstall tons of software after fresh install. NETInstall is not for me as I have no idea
1625 [13:44:24] <RebelCoderW> how to install all of those elements by hand. So is there an image with Full KDE but minimum if not software at all ?
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1627 [13:45:44] <mayhew> RebelCoderW: replaced-url
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1630 [13:46:11] <plasmoduck> RebelCoderW, apt-get install kde-plasma-desktop that is as close as you will get.
1631 [13:46:49] <plasmoduck> RebelCoderW, since KDE and GNOME are Desktop Environments not Window Managers and they come with bundled software.
1632 [13:47:32] <foetus> apt-get --no-install-recommends install
1633 [13:47:40] <plasmoduck> RebelCoderW, if you want something more streamlined you could try something like MATE or XFCE and for something even sleeker I prefer Awesome WM and Fluxbox WM.
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1638 [13:49:07] <fennesz> plasmoduck, by copying this way I can't monitor the progress of my copy . Is there another way?
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1641 [13:50:23] <fennesz> btw with dmesg I get : [17205.617114] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] No Caching mode page found
1642 [13:50:24] <fennesz> [17205.617117] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Assuming drive cache: write through
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1645 [13:51:43] <Lokke> hello world - how can i search for a file wich contains "xyz" ?
1646 [13:51:49] <plasmoduck> fennesz, replaced-url
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1648 [13:52:07] <Lokke> i tryed with find / -name xyz*
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1650 [13:52:52] <petn-randall> Lokke: Are you looking for _content_ with xyz, or a filename _containing_ xyz?
1651 [13:53:00] <plasmoduck> Lokke, find | grep xyz
1652 [13:53:19] <foetus> grep -i 'string' file
1653 [13:53:21] <j4n4> Hello There
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1655 [13:53:39] <petn-randall> plasmoduck: That is wasteful, find already has a function to filter filenames.
1656 [13:53:50] <Lokke> find / | grep xyz did the job
1657 [13:53:55] <Lokke> thank you =D
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1659 [13:54:08] <petn-randall> Lokke: find / -name '*xyz*' would do it.
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1661 [13:54:30] <fennesz> plasmoduck, ah yes rsync is another option
1662 [13:54:33] <petn-randall> Lokke: It's faster than piping to grep.
1663 [13:54:35] <Iridos> the manpage of e2fsck speaks about preserving the bad blocks list... can I somehow read that bad blocks list?
1664 [13:54:36] <plasmoduck> petn-randall, just another way ins't it?
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1667 [13:55:11] <Lokke> ahhh thank you - so i mised the quotes
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1673 [13:56:11] <Lokke> find / | grep xyz is showing to many entrys
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1681 [13:59:04] <petn-randall> Lokke: That's because "find / -name '*xyz*'" will look for filenames containing that string, whereas "find / | grep xyz" will output every directory and file on the system, and grep will check if the string contains xyz.
1682 [13:59:51] <petn-randall> Lokke: You will notice that all files in a directory 'xyz' will _not_ be shown in the former, but _will_ be shown in the latter.
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1685 [14:00:54] <petn-randall> Lokke: You should also be getting a lot of 'permission denied' entries unless you run as root. But I'm guessing you're searching in /somedir?
1686 [14:01:05] <RebelCoderW> mayhew: So install Debian without Desktop env. and then , in terminal install KDE desktop ?
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1689 [14:01:45] <Lokke> petn-randall: its my router - there is just one user on it
1690 [14:02:03] <plasmoduck> RebelCoderW, that should work.
1691 [14:02:12] <mayhew> RebelCoderW: exactly, I just did that recently myself to install a more minimal GNOME on stretch
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1697 [14:04:19] <fornax> Hi I have a problem when my backup program backuppc tries to connect to other hosts. I always get a "tput: No value for $TERM and no -T specified" but this does not happen when I connect from a different host then my backuppc container. Does anyone have an idea about the reason for this message? The shell hangs at this point.
1698 [14:04:39] <pyvpx> I am unable to get virsh console working for a debian VM I have. I've edited the grub to add console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8 on the vmlinuz line but still nothing. what else should I look at?
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1704 [14:07:34] <pyvpx> solved my own problem...was missing text in front of the console=tty0
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1719 [14:13:07] <fornax> Noone here that can give me a hint where to search. I found out that term is set to dumb, whyever
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1731 [14:16:30] <RebelCoderW> mayhew: Did you have only 2 things ticked during the install then ? [*] Debian desktop env. [*] Standard system utilities
1732 [14:16:32] <RebelCoderW> right ?
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1736 [14:17:42] <mayhew> RebelCoderW: I don't think you want the Debain desktop env
1737 [14:17:50] <mayhew> you're going to install that after, remember?
1738 [14:18:03] <RebelCoderW> KDE Env was after...
1739 [14:18:13] <RebelCoderW> I de-ticked KDE Desktop
1740 [14:18:27] <RebelCoderW> Hm....
1741 [14:18:33] <RebelCoderW> Will see what is installed now...
1742 [14:18:47] <uniTosch> It will install Gnome if you only Tick debian Desktop environment.
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1744 [14:19:05] <RebelCoderW> But GNOME and KDE were a separate tick boxes...
1745 [14:19:25] <RebelCoderW> OK. Will keep hacking, now I know what is what.
1746 [14:19:36] <RebelCoderW> You guys. are amazingly helpful
1747 [14:20:09] <uniTosch> Yep. But dde includes one de of choice, Gnome being default if nothing else selected.
1748 [14:20:41] <RebelCoderW> Good to know !
1749 [14:20:45] <RebelCoderW> tanks
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1760 [14:24:11] <dagerik> how can I make all system cronjobs email the output to me?
1761 [14:25:16] <ravenx> you can add a MAILTO= field
1762 [14:25:20] <ravenx> in the beginning of your cronjob
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1771 [14:26:16] <Iridos> to answer my own question, seems dumpe2fs -b is supposed to do it, but just returns after 2 lines of unrelated output
1772 [14:26:41] <google77> where do I report dependency issues for applications that are not in the repos?I am talking about Stretch.
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1778 [14:27:58] <Iridos> google77, to wherever you have that application from
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1784 [14:29:57] <google77> Iridos, I did. They responded on git that it is probably a Debian testing issue. Since it worked fine on stable but the package for testing is still stuck in unstable.
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1786 [14:30:54] <Iridos> you said it's not in the repo
1787 [14:31:16] <uniTosch> google77 Then you will have to wait till it Moves on. Debian can't Support third party packages.
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1790 [14:31:54] <Iridos> how can it be "stuck in unstable" if it's not in the unstable repo
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1794 [14:32:41] <google77> Iridos the applcation itself is not in the repo. But some of its dependecies exist both in the stable and unstable repos. The problem is that I am on testing.
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1796 [14:33:13] <Iridos> then install the dependencies that you need from unstable and hope they don't break stuff?
1797 [14:33:28] <google77> I might do that.
1798 [14:34:38] <Iridos> the only difference between testing and unstable is that packages in testing survived a while in unstable without getting hideous bug reports
1799 [14:34:52] <google77> I know.
1800 [14:35:04] <google77> 10 days right?
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1802 [14:35:45] <Iridos> it's apparently not a fixed number, but I never found out what determines the time... possibly someone pushing a button somewhere
1803 [14:37:06] <google77> here's the git issue I opened;
1804 [14:37:32] <google77> replaced-url
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1836 [14:54:44] <google77> I am not one of the otter browser developers, but those guys already do provide their debs themselves, where could I find anyone from debian who is willing to see if they could put it into the archieves?
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1841 [14:57:19] <uniTosch> Can't even find a license in their Repo...
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1844 [14:57:58] <dagerik> ravenx: I added a MAILTO but I aint getting email
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1846 [14:58:45] <dagerik> well actually, exim is the MTA and is unable to transfer email to me
1847 [14:58:55] <uniTosch> Otherwise, the normal way to get stuff into debian is to find a Sponsor who Checks the work and is willing to upload it.
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1849 [14:59:28] <google77> uniTosch replaced-url
1850 [14:59:30] <uniTosch> But I think #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net is a better place to ask.
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1852 [15:00:42] <ChrisH> dagerik: cronjob outputs gets send to the user running the job. Using exim it is easy to check what the delivery would be. run exim -bt and enter the cronjob's username at the >
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1857 [15:01:52] <Iridos> well, or file a request-for-package and hope someone picks it up
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1859 [15:01:54] <Iridos> dpkg, rfp
1860 [15:01:55] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
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1863 [15:02:10] <Iridos> google77, ^^^
1864 [15:02:29] <google77> thx
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1952 [15:41:40] <maddawg2> hey all trying to install debian from the netinstall and just had a question about 8.5
1953 [15:41:58] <maddawg2> seems when i start it up the boot menu has an option for "install" and "64-bit install"
1954 [15:42:09] <maddawg2> i assume just by clicking install it only installs debian 32-bit?
1955 [15:42:12] <maddawg2> is that correct/
1956 [15:42:13] <maddawg2> ?
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1962 [15:44:56] <zykotick9> maddawg2: that is correct (with the multiarch netinst anyways - one that is linked in top right corner of debian.org)
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1975 [15:50:25] <maddawg2> gotcha thanks
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1977 [15:51:43] <BadCodSmell> I have a script like so: #!/bin/bash\ncommand1;apt-get install package;command2, however command 2 never runs. What can cause this?
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1981 [15:52:38] <jelly> BadCodSmell: does the last line of the script end with a \n ?
1982 [15:52:48] <ChrisH> BadCodSmell: I would recommend to run the scipt like bash -xv ./script
1983 [15:53:19] <jelly> (it should, but bad editors sometimes let you have the last line not end up with \n delimiter)
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1985 [15:53:26] <BadCodSmell> I just figured out what it is
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1987 [15:53:45] <BadCodSmell> I actually cat the script into a chroot just as a quick way to not worry about polluting the fs
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1989 [15:54:02] <BadCodSmell> like cat script.sh | chroot dir /bin/bash
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1991 [15:54:35] <BadCodSmell> I guess when apt at some stage asks about whether to use old or new conf it hijacked the stdin pipe and stops the rest of the script being delivered
1992 [15:54:35] <ChrisH> BadCodSmell: and you are sure eg. command2 has all libs there
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1995 [15:55:30] <BadCodSmell> ChrisH: it was just dying right after, event apt-get install x || echo next or && echo next would not work
1996 [15:55:38] <BadCodSmell> It has to be the piping :D
1997 [15:56:00] <BadCodSmell> Nothing else makes sense, it's trying to get userinput and breaking the pipe
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2000 [15:56:33] <BadCodSmell> I even checked the meta for the package a postinst, etc, nothing in there that would kill the pg or send a signal to it or run out of memory, etc
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2006 [15:57:29] <jelly> BadCodSmell: next time pipe it to bash -x
2007 [15:57:45] <BadCodSmell> That's one way perhaps
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2009 [15:57:48] <BadCodSmell> but really...
2010 [15:57:52] <BadCodSmell> ==> File on system created by you or by a script. ==> File also in package provided by package maintainer.
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2014 [15:58:02] <BadCodSmell> I want it to choose this automatically, not even try to go for user input
2015 [15:58:40] <jelly> BadCodSmell: /msg dpkg confold, /msg dpkg confnew
2016 [15:58:52] <BadCodSmell> I don't understand as I have --force-confdef and --force confold in apt.conf
2017 [15:59:07] <jelly> that's not valid apt.conf syntax?
2018 [15:59:07] <BadCodSmell> It shouldn't be asking from what I understand with that
2019 [15:59:23] <HaMsTeRs> anyone here with xfce installed?
2020 [15:59:30] <jelly> BadCodSmell: show your /path/to/chroot/etc/apt/apt.conf
2021 [15:59:34] <HaMsTeRs> i'm trying to change my theme, but nothing works
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2025 [16:00:05] <BadCodSmell> I also have all the set non interactive stuff set
2026 [16:00:08] <jelly> BadCodSmell: which debian release is inside the chroot?
2027 [16:00:14] <BadCodSmell> wheezy
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2032 [16:01:55] <BadCodSmell> I should have figured the pipe thing out from strace :P
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2034 [16:02:25] <BadCodSmell> Since bash seemed to be doing read(fd, buf, 1) at a time strangely rather than fetching all
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2038 [16:03:05] <BadCodSmell> Hypothetically speaking, confdef and confold should definitely stop be seeing that message normally?
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2040 [16:03:30] <Amok_Huginnsson> Hi. Does anyone know what are Debian plans regarding future of sysvinit? For how long it will be supported?
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2045 [16:04:43] <blind> So I installed the 4.6 kernel from jessie-backports and can not build fglrx against it, using the fglrx-modules-dkms from jessie-backports.. will there be a new fglrx package? Currently using 1:15.12-2~bpo8+1
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2049 [16:06:49] <jelly> BadCodSmell: there may be some more -y and -q involved, dunno. I don't know enough and you haven't shown your actual config and relevant environment.
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2055 [16:08:03] <RebelCoderW> Guys, I am missing a network icon in tray. Installed palasma-nm, but still not there. I can't connect to Wi-Fi. Ethernet works but icon is still missing
2056 [16:08:08] <RebelCoderW> what do I need to install ?
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2058 [16:08:30] <ChrisH> BadCodSmell: or you might want to consider using orchestratiuon tools like ansible to install and clean up
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2061 [16:09:30] <ChrisH> RebelCoderW: IIRC NM does only show interfaces which are configured. Does ifconfig -a show the interface? Are the needed firmware and moduyles loaded?
2062 [16:09:57] <RebelCoderW> Yes. Shows all cards correctly
2063 [16:10:02] <RebelCoderW> Ethernet is connected and works
2064 [16:10:10] <RebelCoderW> Wif-fi is enabled but icon in tray is missing
2065 [16:10:27] <RebelCoderW> I did clean install. Then Plasma desktop from terminal
2066 [16:10:34] <RebelCoderW> prob. need some package...
2067 [16:10:42] <RebelCoderW> but which one ?
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2074 [16:12:32] <BadCodSmell> ChrisH this is for building an initial image
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2076 [16:12:43] <BadCodSmell> although the rest of things might go something like ansible
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2079 [16:13:37] <ChrisH> BadCodSmell: I see :)
2080 [16:13:41] <BadCodSmell> The irony is a while ago I made something like that using node.js which is was pretty cool with a terminal lib as well.
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2082 [16:14:30] <HaMsTeRs> anyone please help
2083 [16:14:32] <HaMsTeRs> thanks
2084 [16:14:34] <HaMsTeRs> !
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2086 [16:15:41] <BadCodSmell> HaMsTeRs: DATA
2087 [16:16:14] <jim> HaMsTeRs, if you were to ask a detailed, specific, informative question...
2088 [16:16:32] <greycat> Or any question at all.
2089 [16:16:44] <jim> there is that...
2090 [16:16:51] <HaMsTeRs> i'm unable to change my XFCE theme
2091 [16:17:02] <jim> why?
2092 [16:17:06] <BadCodSmell> We need a life ring or something you can just throw at people.
2093 [16:17:08] <HaMsTeRs> the apparence manager doesn't take effect to whatever changes i made
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2095 [16:17:41] <HaMsTeRs> is there any them maanger (XFCE) can do the magic?
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2110 [16:21:41] <maddawg2> hmm netinstall had a bad mirror
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2114 [16:22:30] <maddawg2> so i select US as my mirror
2115 [16:22:39] <maddawg2> and it looks like it tries but fails
2116 [16:22:49] <ExoUNX> maddawg2 DNS correct?
2117 [16:22:56] <maddawg2> gonna try csail
2118 [16:23:02] <maddawg2> should be
2119 [16:24:11] <maddawg2> how can I tell from the boot CD if it's getting correct network settings
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2121 [16:24:44] <greycat> Once you've got that far in the install, you can press Alt-F2 to get a console and check the IPs.
2122 [16:25:46] <maddawg2> hm looks like it's retrieving now we'll see what happens
2123 [16:26:47] <maddawg2> alt+f2 didnt seem to do anything... not sure my hypervisor is passing it through tho
2124 [16:27:00] <maddawg2> prob cuz i chose the graphical install lol
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2135 [16:33:38] <RebelCoderW> clear
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2157 [16:39:37] <centrx> All clear
2158 [16:40:43] <HaMsTeRs> see, I asked my question, and no one eer care
2159 [16:40:53] <greycat> Not that we don't care. We just don't know.
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2161 [16:41:30] <RebelCoderW> prob. need some package...linux remove proxy from terminal
2162 [16:41:39] <RebelCoderW> Damn ! Wrong Keyboard
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2164 [16:43:09] <centrx> HaMsTeRs: You can try again. I didn't see your question
2165 [16:43:45] <HaMsTeRs> Thanks centrx. So, i'm running debian linux in ARM under chroot
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2167 [16:43:56] <HaMsTeRs> and I can only use root as login
2168 [16:44:05] <HaMsTeRs> so I have xfce for x
2169 [16:44:23] <HaMsTeRs> for some reasons, I'm unable to change my theme
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2171 [16:44:44] <HaMsTeRs> any settings uner apparence manager doesn't take any effect
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2175 [16:48:36] <HaMsTeRs> you can never every imagine how ugly my desktop looks now
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2196 [16:58:16] <jhutchins> HaMsTeRs: There probably isn't anybody on right now who runs xfce and has also had that problem.
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2198 [16:58:28] <jhutchins> HaMsTeRs: You should never run a GUI as root.
2199 [16:59:11] <jhutchins> HaMsTeRs: It's possible that you've created or modified configuration files in your home directory as root, and your normal user can't change them because they're owned by root now.
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2202 [16:59:26] <jhutchins> HaMsTeRs: Do you have a GUI login manager enabled?
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2271 [17:29:37] <Avernos> how can I enable journalctl to pass logs to /var/log
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2335 [17:59:04] <jmcnaught> Avernos: do you mean to syslog? This should be the default, but take a look at "man journald.conf"
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2356 [18:05:20] <Avernos> jmcnaught, currently logs are only on journald. but nothing on /var/logs
2357 [18:05:36] <Avernos> heard before that it is possible to tell journal to pass'em to /var/log
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2359 [18:06:21] <Avernos> my default is nothing on /var/log, however it is possible to tell a program to use syslog instead of journal i think. I'd like to avoid this, as i like journalctl
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2361 [18:06:34] <jmcnaught> Avernos: on jessie ForwardToSyslog=yes in journald.conf is the default
2362 [18:06:44] <Avernos> just some programs are not updated on the repos, and gotta have some /var/logs
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2364 [18:07:08] <jmcnaught> Avernos: do you have rsyslog installed?
2365 [18:07:19] <Avernos> jmcnaught, that is for a base system as well ?
2366 [18:07:54] <jmcnaught> Avernos: this is the default on Debian, at least for jessie but i don't think it's changed for stretch
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2370 [18:08:22] <jmcnaught> not sure exactly what you mean by "base system".. did you install with deboostrap. which release/distro is this for?
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2375 [18:09:28] <Avernos> ah.. i see. forgot i had a "custom" debian.. sorry
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2378 [18:10:12] <Avernos> didnt know about ForwardToSyslog=yes will check
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2381 [18:11:09] <jmcnaught> Avernos: if it's another distro you should get support in their channel because the people here won't know about the differences. Or start using regular Debian
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2385 [18:12:05] <Avernos> jmcnaught, no, its a plain jessy debian. just my provider sets up a couple of params.
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2388 [18:13:51] <jmcnaught> Avernos: ahh.. lovely when the provider makes strange undocumented changes to defaults. Take a look at that setting for journald, and if rsyslog is installed. You could also look at making journald persistent (see /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian)
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2392 [18:15:17] <Avernos> im definitely searching for another provider soon
2393 [18:15:25] <Avernos> thanks much! will look into this
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2396 [18:15:33] <jmcnaught> Avernos: good luck :)
2397 [18:15:43] <Avernos> thanks^^
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2435 [18:29:29] <bin-plymouth> Hello. I did wheezy to Jessie upgrade then dist-upgrade. Booting, it gives me the sadface and "can't recover". journalctl -xb blames it on a bin/plymouth error but none of the Google solutions are working. :(
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2440 [18:30:26] <HoloIRCUser> I want best reference book for Linux system administrator
2441 [18:30:32] <HoloIRCUser> Please help me
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2445 [18:31:24] <H4ndy> google?
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2447 [18:31:34] <bin-plymouth> systemd[529]: Failed at step EXEC spawning /bin/plymouth: No such file or directory -- Subject: Process /bin/plymouth could not be executed -- Defined-By: systemd -- Support: replaced-url
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2450 [18:32:18] <TomTomTo1> HoloIRCUser one that is relevant to Debian in particular: replaced-url
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2460 [18:36:23] <Aorious> Hello, when creating a Live USB. What is the minium sized partition required? Can it match the size of the .iso or is there need to add more space?
2461 [18:36:28] <bin-plymouth> most of the solutions I find on Google to bin/plymouth say the problem is in /etc/fstab, does anyone see anything wrong in mine? replaced-url
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2464 [18:38:11] <jhutchins> bin-plymouth: Is plymouth installed?
2465 [18:38:25] <jhutchins> bin-plymouth: Is there anything about plymouth in grub.cfg?
2466 [18:38:40] <jhutchins> bin-plymouth: (whatever config grub is using on your version)
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2470 [18:39:46] <jhutchins> bin-plymouth: Your fstab has nothing to do with it.
2471 [18:40:03] <fred1807> Somehow I messed up with ntp service on my desbian jessy (no desktop). Is there any command I can give to try to find what is happening?
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2473 [18:40:32] <jhutchins> fred1807: Ples define "messed up" - what exactly are you seeing?
2474 [18:40:52] <fred1807> we are back to 1969 (no hardware clock)
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2476 [18:41:21] <fred1807> I can ping pool.ntp.br (my current ntp server)
2477 [18:41:26] <bin-plymouth> jhutchins: apt-get install plymouth gives "the following NEW packages will be installed"
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2479 [18:42:26] <bin-plymouth> sadly dist-upgrade apparently broke my internet. maybe I need to run something to detect it?
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2484 [18:45:04] <fred1807> jhutchins: if I force my debian to ipv4 only, can this mess up with ntpd ?
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2487 [18:47:11] <bin-plymouth> jhutchins: Ok, got my net working. Should I install Plymouth?
2488 [18:47:22] <greycat> fred1807: TIAS
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2490 [18:48:21] <fred1807> greycat: my ntpd is not working, the only crucial change to my system lately was going ipv4 , but ntd used to work with that
2491 [18:48:32] <greycat> Find out *why* it's not working.
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2493 [18:48:43] <greycat> What errors does it produce?
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2495 [18:49:33] <jelly> fred1807: are you also bereft of syslog and journald?
2496 [18:49:55] <fred1807> jelly: yep
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2499 [18:50:28] <jelly> install rsyslog, reboot, see what happens with ntpd
2500 [18:50:44] <fred1807> can I install systemd-timesyncd ?
2501 [18:51:02] <jelly> can you do a root cause analysis?
2502 [18:51:15] <fred1807> I cant
2503 [18:51:23] <jelly> why not?
2504 [18:51:36] <fred1807> I dont know how
2505 [18:51:55] <bin-plymouth> nope, no "plymouth" in /etc/default/grub either, as you guessed
2506 [18:51:59] <jelly> fred1807: enable logging, see if the service in question complains about something.
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2513 [18:54:00] <jelly> fred1807: are you able to temporarily install rsyslog?
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2533 [19:03:58] <fred1807> I going to the route of removing ntp and ntpd and using systemd-timesyncd. When do I need to do?
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2537 [19:04:24] <greycat> 'because clearly that will be easier than just installing rsyslog and reading a log file'
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2539 [19:04:55] <bin-plymouth> Ok, my system boots to the sadface and journalctl is clean, now what?
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2541 [19:05:18] <fred1807> because simpler is better : replaced-url
2542 [19:05:41] <greycat> Anything that involves mucking around with non-default pieces of systemd is not "simpler" in my opinion.
2543 [19:05:52] <greycat> But good luck.
2544 [19:05:56] <jelly> !be a root cause analysis barbie
2545 [19:05:56] <dpkg> Aww, root cause analysis is HARD! Let's go shopping, jelly
2546 [19:05:57] <fred1807> what is the file timesyncd write the time to? My root in RO I need to point a symlink to a RW partition
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2553 [19:07:49] <jelly> fred1807 it's frustrating to try help a user when their goal is shifting and the knowledge required to help changes
2554 [19:07:49] <mxn> hi, not sure where to go with this question, think it's a gtk issue: my pavucontrol is unusable after i used lxappearance and gtk-chtheme
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2556 [19:08:00] <mxn> replaced-url
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2558 [19:08:19] <mxn> i was unable to reverse the changes i made, now idk how to fix it
2559 [19:08:36] <mxn> i use i3 as wm, if that is relevant
2560 [19:08:53] <mxn> on a debian that's mostly testing
2561 [19:08:55] <jelly> mxn: does this look persist after a log off and log in back?
2562 [19:09:02] <mxn> jelly: hm, let me try
2563 [19:09:04] <jelly> !debian-next
2564 [19:09:04] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2565 [19:09:07] <jelly> ^^ testing
2566 [19:09:21] <greycat> "mostly testing" is a terrifying phrase.
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2568 [19:09:31] <jelly> *mostly pregnant pause*
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2570 [19:09:52] <mxn> yep, still the same
2571 [19:10:06] <greycat> If you have mixed testing with *any* other distribution, you don't have a "mostly" anything. You have a broken frankendebian.
2572 [19:11:14] <jelly> is this a continued query? I don't see mxn mentioning anything about any _other_ distro
2573 [19:11:18] <mxn> just a handful of unstable packages, libc etc are still stretch
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2575 [19:11:34] <mxn> don't think this is related
2576 [19:12:11] <mxn> at least pavucontrol and libgtk are the same version in sid anyways
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2579 [19:12:35] <jelly> pavucontrol in stretch is gtk3, not gtk2... does gtk-chtheme deal with gtk3 these days?
2580 [19:12:59] <mxn> at least the window title of gtk-chtheme says 2.0
2581 [19:13:03] <jelly> and you probably want to ask in -next anyway, more people using stretch there
2582 [19:13:19] <mxn> maybe these changes werent even related, could be an update at the same time or whatever ;)
2583 [19:14:18] <jelly> ldd $(which gkt-chtheme) suggests it still cares about gtk2 (only?)
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2585 [19:15:09] <jelly> mind the typo.
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2587 [19:15:31] <mxn> any nice way to just reset my gtk settings to make sure they're not broken?
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2590 [19:15:48] <mxn> rm -rf .config/gtk-[23].0?
2591 [19:16:00] <greycat> I would mv rather than rm.
2592 [19:16:10] <greycat> A bit easier to undo, that way.
2593 [19:16:28] <mxn> yeah, right, mmv gtk-* gtk-*-bak
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2596 [19:17:28] <mxn> yay, back to normal.. that was easy
2597 [19:18:01] <mxn> ty everyone
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2600 [19:18:38] <jelly> greycat: who needs mv when you have BACKUPS
2601 [19:18:52] <greycat> That's why I said "easier" not "possible".
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2610 [19:22:48] <bin-plymouth> Hello. I did wheezy to Jessie upgrade then dist-upgrade. Booting, it gives me the sadface and "can't recover". journalctl -xb is clean and /var/log/messages shows nothing for hours. Please, what should I do next?
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2615 [19:26:46] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: using gnome? gnome requires a video card that supports certain opengl settings. What video card/driver are you using?
2616 [19:26:58] <L1nuxg33k> Hello everyone
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2620 [19:27:36] <greycat> Oh.. is "the sadface" a gnome thing, not a Macintosh hardware thing?
2621 [19:27:52] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: Gnome as far as I know, yes
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2623 [19:28:07] <somiaj> greycat: usually says Oh Snap! I think, or maybe that is chromium
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2625 [19:28:27] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: this appears when tyring to log into gnome or when you boot your system?
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2627 [19:28:42] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: ATI Radeon 5770, worked under Wheezy
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2629 [19:28:52] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: after boot, at login
2630 [19:29:14] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: are you using fglrx drivers?
2631 [19:29:19] <bin-plymouth> Fails both on normal and on ATI proprietary driver
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2634 [19:29:35] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: well check the Xorg.0.log if it is x that is failing
2635 [19:29:44] <L1nuxg33k> why is it that when i apt-get remove, purge, autoremove software and reinstall it, all of my config settings are the same for that particular application?
2636 [19:29:49] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: not now, and still failing. ... ok
2637 [19:30:11] <greycat> L1nuxg33k: purge removes configs; everything else you mentioned does not.
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2639 [19:30:34] <somiaj> L1nuxg33k: purge won't remove configs in a user $HOME
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2643 [19:31:38] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: I don't know what is failing, just that I get that login message
2644 [19:31:59] <L1nuxg33k> hmm...so I have to delete the config file manually?
2645 [19:32:29] <somiaj> L1nuxg33k: for configs inside the users $HOME, yes
2646 [19:32:32] <greycat> If it's a *personal* config, yes.
2647 [19:32:52] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: did you check the Xorg.0.log (still assuming it is xorg that is failing here)
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2651 [19:34:28] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: trying to. one sec...
2652 [19:34:33] <L1nuxg33k> ok so before I apt-get remove I delete config file first?
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2654 [19:34:48] <bin-plymouth> why do you think it is an xorg issue?
2655 [19:34:51] <L1nuxg33k> cause if i exec apt-get remove it deletes the config file
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2657 [19:34:53] <somiaj> L1nuxg33k: if the goal is to just reset the config files, you don't need to remove the package.
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2659 [19:35:10] <greycat> L1nuxg33k: what package are you talking about, and what config file(s)?
2660 [19:35:19] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: because of the sadface, not use to consoles giving that.
2661 [19:35:50] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: i.e. if it is a graphical error message, sounds like it is an error with your displaymanager/xorg
2662 [19:36:21] <L1nuxg33k> not any particular package, but I had deleted irssi and reinstalled it only to find the exact same settings
2663 [19:36:40] <somiaj> L1nuxg33k: as you have been told multiple times, this is because user configs are stored in $HOME
2664 [19:36:47] <greycat> So you're talking about your personal settings in ~/.irssi/
2665 [19:36:58] <greycat> Not system-wide package configs in /etc/
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2667 [19:37:22] <L1nuxg33k> somiaj: I understand that
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2671 [19:39:03] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: not sure what I should be looking for in Xorg.0, not seeing any big error messages
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2674 [19:39:29] <towo`> bin-plymouth, pste it on a pastebin
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2678 [19:42:24] <L1nuxg33k> oh I need to use clean
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2680 [19:42:31] <L1nuxg33k> or autoclean
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2682 [19:43:29] <somiaj> clean or autoclean won't mess with configs in any way
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2688 [19:45:22] <fred1807> what is happening here? (systemctl status for rc.local) replaced-url
2689 [19:45:39] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: replaced-url
2690 [19:45:54] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: even if using the 'radeon' driver you may need to install firmware-linux-nonfree to get the required 3D support
2691 [19:46:16] <greycat> Looks like something in your rc.local exited with status 126, which brings the entire thing to a screeching halt, because SOME FUCKING IDIOT IN DEBIAN put -e in the shebang line.
2692 [19:46:30] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: towo` replaced-url
2693 [19:47:10] *** Joins: kiao2938 (~mj@replaced-ip )
2694 [19:47:12] <greycat> (Also your system clock was wrong at the time rc.local ran, but you knew that.)
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2714 [19:52:37] <fred1807> hehe that shebang line on rc.local was really something to catch noobs like me I guess
2715 [19:53:31] <PryMar56> fred1807, the `sh -e` ?
2716 [19:53:44] <fred1807> yeah, what a terrible idea
2717 [19:53:56] <PryMar56> then your bootup hangs
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2721 [19:54:47] <simbalion> Can jessie boot on a 3.2 kernel?
2722 [19:54:48] <fred1807> greycat: okay to /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh for a couple of personal script on rc.local right?
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2724 [19:55:45] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: thanks. firmware-linux-nonfree is not fixing it though
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2726 [19:56:34] <somiaj> simbalion: why not use the 3.16 kernel with jessie? If you need 3.2 any reason you don't just run wheezy-lts?
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2730 [19:57:15] <simbalion> somiaj: I intend to, but my vps isn't booting and I tried going back to the 3.2 kernel it was built with and it still doesn't boot so I'm uncertain if it's a kernel issue or what
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2734 [19:58:38] <evanvarvell> ...
2735 [19:58:52] <somiaj> simbalion: so you upgraded from wheezy->jessie on a vm and now it won't boot?
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2738 [19:59:21] <simbalion> I upgraded months ago but rebooted with a new kernel for the first time yesterday, and it won't boot.
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2740 [19:59:24] <somiaj> bin-plymouth: try a blank user, create a new user maybe add it to the video/audio group, and then login as that user. (this will check to see that it isn't some issue with your personal config files causing the issue)
2741 [19:59:51] <somiaj> simbalion: jessie uses systemd, so going that long without booting into using systemd may have caused a problem, but I would look there vs kernel
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2743 [20:00:19] <simbalion> somiaj: it hangs on "A start job is running for LSB: Raise network interf..."
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2745 [20:00:38] <somiaj> simbalion: replaced-url
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2747 [20:00:49] <somiaj> simbalion: yea sounds like you have some old sysvinit scripts that aren't funcitoning right with systemd.
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2750 [20:01:47] <simbalion> somiaj: thanks I bet that's it
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2775 [20:09:03] <greycat> simbalion: yes, jessie can run on a wheezy (3.2) kernel, and I had to do this on my 64 MB i386 machine.
2776 [20:09:30] <greycat> It runs out of memory on the later jessie kernels, though it *used* to work on the 8.0 jessie kernel.
2777 [20:10:19] <simbalion> somiaj: booted into a 'recovery kernel' so I can fix this, and when mounting it says "error: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional features", then mounts anyway
2778 [20:10:25] <simbalion> greycat: thanks
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2788 [20:14:17] <greycat> As far as #!/bin/bash on rc.local or on scripts launched from it -- sure. Whatever floats your boat.
2789 [20:14:39] <greycat> I wouldn't *recommend* using bashisms in rc.local itself, but in scripts run from it I would consider it fair game.
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2797 [20:17:41] <jelly> greycat: was that jessie on 3.2 using sysvinit or systemd?
2798 [20:17:47] <greycat> systemd
2799 [20:17:51] <bin-plymouth> somiaj: I did try adding a user, but I can't even attempt a graphical login no matter what
2800 [20:17:55] <greycat> (still is, not 'was')
2801 [20:17:58] <bin-plymouth> I am just screwed
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2821 [20:25:49] <simbalion> is there a ls command to list only directories?
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2823 [20:26:05] <kripx> and file
2824 [20:26:05] <greycat> ls -d */
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2834 [20:29:00] <MisterGadfly> Does someone why terminusmodx's icons won't show?
2835 [20:29:18] <MisterGadfly> They worked in archlinux, but now on debian they come up garbled
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2844 [20:33:45] <simbalion> I tried to create /etc/default/bootlogd with BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=yes in it but I dunno if it did anything, I dont see a boot log in /var/log
2845 [20:34:20] <greycat> In wheezy?
2846 [20:34:26] <simbalion> jessie
2847 [20:34:33] <greycat> Jessie uses journalctl instead.
2848 [20:34:39] <jhutchins> ,v terminusmodx
2849 [20:34:40] <judd> No package named 'terminusmodx' was found in amd64.
2850 [20:34:53] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: Did you install this from Debian sources?
2851 [20:35:01] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: no
2852 [20:35:05] <simbalion> greycat: where can I find the log?
2853 [20:35:18] <greycat> type "journalctl"
2854 [20:35:21] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: from here replaced-url
2855 [20:35:34] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: So there's the rough answer, not a Debian package.
2856 [20:35:35] <simbalion> greycat: It's a non booting system I don't have full command access
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2858 [20:35:48] <greycat> ... (as root)
2859 [20:35:51] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: Now the question is how to modify the source to install properly in Debian.
2860 [20:36:08] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: Did you build a deb package or just configure/make/make install?
2861 [20:36:32] <greycat> simbalion: then I guess you get to read what's printed on the console
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2863 [20:36:45] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: I manually copied the files the way the README described
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2866 [20:37:23] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: the standard characters show, but the icons for battery, memory and stuff don't
2867 [20:37:26] <fred1807> if I install htpdate packege, will I end up with a oncurrency of time daemons?
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2873 [20:40:05] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: Did you install it the same way on arch, or from an arch package?
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2875 [20:40:28] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: arch package in the AUR
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2877 [20:41:10] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: the steps to package it replaced-url
2878 [20:41:15] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: My guess (and only that) would be that it requires some additional package or library. You could look more carefully at what arch installs with the font file, and what else the arch package might do.
2879 [20:41:38] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: You could also contact whatver support the project has and see if they know what it needs.
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2882 [20:42:21] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: Chances of finding someone else who's had and has solved the problem are pretty slim on irc, there might be forums that talk about it.
2883 [20:42:37] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: I'm starting to lose hope already :D
2884 [20:42:45] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: I'm sure the project would appreciate being able to document how to use it with Debian.
2885 [20:43:08] <jhutchins> MisterGadfly: It just depends on how much effort you want to put into it. You could learn a lot.
2886 [20:43:58] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: it's kinda abandoned
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2889 [20:46:44] <MisterGadfly> jhutchins: thanks nonetheless
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2921 [21:04:14] <d3lphi> hi all. Every few seconds I get lots of messages in /var/log/syslog like that " kernel: [ 2202.657678] netlink: 4 bytes leftover after parsing attributes." my log is flooded with these lines. What does that mean, where does it come from and how can I mitigate it ? any help appreciated
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2923 [21:05:04] <jhutchins> d3lphi: Do you have a firewall enabled?
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2925 [21:05:24] <d3lphi> jhutchins: not that I'm aware of. "iptables -L" doesnt produce any output
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2929 [21:08:01] <jhutchins> d3lphi: Probably generated by your NIC driver. WIred or wifi?
2930 [21:08:12] <d3lphi> wired
2931 [21:08:26] <d3lphi> jhutchins: weird
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2933 [21:08:34] <tuxopenwrt> i accidentally did cat .iso /dev/sdb and now i cant write to usb as the /dev/sdb is 10M 0% free
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2936 [21:08:58] <tuxopenwrt> how to reclaim
2937 [21:09:30] <jhutchins> tuxopenwrt: You should be able to overwrite it, or format it with parted.
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2940 [21:10:24] <tuxopenwrt> you mean /dev/sdb
2941 [21:10:43] <tuxopenwrt> or the usb
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2948 [21:14:18] <simbalion> Can someone help me fix this booting issue? I'm stuck
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2951 [21:15:14] <mayhew> simbalion: what's the issue?
2952 [21:16:48] <simbalion> mayhew: I upgraded from wheezy to jessie on this digital ocean droplet 8 months ago, I rebooted it for the first time today and it does not boot. it hangs at "raise network interface".
2953 [21:17:05] <simbalion> I can access it from a 'recovery kernel' but have very limited commands available
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2959 [21:18:02] <simbalion> I thought maybe it was squid causing problems cause there's something in /var/log/messages about squid just before the log ends, so I removed squid from /etc/init.d and that did not fix it
2960 [21:18:16] <simbalion> there's nothing else in messages and I can't find a boot log so I'm stuck
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2963 [21:19:10] <simbalion> mayhew: someone suggested it may be an init issue but I dont know where to look or what to change
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2965 [21:19:52] <simbalion> mayhew: I mean, that stuff should have been changed during the upgrade anyway.. web searches for this issue have turned up nothing so I'm presuming it doesn't happen often
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2973 [21:25:51] <mayhew> I'm not too sure.. Did you reboot it when you first upgraded to jessie?
2974 [21:25:59] <simbalion> no
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2978 [21:27:27] <mayhew> Yeah that's a mistake right there. You should be rebooting semi-regularly to apply kernel updates anyways. Especially for an OS update like that. You have backups right?
2979 [21:27:48] <simbalion> mayhew: no kidding :p
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2982 [21:28:02] <simbalion> I've got backups from last week. I'd rather not use them because I made a ton of changes in the past week
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2984 [21:28:13] <simbalion> It should be a simple fix
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2997 [21:33:18] <simbalion> the last line of /var/log/dmesg is nf_conntrack version 0.5.0, I think that is where it hangs
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3002 [21:34:24] <mayhew> well it sounds like a systemd problem to me, that was the major change between wheezy and jessie
3003 [21:34:29] <mayhew> simbalion: replaced-url
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3011 [21:37:05] <simbalion> mayhew: it's a networking issue whatever it is, I removed networking from /etc/init.d and it booted
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3016 [21:39:58] <jhutchins> simbalion: nf_contrack is a firewall/IPTABLES thing.
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3023 [21:42:22] <simbalion> I've made progress, if I do /etc/init.d/networking start it says no such file
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3030 [21:44:45] <verrlara> Hi...
3031 [21:44:49] <verrlara> umm
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3034 [21:44:59] <verrlara> Is there a good webui for mpd?
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3036 [21:46:26] <mayhew> simbalion: /quit
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3045 [21:49:19] <simbalion> ah I may have fixed it, I created a script in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/ which was trying to access a non-existent directory
3046 [21:49:27] <greycat> good find
3047 [21:49:48] <simbalion> hrm it's still hanging, but I think it's related to that script so I'm gonna try disabling it next
3048 [21:49:51] <greycat> I figured it had to be something unique to your system, not a general problem, because nobody else has ever run into it.
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3051 [21:50:15] <simbalion> greycat: yeah my thoughts too
3052 [21:50:19] <jhutchins> verrlara: mpd being which? Multilink PPP Daemon?
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3054 [21:50:39] <jelly> that'd be mpppd!
3055 [21:50:42] <verrlara> jhutchins: Music Player Daemon
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3057 [21:51:21] <verrlara> I am trying to make a personal streaming service for myself.
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3059 [21:51:48] <jhutchins> Valdebrick: Lots: replaced-url
3060 [21:52:04] <jhutchins> verrlara: replaced-url
3061 [21:52:10] <jhutchins> Stupid keyboard.
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3064 [21:53:09] <jhutchins> verrlara: aptitude search mpd shows several.
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3070 [21:57:06] <verrlara> I see regular clients but I am not seeing a web ui
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3072 [21:57:47] <verrlara> I guess I will just have to use icecast. But I had hoped there was a mpd specific interface.
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3093 [22:04:48] <simbalion> Hrm, I did an iptables --flush and now sudo hangs, why would that be?
3094 [22:05:03] <greycat> Coincidence?
3095 [22:05:13] <simbalion> I don't think so..
3096 [22:05:40] <greycat> I can't think of any relationship between iptables and sudo, unless your sudo is being issues over a network connection.
3097 [22:06:10] <simbalion> I got an email saying can't resolve the domain name, I wonder if that's related
3098 [22:06:31] <jhutchins> verboese: I would guess that some of those clients would work over a network, but not sure which are web based. It would take the hard work of adding a term to the google search for "mpd client".
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3100 [22:06:51] <greycat> he left.
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3103 [22:07:00] <jhutchins> verboese: Bad enought I can't type, people don't stick around!
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3115 [22:11:06] <greycat> Was it "sudo some command that looks up domain names"?
3116 [22:11:20] <simbalion> greycat: nope just sudo su
3117 [22:11:41] <greycat> Gah, why do people keep doing that.... "sudo -i" or "sudo bash".
3118 [22:12:04] <simbalion> the email complained it can't resolve domain.net, /etc/hosts had 127.0.0.1 localhost domain, but did not have domain.net so I added it, dunno if that matters or not
3119 [22:12:14] <simbalion> greycat: why does it matter?
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3121 [22:12:31] <greycat> It's pointless to run both sudo *and* su.
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3123 [22:12:52] <greycat> it would be like running sh -c 'sh -c "a command"'
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3127 [22:13:07] <simbalion> greycat: redundant maybe, pointless no, the point was to get a root prompt. it works so it's a valid method, unless there's some good reason not to
3128 [22:13:12] <greycat> sudo -i
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3130 [22:13:24] <simbalion> that's the same number of keypresses
3131 [22:13:36] <simbalion> and the hyphen is a longer stretch for the fingers
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3138 [22:13:48] <simbalion> I mean, if we're gonna weigh the options ;)
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3140 [22:14:05] <greycat> Anyway, I don't know if either of those would do a domain name lookup. sudoers config is confusing as hell to me and I can't even figure out what's possible. I suppose either one could do NIS lookups if you're on NIS, but that shouldn't use DNS because the ypclient should already have done it.
3141 [22:14:08] <jelly> useless use of cat^H^H^Hsu
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3144 [22:14:29] <simbalion> greycat: yeah I have no idea why it was trying to lookup anything
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3146 [22:14:43] <simbalion> it was doing it for any sudo command, I tried a few to test
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3150 [22:15:26] <vook> sudo -i gives you a log-in shell for root, reads rc files, etc. sudo su does not
3151 [22:15:28] <greycat> is your sudoers configured to check hostnames somehow?
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3154 [22:15:48] <jelly> sudoers can have host-specific syntax; permissions may or may not be available depending on the host it's running on
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3156 [22:16:05] <simbalion> vook: that's a good reason I suppose, but I never use root for anything so I don't have any shell stuff configured
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3158 [22:16:42] <vook> either way, they aren't equivs, sudo -i = sudo su -
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3160 [22:16:46] <simbalion> all this trouble because I want to block china and australia from my server
3161 [22:17:06] <jelly> vook: that'd be sudo -l
3162 [22:17:17] <simbalion> personally I prefer to never use root because sudo is logged
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3165 [22:17:24] <greycat> jelly: no, sudo -i is --login
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3167 [22:17:40] <jelly> greycat: oh that's just silly
3168 [22:17:53] <greycat> so is host-specific stuff in /etc/sudoers
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3170 [22:18:09] <vook> the -i means interactive if I'm not mistaken
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3173 [22:18:27] <jhutchins> vook: In any case it has the effect of a root shell.
3174 [22:18:30] <greycat> -i, --login Run the shell specified by the target user's password data- base entry as a login shell.
3175 [22:18:42] <vook> jhutchins: yes, I understand.
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3180 [22:19:15] <vook> greycat: ...If no command is specified, an interactive shell is executed.
3181 [22:19:25] <greycat> whereas "sudo su" means "switch my effective UID to root, then switch my effective UID to root, then do something" and "something" just happens to be "run a shell"
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3183 [22:20:05] <jelly> greycat: I particularly love going thru PAM twice, with possibly different configs
3184 [22:20:10] <greycat> Indeed.
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3186 [22:20:34] <jelly> they really ought to "sudo exec su -"
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3193 [22:24:08] <jhutchins> In all systems I've used where sudo was implemented, I have tried to issue individual commands via sudo, but I've always ended up in a root shell. I just don't have the patience.
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3196 [22:24:49] <greycat> I'll sometimes do the individual-sudo-commands thing. Depends on how much work is to be done, and whether any of it involves files in a directory where only root can tab-complete the filenames.
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3198 [22:27:57] <simbalion> I use sudo so much that I use it at root prompts by mistake
3199 [22:28:03] <jelly> our devs and system analysts are very happy with limited sudo access to just restart their own crap, or just mount their own crap
3200 [22:28:04] <simbalion> it's just second nature now
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3217 [22:38:25] <jhutchins> jelly: Yeah, it can be very useful in a restricted environment.
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3251 [22:50:54] <jhutchins> As for sudo su - logging: su[11937]: pam_unix(su:session): session opened for user root by jhutchins <- totally redundant.
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3253 [22:51:28] <jhutchins> So unless you're restricting it to and using it for individual commands, it's pointless.
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3255 [22:52:04] <greycat> It's one of those bad habits that catch on and are incredibly hard to stamp out.
3256 [22:52:05] <jelly> well, 15 years back sudo did not have -i
3257 [22:52:17] <greycat> you could still have done sudo bash like a regular person would do
3258 [22:52:27] <jelly> and "sudo su -" is shorter than "sudo bash -l"
3259 [22:52:36] <dTal> I always do sudo -s
3260 [22:52:38] <dTal> am I wrong
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3263 [22:53:14] <jelly> and maybe root's login shell isn't bash
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3369 [23:24:19] <piercedwater> i came from osx to debian and couldnt be happier....i use gnome 3 with piles of extensions
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3376 [23:26:37] <mastr_bennett[x]> piercedwater: really? why?
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3379 [23:26:55] <piercedwater> i wasnt happy with the direction they were taking upgrade ability on their hw
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3381 [23:27:21] <piercedwater> soldiering things in and what not
3382 [23:27:27] <mastr_bennett[x]> mmkay. I feel you on that one.
3383 [23:27:29] <piercedwater> but yeah
3384 [23:27:40] <mastr_bennett[x]> so you went to windows machines w/ linux then?
3385 [23:27:52] <piercedwater> ?
3386 [23:27:59] <mastr_bennett[x]> s/machines/laptops
3387 [23:28:17] <piercedwater> mmm i guess you could put it that way
3388 [23:28:25] <piercedwater> linux on windows hw, yeah
3389 [23:28:57] <piercedwater> what would some other options have been?
3390 [23:28:59] <mastr_bennett[x]> which laptop vendor+model did you go with?
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3392 [23:29:24] <piercedwater> well i didn't buy a new laptop, i just moved to an HP Envy 700-74 and installed Debian
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3394 [23:29:36] <piercedwater> desktop unit
3395 [23:30:12] <mastr_bennett[x]> piercedwater: you could have stuck with a version of mac hardware that was still upgradable (that's what I did)
3396 [23:30:18] <piercedwater> ahh
3397 [23:30:26] <piercedwater> true
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3399 [23:30:37] <mastr_bennett[x]> or put linux on your mac (also did that: replaced-url
3400 [23:30:51] <zinx> there are companies that make linux laptops :/
3401 [23:31:09] <jelly> and there are companies that make decent laptops
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3403 [23:31:27] <piercedwater> i opted for selling at good price to a buddy
3404 [23:31:56] <mastr_bennett[x]> zinx: when I pay for a laptop i want perfection. that's why i've stuck with macs. trackpad needs to be perfect, and i've yet to find that on any windows machine let alone linux.
3405 [23:32:00] <zinx> mastr_bennett[x]: i don't think sticking with an upgradable mac is going to work for very long :)
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3408 [23:32:36] <mastr_bennett[x]> zinx: true. I'm looking to "upgrade" this year and have been looking at new macs and new Dell's that come with ubuntu
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3410 [23:32:54] <jelly> mastr_bennett[x]: any laptop without a trackpoint is, by definition, imperfect
3411 [23:33:18] <mastr_bennett[x]> trackPAD, not trackpoint
3412 [23:33:32] <mastr_bennett[x]> that lenovo/ibm trackpoint thing is absolute trash.
3413 [23:33:45] <jelly> /cs kick mastr_bennett[x]
3414 [23:33:46] *** mastr_bennett[x] is now known as mastr_bennett[_]
3415 [23:33:56] <zinx> not a fan of nipples on laptops/keyboards myself
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3422 [23:38:07] <jhutchins> I had a boss who bought that apple line for a while - until he realized that their hardware changes just as often as anybody else's.
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3431 [23:40:51] <jhutchins> I don't think it's accurate to call it "windows hardware" any more, given that there are systems that ship with Linux, and a HUGE number of servers that are running some form of *nix on i86 hardware.
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